California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

@farmerman,

Saying it only involves the USA and Christianity is another one of your red herrings to avoid facts . Are there any Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Shamanists, Taoists, Confucianists, Shintoists, etc in the USA ? What about atheists ? Are there any people in the world who have one man one woman marriage ?

Will the USA be pressuring other nations to follow suit like its Libbies did ? Will the USA sneeze and the world will catch cold ?

Why is it you understand nothing ? How can I get it through your thick skull that if the problem is legal recognition than marriage has nothing to do with it . It is simply a way of getting the legal recognition, and if that is all that is required then it should be separated from marriage . Dont you think there might be heterosexuals in the same position ? But they dont want to get married they just want legal protection ? I havent found you in a topic where you can participate . You bluff, confuse, obfuscate and lie .

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You are totally unqualified to render an opinion about geology

Why do you not see how that applies to you ?

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I dont think you are really as dumb as you come off.

Unfortunately I have every reason to believe you are as dumb as you seem .

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Are you just afraid of gays?

Well I must be...if I am not in favour of trying to ram something down the throats of millions of people then it must be because I am scared of gays.... Very Happy

of course it never occurred to you a diplomatic solution could be found.... very few solutions ever appear in the bottom of a bottle .

I bet you think of homosexuals, male and female, as having no discernible differences with heterosexuals . And your fear of religion really needs therapy .

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@farmerman,

The main purpose of marriage is to recognise the children born between the partners of that marriage . Will Julian and Simone be taking it in turns to get pregnant ?

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Maybe thats why the Australian doesnt get anything herein

OMG ! A USAn under attack ! Rally round the flag, boys ! Remember the Little Big Horn !

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@spendius,

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I'm happy to report that my posts are thumbed down before being read.

Yeah, we are not as liked as Gomer... militant hamsters are at work .

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@RexRed,

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Today's Christians want to revise Christianity to fit their fearful outlandish hatreds.

Would you be happy if I said "Today's Homosexuals want to revise homosexuality to fit their fearful outlandish hatreds". How many Christians do you think are like that ? I would hate to think of you as religophobic .

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@Ionus,

I might add another point, You seriously need some psychiatric attention ANUS. Im talkin several days a week, if not full institutionalization.

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It is simply a way of getting the legal recognition

BOy ,That wasnt so hard now was it? maybe you arent as dumb as an ox, not much smarter, but no dumber. Its not A way, its the ONLY way ANUS. Think about, how does a minority enjoy full recognition and equal rights? By conferral of a legal status as a class. If this is already taken care of in Australia, dont be a schmuck and deny the movement towards equal rights in our country.

Actually, the majority of your post is gibberish and makes little sense. But Ill hang in to see if you can think independently

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Saying it only involves the USA and Christianity is another one of your red herrings to avoid facts

Your reading comp skills are also in doubt . You seem not to get things written in simple declarative sentences.

WHAT FARMERMAN ACTUALLY SAID

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In your mind. Youve pointed out NOTHING. You show me where, in the US the huge lobby of Hindu or Dukhaborian government. The US is , unfortunately underpinned by the major religions of "The Book" To fail to see this just continuously reinforces how little you understand about US customs, laws, and social structure.

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@farmerman,

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I might add another point

It would be best if you made a first point first .

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Actually, the majority of your post is gibberish and makes little sense.

How to do buttons up makes little sense to you... we await progress before moving onto tying shoelaces .

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It is simply a way of getting the legal recognition
BOy ,That wasnt so hard now was it?

It was very hard . You had no understanding of what was involved . Having got you to agree it is only the legality that is required, we will now move on to ask you why does it have to be called marriage ? We have many heterosexual couples living as defacto... the whole system needs legal structure rather than the hairs it has all over it now .

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You seem not to get things written in simple declarative sentences.

If I had your arrogance at 50 cents a gallon of spirits I probably would tell the world what to think...but we have you for that... you little alcoholic rock collector you... Drunk

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its the ONLY way

Is that the sort of declarative sentence you are talking about ? " I AM DA LRAW" (apologies to Judge Dred) and a geo... a legend in his own mind .

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Saying it only involves the USA and Christianity is another one of your red herrings to avoid facts

Your reading comp skills are also in doubt . You seem not to get things written in simple declarative sentences.

WHAT GOMER THE TURD ACTUALLY SAID

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In your mind. Youve pointed out NOTHING. You show me where, in the US the huge lobby of Hindu or Dukhaborian government. The US is , unfortunately underpinned by the major religions of "The Book" To fail to see this just continuously reinforces how little you understand about US customs, laws, and social structure.

And you cant see how you are blaming Christianity in the USA... God but you are one pathetically stupid drunk .

Gomer the turd must seek help...for alcoholism, low self esteem, delusions of grandeur, and the use of a spell checker (but not bi-polar disorder) .

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@Ionus,

Time for your morning dose of heroin ANUS, youve become a cartoon of some strung out grunt.

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@farmerman,

Go count your rock collection, but dont forget to get drunk first .

Gomer the turd must seek help...for alcoholism, low self esteem, delusions of grandeur, and the use of a spell checker (but not bi-polar disorder) .

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

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Today's Christians want to revise Christianity to fit their fearful outlandish hatreds.
Would you be happy if I said "Today's Homosexuals want to revise homosexuality to fit their fearful outlandish hatreds". How many Christians do you think are like that ? I would hate to think of you as religophobic .

If Jesus was a homosexual Then Judas would be the model of today's backstabbing Christians. Today's Christians would no more worship Jesus if he was here than Judas did.

All men are supposed love the Christian male deity with all their heart, mind, soul and strength aren't they?

If Jesus was gay wouldn't that make God gay too? Thus Judas' tirade is certainly parallel to the homophobic tirades we witness by so called Christians.

The story of Jesus was designed to show empathy in society for those downtrodden by bullies and high minded hypocrites who judge without grace and punish without mercy.

Matthew 23:4
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Matthew 11:28
Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

THAT is the Christian heart, The Christian heart is NOT, kick them out, ostracize them, make them feel worthless, sinful, shameful, unloved, unwanted, untollerated, carrying signs saying, "GOD HATES YOU!". (The Gospel according to Matthew Shepherd).

If that is Christianity then it sure needs rewriting. The new testament is supposed to be exactly that, the new law or torah. If it differs none from the old torah then it certainly is not "new"...

Can you tell me how the new testament differs from the old law if it is actually new then if it does not differ then what is so good about the news?

Jesus comes and dies in vain and nothing is changed halleluiah! (cynical)

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Comment: How many Christians today would help Jesus wash the feet of some fisherman while dresses in their Sunday best?

Today's sinless perfect Christians would look at this dirty God/man and say get a job you loser! They would be writing bills for congress as they do to see if they could take away his universal healthcare (no oil to anoint you you bum!) and no comfort either for those in his flock... and they would steal the bread off the table and say you did not work to earn this so go hungry you filthy beggars!

It is the democrats who passed healthcare remember? While the tea party and republicans chided them railing on them calling them lewd and defamatory racist and inhumane names. Hateful names that even the curses in the Bible are tame compared to these. Damn and dung are about the worst curses in the Bible.

Jesus said the rich would find it impossible to enter into heaven but the christian right has sucked right up to big business and would do anything in their power to deny the old and the poor social services.

If word got out that Jesus was seen with a half naked young man they would crucify him afresh. As Christians and Muslims who both would rather homosexuals just die. Was Jesus really crucified because he claimed to be the son of God?

"Friend of publicans and sinners" but Jesus would also be despised by republicans.

The republicans are friend to publicans too! But only the publicans who tax the poor but they offer not comfort for those who expect the rich to pay their taxes too!

Liberals do not necessarily hate the religious they hate what the religious have done to the message of Jesus. Rightly so...

Jesus lived with only the shirt on his back and a pair of sandals.... much like the protesters camped outside the Wisconsin capital building.

While the smug republicans in their tailor made suits living in million dollar mansions plot to silence the poor and heap grievous labor laws upon them and their children leaving them no rights to bargain for their own meager prosperity. It is no wonder that Jesus refused to speak at his trial.

Again...
Matthew 11:28
Then Jesus said, "Come to me, all of you who are weary and carry heavy burdens, and I will give you rest.

Comment: It is time to vote these dogmatic vipers out of our government and allow the people's voice to once more resound in liberty, social prosperity and freedom.

If they get into office and start acting like republicans recall them...

Freedom and liberty is the new testament message not what the religious right has done with Jesus' message. Jesus rebuked the rich lawyers pushing their hateful right wing laws, and the hypocritical money lenders, pious priests, scribes and pharisees of his day just as we need to do. So who is really christian and who is anti christian?

THE OTHER LAZARUS STORY
(there are two different guys in the book of John named Lazarus.)

Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day. A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his bosom. He cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame."

But Abraham said, "Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in the same way, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish. Besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us."

He said, "I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house; for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won't also come into this place of torment."

But Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them."

He said, "No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent."

He said to him, "If they don't listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead."

– Luke 16:19–31, World English Bible

Where are the republicans symbolically in this story? IN HELL...

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@RexRed,

Rex may I recommend a book ?

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Jesus the Man: New Interpretations from the Dead Sea Scrolls is a 1993 book written by the Australian biblical scholar and theologian Barbara Thiering. Using a technique that the author calls "pesher", she purports to have uncovered evidence that effectively contradicts the biblical story, which she calls the "surface meaning" ("for 'babes'"), regarding the nature of Jesus and his mission. The book has primarily received scepticism by the scholarly community.
The central thesis of the book is that "Jesus was the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He was not of virgin birth. He did not die on the Cross. He married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He died sometime after AD 64"

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If Jesus was gay wouldn't that make God gay too?

Only if Jesus was God and sexuality was somehow in God's nature... but then why would he have heterosexuals ?

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The story of Jesus was designed to show empathy in society for those downtrodden by bullies and high minded hypocrites who judge without grace and punish without mercy.

Definitely .

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Can you tell me how the new testament differs from the old law

Previously the law was followed and you went to heaven . The new testament is about no one went to heaven until Jesus died as he died for our sins . By believing in God and having faith we can now go to heaven .

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Was Jesus really crucified because he claimed to be the son of God?

The short answer, yes. The son of god was a common acronym for the ruler...several Roman Emperors and before that Greek Rulers had the accolade . In the case of Jesus it was about his claim to be High Priest, a title he was not allowed because he was the legitimate King of the Jews, a title usurped by Herod . The long answer I wont go into, but will quickly say it involves the murder of some Roman soldiers in Jerusalem .

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@RexRed,

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If Jesus was a homosexual Then Judas would be the model of today's backstabbing Christians.

You have an uphill task in winning friends and influencing people if you continue with that sort of tripe. There are 160 million adult Christians in the US. I can't imagine many of them lining up for your promotion if you talk about them like that.

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Jesus comes and dies in vain and nothing is changed halleluiah! (cynical)

That's not cynical. It's utterly stupid seeing as how Jesus founded your world. And it isn't going to win you a lot of friends either. I'm beginning to wonder whether you are working for the other side and trying to make homosexuals sound ridiculous. I imagine there are plenty of sites from which somebody doing that could get words and ideas from.

You're on the wrong tack. You're the future you should be saying. Women/Men are disgusting creatures and always up to no good. Join the LGBT community and avoid having to listen to endless conversations about "my operations and general medical conditions" or " am I not one great guy or am I?" for the rest of your short life. We have Funfun. Our clubs are vibrating, dynamic hubs of convivial conversation and we do not give a flying **** whether you let us get married or not. Suit yourselves you old fuddie-duddies and continue with your once a month seven-minuters and traipsing round the shops holding ******* hands.

The modern world has produced two sexes both of which are not fit for purpose from the other's point of view. There's a price to be paid for having majored in too many 'ologies. We have people strategically placed in all the institutions of society and joining us gets you straight in at the bottom no matter if unemployment is 20%.

That's what I would be saying if I was on your case. Laugh some sense into them. Pull the stunt T.S. Eliot pulled on English intellectuals. And forget about wearing jeans. Take a leaf out of George Melly's book. And that Crisp guy. This melting into the background style signifies a sense of guilt.

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@RexRed,

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Can you tell me how the new testament differs from the old law if it is actually new then if it does not differ then what is so good about the news?

It was as new as new gets. The New Testament was concerned with the story of the Son of God sent to earth to atone for Adam's defiance of God's Will which caused the dislocation between reason and desire, what with Eve being such an enchanting temptress, and this dislocation the human race needed to be saved from presumably because if it wasn't God would be ashamed of what He had created. The Good Tidings, obviously subversive to leaders who owed their position to the dislocation and didn't wish it to be corrected, or healed, and how they are embraced in each individual, is the subject matter of the New Testament. Fully revolutionary. Cut off from recorded history like a fish-head cut off with an axe. All other tidings were in the service of the dislocation and thus in the service of man's continual sufferings. To discredit Jesus being in the same service.

The Old Testament is a historical record of an economic and spiritual warfare between various tribes situated in the region bounded, mainly, by what we now call Asia Minor, Damascus, Baghdad and northern Egypt fading out gradually until coming up against a physical barrier such as a desert, an ocean and a mountain range. Almost entirely agricultural. It contains the germ of the Good Tidings along with plentious examples of the dislocation which are what anti-Christians selectively focus on. Or jump on as a hungry dog does on a bone.

If one were to say that it is worth waging war to find a solution to mankind's continuous suffering you might be able to see that the war was fought successfully by comparing how you live now with how the contemporaries of Jesus lived. Which was more or less a waking nightmare.

My caricature description of the difference between the OT and the NT is all this format allows so it will have to do. Anybody who wishes to question it should know that I'm all ears.

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@RexRed,

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Jesus said the rich would find it impossible to enter into heaven but the christian right has sucked right up to big business and would do anything in their power to deny the old and the poor social services.

Jesus did not say it impossible, just that it would be very hard. All men (and women) can get into heaven, even rich people. It was not meant to be taken literally, but rather like the saying of taking the tree out your eye before taking the speck out the other guys eye.

The camel and the eye of the needle', Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25

If this discussion was over in the religious section I might get further into the idea of Jesus and homosexuality. I think it is sufficient to say that Jesus "did not come into the world to destroy the law but to fulfill the law" and leave it at that.

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From AP:

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SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge on Tuesday upheld a gay judge's ruling to strike down California's same-sex marriage ban.

..Chief U.S. District Judge James Ware said former Chief Judge Vaughn Walker did not have to divulge whether he wanted to marry his own gay partner before he declared last year that voter-approved Proposition 8 was unconstitutional. [Read ruling .pdf]

Lawyers for backers of the ban argued at a hearing Monday that Walker should have recused himself or disclosed his relationship because he and his partner stood to personally benefit from the verdict.

Walker publicly revealed after he retired in February that he is in a 10-year relationship with a man. Rumors that he was gay had circulated before and after he presided over the trial in early 2010.

Ware said the ruling by Walker, who did not attend Monday's hearing, raised important questions and called it the first case in which a judge's same-sex relationship had led to calls for disqualification.

He said there probably were similar struggles when race and gender were the issues.

Many legal scholars did not expect Ware to overturn Walker's decision. They said having a judge's impartiality questioned because he is gay is new territory, but efforts to get female judges thrown off gender discrimination cases or Hispanic judges removed from immigration cases have failed.

Theodore Boutrous Jr., part of the legal team representing the two gay couples who filed the lawsuit against Proposition 8, called Cooper's arguments frivolous, offensive and unfortunate. He said Walker was being targeted because he is gay.

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@revelette,

revelette wrote:

Quote:

Jesus said the rich would find it impossible to enter into heaven but the christian right has sucked right up to big business and would do anything in their power to deny the old and the poor social services.

Jesus did not say it impossible, just that it would be very hard. All men (and women) can get into heaven, even rich people. It was not meant to be taken literally, but rather like the saying of taking the tree out your eye before taking the speck out the other guys eye.

The camel and the eye of the needle', Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, Luke 18:25

If this discussion was over in the religious section I might get further into the idea of Jesus and homosexuality. I think it is sufficient to say that Jesus "did not come into the world to destroy the law but to fulfill the law" and leave it at that.

How possible is it to thread a camel through the eye of a needle?

Luke 18:25
For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Comment: Seems quite plain to me thou if you want to believe it is quite possible for a camel to be threaded through the eye of a needle to each their own...

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@RexRed,

Lilliputian land, perhaps.

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I would like to make some generalized observations. Some do not believe that gays are born gay and say that behavior cannot be coded by genetics.

Then how are most women born to prefer men and how are most men born to prefer women? Is this learned too?

For people to make the case that heterosexuality is dictated by birth and not learned then the case can also be made for homosexuality.

It is know by science that all women are bisexual but most claim to prefer males sexually.

80 percent of all men are bisexual though preferring females. 10% of males are gay and 10% of males are straight. This is genetically determined. Just as female sexuality is also genetically determined. Genetics do code for some behaviors and for one person to require a gay person to be straight is just as wrong as expecting a straight person to be gay. Nature cannot be chosen after the fact.

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The camel's hump is where the camel stores its water. One may consider that the camel hoards away its water while the desert is left parched and lifeless. Just as the rich man hoards away their money while the poor are left hungry and destitute.

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@Ionus,

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The short answer, yes. The son of god was a common acronym for the ruler...several Roman Emperors and before that Greek Rulers had the accolade . In the case of Jesus it was about his claim to be High Priest, a title he was not allowed because he was the legitimate King of the Jews, a title usurped by Herod . The long answer I wont go into, but will quickly say it involves the murder of some Roman soldiers in Jerusalem.

Very interesting reply! What was the source that you got this information from?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Rex may I recommend a book ?

Quote:
Jesus the Man: New Interpretations from the Dead Sea Scrolls is a 1993 book written by the Australian biblical scholar and theologian Barbara Thiering. Using a technique that the author calls "pesher", she purports to have uncovered evidence that effectively contradicts the biblical story, which she calls the "surface meaning" ("for 'babes'"), regarding the nature of Jesus and his mission. The book has primarily received scepticism by the scholarly community.
The central thesis of the book is that "Jesus was the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He was not of virgin birth. He did not die on the Cross. He married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He died sometime after AD 64"

The entire new testament was fabricated by both Jews and Greeks for three reasons . One was to sever the monarchy, the other was to preserve Jewish mysticism and the third was to subjugate the mosaic law to irrelevancy.

Jesus leaving no blood line was the answer to the first problem of the monarchy and they used Matthew, a Jew, to throw Herod under the bus with his slaughter of innocence "story".

Jesus having God as a father severed the old male dominated monarchy bloodline and the "chosen people" arrogance that was alienating the Jews few allies.

Then the "sins of the fathers" thing became a relic of the past also.

This is why Jesus had to die so he did not leave a new monarchy behind.

By ridding Jewish mysticism of the monarchy it became viable again.

The third thing was the mosaic law. Romans and Greeks and most other sensible educated peoples found mosaic law intolerable. This law itself might have led the Romans to the slaughter of every last Jew on earth (As the story of Megiddo testifies to with the said drawing of lots and the suicides.) Thus Jesus came and freed the people from this law... So the gospel message shifted from it being tailored for only the Jews to becoming applicable to "all people unto the uttermost parts of the earth".

This allowed Jewish mysticism to survive. End of story.

Any story that leaves Jesus with a possible bloodline is simply not part of the orthodoxy of Christianity." Sorry Dan Brown...

1 Reply

California Voters Approve Gay-Marriage Ban

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