17
   

Should I lie to spare feelings?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:05 am
@chai2,
That 's a nice and meticulously rendered analysis of the possibilities.

When I was 11, I adopted a principle of philosophy:
" don 't risk more than u r willing to lose "
which is, in the case at hand, the safety and peace of mind
of being tactful & suave to avoid beginning a vendetta.

Such is the value of diplomacy.






Jesus' advice that u "don 't throw your pearls before swine"
is another way of suggesting that u choose your audience carefully.




David
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:31 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U don 't need to make excuses.


Omg, I agree with david. Shocked Wink
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:32 am
@ebrown p,
I don't think anyone is really advocating lying in this case. More like, just saying she can't come and leave it at that. Or if pressed to say they have plans.

They DO have plans....not going to her party.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 06:36 am
@Bella Dea,
ha.

I agree with david quite often....sometimes I diagree, but I don't let that blind me to what we do share our thoughts on.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 07:28 am
@chai2,
And to be honest I learned this the hard way. This same daughter in pre-school was invited to a girl's birthday party. My daughter said she didn't like her - again another "mean" girl. I convinced my daughter to go to the party (me, trying to nice again). Well I found out from this girl's mother that this child has all sorts of problems and had been kicked out of daycares before.

Long story, short - later on - my daughter ended up getting touch repeatedly by this girl - basically while in line at school, this girl kept rubbing my daughter's crotch, when the teacher saw it, she immediately removed the girl and brought her to the office, where they called her mother and had her removed from the school.

So I now trust my daughter's intution.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 07:30 am
@chai2,
I doubt that would happen, her older brother is an even bigger pain in the a$$ from what I hear. He gets into even more trouble at school and once when my daughter was over at the house, he was about to hit my daughter, but fortunately the mom just walked in.

Needless to say she doesn't go over the house any more - nor does she want to.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 07:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I am trying to teach my child a lesson on what is proper behaviour. I always told her you don't have to like some one for any reason, but you should always be nice to them.

Yes, she can make decisions for herself, however, I want her to realize that you don't go with the crowd (ie because some one is not popular you are mean to them or don't talk to them)
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 07:34 am
@ebrown p,
Why hurt the child's feelings? And why cause a rift among parents? It is a very small school and all families know each other to a certain degree. This girl has gotten feedback from the principal and teacher about the daughter's improper behaviour - its not like it isn't known. Since it is a small school and my daughter has been the receiptant of some of this improper behaviour, I was informed the parents would be spoken with.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 07:41 am
@chai2,
I agree - not everyone will respond the same way.

I can give a real life example with this same daughter. Again being a small school we all sort of know each other to a certain degree. Once one of the other girls in my daughter's class and my daughter had a little tiff (of course not uncommon with kids that age). My daughter spoke to me about it and we discussed - I gave her some suggestions on how to handle. They later talked over the phone together and from my side of things it seemed to be resolved.

The mom later called me and asked me if everything was o-k - she understood I wouldn't get upset and we could discuss.

This other mom, wouldn't end in the same result.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 08:04 am
@Linkat,
Quote:

I doubt that would happen, her older brother is an even bigger
pain in the a$$ from what I hear. He gets into even more trouble
at school and once when my daughter was over at the house,
he was about to hit my daughter, but fortunately the mom just walked in.

Needless to say she doesn't go over the house any more -
nor does she want to.

Sounds like a good place to stay away from.

Don 't risk more than u r willing to lose;
(like getting groped or slugged).





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 08:22 am
@Linkat,
Quote:

I agree - not everyone will respond the same way.

I can give a real life example with this same daughter. Again being a small school we all sort of know each other to a certain degree. Once one of the other girls in my daughter's class and my daughter had a little tiff (of course not uncommon with kids that age). My daughter spoke to me about it and we discussed - I gave her some suggestions on how to handle. They later talked over the phone together and from my side of things it seemed to be resolved.

The mom later called me and asked me if everything was o-k - she understood I wouldn't get upset and we could discuss.

This other mom, wouldn't end in the same result.


How old is your child ?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 08:27 am
@Linkat,
I like to think that people will be straight with me. I am straight with other people. To clarify, I am not against politely declining... as long as there is no invented excuse (the excuse is the lie).

But if the other party "presses" for an reason, I don't see any reason for not giving them the truth. In this case either they have a concern, or they want to make a connection. I feel strongly that people should be honest with each other.

Truth does not create rifts. If there is a rift after you tell the truth, then the rift was always there to begin with. Falsehoods might cover thing up, but falsehood doesn't fix anything.

There is a value to directness and honesty.

I prefer living in a community where people are honest with each other. This way I know that people are sincere in what they say and do and I don't have do guess peoples motives.

This is the way I treat other people, and this is the way I want to be treated. Just don't lie to me.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 08:45 am
@ebrown p,
Quote:

I like to think that people will be straight with me.

Don 't bet too much on that.




Quote:
Truth does not create rifts.

That assertion can be empirically disproven.
U assume (incorrectly) that there are no mentally unstable folks out there.





Quote:
There is a value to directness and honesty.

Yes; thay have also gotten their practitioners killed.





Quote:

I prefer living in a community where people are honest with each other.

Human communities have been around for a WHILE now;
has there been any that is devoid of dishonest citizens ?





David

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 09:39 am
@Linkat,
Quote:

I am trying to teach my child a lesson on what is proper behaviour.

May I offer these notions for your consideration ?

Altho my mother taught me math and geografy,
formatted as lectures, I remember her with earned respect
and fondness for her sitting down with me and earnestly reasoning,
on a bilateral, interactive basis, from an early age.

When I began the first grade at age 6,
I intuited that jurisdiction derived from consent of the governed.
I had a HUGE jurisdictional challenge in mind
and I contemplated rejecting the demands of the educational establishment.

I remember rather emotionally demanding of my mother:
" where in the HELL, do thay think thay have the right to get ME
to go over THERE !! ??? " whereupon,
we sat down at our kitchen table, and she spent the next half hour
explaining the need for and benefits of education,
at whose conclusion, candor required me to put up the White Flag,
however grudgingly. I found my mother 's reasoning inexorable.

I don t believe that I 'd have been as impressed,
if she had merely taught me "a lesson" without actually
convincing me, in good faith, of the merit of her arguments.
She was always earnest and honest, and never played the part
of a hot-shot know-it-all.

Many decades have passed since I lost my mother,
but I warmly remember THAT.



Quote:

Yes, she can make decisions for herself, however,
I want her to realize that you don't go with the crowd
(ie because some one is not popular you are mean to them
or don't talk to them)

From what u posted,
I inferred that your child already figured that out.


David
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:13 am
@Linkat,
Maybe your daughter should attend the party. Life is usually better if you can turn a foe into a friend. Who knows, it might change the girls behavior toward your daughter. Nothing lost if it doesn't work.

BBB

chai2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:44 am
@OmSigDAVID,
ebrown is being naive about the world he would like to live in, as opposed to the world as it is.

It doesn't matter what you'd like to think re how people treat you. What matters is how they Do treat you.

Truth never caused a rift? Oh come on.

There's been many times in my experience that I had to give an unpopular truth to someone, ie their job performance, and at the same time asked them at length if they were all right with what was said, do they understand what was being said,and were they willing to take the suggestions on how to improve.

Oh yes, I understand, no, I understand why I needed to be told, I'm fine with this. I'm going to take your suggestions, I'm sure it'll work......that's what they tell you.

Then, later it comes back to you that you tied this person down and screamed insults in their face, telling them how worthless they are.

or....

a woman says...I don't think we should go out anymore...you're a good person, we're just not compatable....

later, you learn that he broke up with YOU because you're such a slut.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
nine
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:50 am
@ebrown p,
"Truth does not create rifts" - you haven't met half the people I have.

I no longer have a "friend" because of the truth.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You may offer, but I may not take
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Oct, 2008 10:52 am
@OmSigDAVID,
What I am saying is your post is too long and being an adult I do not need to take a lecture from you - now I'm being honest and straight forward.
 

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