3
   

Obama's Tax Plan Is Really a Welfare Plan

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:27 am
@Woiyo9,
What state do you live in and what tax bracket are you in?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:27 am
@Woiyo9,
I don't have to sharpen a pencil. Somewhere I have a spreadsheet that proves it. Over the years I have sent it to several people that claimed they pay 50% in taxes. No one has been able to dispute it or show how they can pay 50%. I include ALL taxes, including FICA (all of FICA), real estate, local and state sales taxes, auto taxes, airline, state income taxes, liquor, gas, etc.

If you are removing FICA from your 50% claim then I doubt you can make it to 40% unless you own a lot of real estate outright that is not creating income for you.
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:14 am
@parados,
Feel free to doubt whatever you like.

Yet, there is NO DOUBT that Obama's tax plan WILL increase you taxes, increase the deficit and do nothing to create jobs. The facts are stated by the Wall Street Journal and the article posted above.
FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:39 am
@Woiyo9,
Well, no, actually I will get a tax cut under Obama's plan. We won't know whether it will increase the deficit until we have a complete budget proposal. As for creating jobs... well, tax cuts aren't supposed to create jobs, are they?

I realize that both candidates have made new proposals with regard to taxes and other economic stimulation efforts in recent days, but a good analysis of their tax plans as stated is here.
According to that analysis, the plan having the biggest detrimental effect on the deficit is McCain's.
Quote:
Although both candidates have at times stressed fiscal responsibility, their specific non-health tax proposals would reduce tax revenues by $3.6 trillion (McCain) and $2.7 trillion (Obama) over the next 10 years, or approximately 10 and 7 percent of the revenues scheduled for collection under current law, respectively. Furthermore, as in the case of President Bush's tax cuts, the true cost of McCain's policies may be masked by phase-ins and sunsets (scheduled expiration dates) that reduce the estimated revenue costs. If his policies were fully phased in and permanent, the ten-year cost would rise to $4.0 trillion, or about 11 percent of total revenues.


There are lots of good articles on that site, and I'm looking now for an updated analysis of the more recent proposals.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:45 am
@Woiyo9,
I will get a tax cut under Obama's tax plan. I don't know where you are getting your assertion that I won't.

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 10:58 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

So your income must be real low!!!
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:02 am
Hundreds of Economists Sign Letter Opposing Obama's Tax Plan

Hundreds of economists (including Nobel Prize winners Gary Becker, James Buchanan, Robert Mundell, Edward Prescott, and Vernon Smith) have signed letters opposing Barack Obama's economic and tax plans (here, here, and here):

Quote:
We are equally concerned with his proposals to increase tax rates on labor income and investment. His dividend and capital gains tax increases would reduce investment and cut into the savings of millions of Americans. His proposals to increase income and payroll tax rates would discourage the formation and expansion of small businesses and reduce employment and take-home pay, as would his mandates on firms to provide expensive health insurance.

After hearing such economic criticism of his proposals, Barack Obama has apparently suggested to some people that he might postpone his tax increases, perhaps to 2010. But it is a mistake to think that postponing such tax increases would prevent their harmful effect on the economy today. The prospect of such tax rate increases in 2010 is already a drag on the economy. Businesses considering whether to hire workers today and expand their operations have time horizons longer than a year or two, so the prospect of higher taxes starting in 2009 or 2010 reduces hiring and investment in 2008.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:03 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

So your income must be real low!!!


It's low enough that I get a tax break from him, yes. What do you find to be funny about that? I'm above the mean for my age group and education level.

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:04 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Keep wishin' for that tax cut! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:06 am
@McGentrix,
"Barack Obama has apparently suggested to some people that he might postpone his tax increases, perhaps to 2010."

Keep this quite. Cyclo is wishing for the "decrease". Wink
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:07 am
@McGentrix,
Haha, on the link '100 economists against Obama's tax plan,' there are only 90 names. And one of them is Doug Holtz-Eakin, a McCain 2008 surrogate, so it's something of a stretch to count him.

More importantly: so what? It isn't as if Economists aren't partisan as well. There are plenty of supporters of the supply-side economic model, most of whom want themselves to be rich and benefit from it; why should it matter to anyone that they signed a piece of paper?

Nice try tho

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:08 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

"Barack Obama has apparently suggested to some people that he might postpone his tax increases, perhaps to 2010."

Keep this quite. Cyclo is wishing for the "decrease". Wink


Maybe he won't be able to do that tax cut for me. So what? I don't need the tax cut. My family is doing just fine without it, and I'm certainly not voting for Obama based upon any promise for a tax cut.

The more you attempt to mock me, the more your pathetic fear shows through, Woiyo. You know that McCain is going to lose, and are merely whistling past the graveyard.

Cycloptichorn
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:17 am
Yeah, I should mention that I don't need a tax cut either. We lost so much money last year that we didn't end up paying any taxes anyway. I expect this year to be the same.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Haha, on the link '100 economists against Obama's tax plan,' there are only 90 names. And one of them is Doug Holtz-Eakin, a McCain 2008 surrogate, so it's something of a stretch to count him.


If you follow the other links there are more then a hundred. It's a running tally.

Quote:
More importantly: so what? It isn't as if Economists aren't partisan as well. There are plenty of supporters of the supply-side economic model, most of whom want themselves to be rich and benefit from it; why should it matter to anyone that they signed a piece of paper?

Cycloptichorn


Because they are experts in their field. You would actually ignore experts opinions because you fear their politics? Shocked If you look, there are even Nobel Prize winners, though none are Krugman.

I have to admit that I am not even the tiniest bit surprised that you would react this way though. You are as partisan as they come.



Woiyo9
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:26 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Just the reality you ignore.

I do not expect to change you mind, yet there may actually be someone out there who is undecided and needs to hear the truth.

That is what I am here for, to post the truth.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:26 am
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Haha, on the link '100 economists against Obama's tax plan,' there are only 90 names. And one of them is Doug Holtz-Eakin, a McCain 2008 surrogate, so it's something of a stretch to count him.


If you follow the other links there are more then a hundred. It's a running tally.


Uh, thanks. I'm aware of that. But your first link, when you go to the page, is entitled:

"Economists Statement on Barack Obama's Risky Economic Proposals
100 Economists Warn That With Current Weak Financial Conditions Barack Obama's Proposals Run A High Risk Of Throwing The US Into A Deep Recession "

And it's laughable, b/c there are only 89 on the list. Holtz-Eakin doesn't count.

Quote:
Quote:
More importantly: so what? It isn't as if Economists aren't partisan as well. There are plenty of supporters of the supply-side economic model, most of whom want themselves to be rich and benefit from it; why should it matter to anyone that they signed a piece of paper?

Cycloptichorn


Because they are experts in their field. You would actually ignore experts opinions because you fear their politics? Shocked If you look, there are even Nobel Prize winners, though none are Krugman.

I have to admit that I am not even the tiniest bit surprised that you would react this way though. You are as partisan as they come.


Fear? Why would I fear their politics? Their politics - and yours - are about to get smashed right in the mouth in a few weeks. If anything, I am disdainful of their politics at this time.

Just b/c they are 'experts' doesn't mean that their opinion is worth any more than the experts who disagree with them. I think there is no field more polarized and divided then Economics, when it comes to what the 'experts' believe. Every election, both sides line up their list of experts and signatories, and nobody cares.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:27 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

Just the reality you ignore.

I do not expect to change you mind, yet there may actually be someone out there who is undecided and needs to hear the truth.

That is what I am here for, to post the truth.


Laughing

I don't think that even you believe that ****, Woiyo. 'The truth.' My ass. This from a guy who claims he pays more than 50% in taxes. You're lying about that, if nothing else.

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
No, Cyclo, you do not think. You react to what you are told.

Think what you want. Believe your messiah is coming to lower your taxes and make the world a better place. That is what you are told to do.

So just do it!

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 11:44 am
@Woiyo9,
Woiyo9 wrote:

No, Cyclo, you do not think. You react to what you are told.

Think what you want. Believe your messiah is coming to lower your taxes and make the world a better place. That is what you are told to do.

So just do it!


I don't have a messiah, so I don't know what you are referring to.

Your argument isn't based on any actual facts, and therefore isn't very compelling... I don't know why you think anyone would be convinced by it.

Cycloptichorn
Woiyo9
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 01:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
the facts are stated in the article. You refuse to read, understand or debate them is a personal matter between you and your therepist.

This person says Obama is the Messiah and you are to follow him. Got it.

Here's a video recorded last February in which Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan apparently pronounces his faith that B. Hussein Obama is "The Messiah":

http://www.alphapatriot.com/home/archives/2008/10/10/farrakhan_obama_and_the_messiah.php
 

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