14
   

Why Tip? The history of tipping in America

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 08:45 pm
@msolga,
they normally would get more tips, yes. The business pays the same low hourly wage no matter what, busy, slow, closed with the wait staff doing side work. BTW a common complaint of waitstaff is that too many people are on the clock, thus no one gets enough tables to make much per hour in tips. It is a constant tension between the owner/managers who pay little for waiters thus often want many waiters around in case it gets busy, and waiters who don't want to go to work without a reasonable chance that they can make good money. Also, because tips are so important waitresses are constantly stressed about which hours they work, which tables they have, and how many tables they have.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:05 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
The standard service industry wage sounds as though it's way to low. That's my point. People can always choose to tip if they want to, but it shouldn't be an expected because wages are too low.


It's not that we have a tipping tradition because the wages are low. The wages are low because we have a tipping tradition. And, frankly, I like it. I pay one entity (the restaurant or the bar) for the goods (the food and the drinks), and I pay another entity (the waitron, busboy, etc.) for the service. Frankly, I find it a lot more awkward tipping in situations where it's not the norm -- it feels patronizing.
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:14 pm
I mean, you wouldn't want baksheesh gone from the Arab world, would you?
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Oct, 2008 09:49 pm
@patiodog,
People at grad school with my husband used to work as wait staff, and do really well - better than I was doing as a senior lab tech - but that was in a city with good restaurants and some population with good bank accounts.

On the other hand, I've frequented many kinds of restaurants, from apparent gourmet paradises to many diners and "holes in the wall", which are my favorites when they're good. When one's whole meal costs under six dollare (a trick doable with biscuits and gravy and coffee or eggs and coffee at some places), leaving 20% is, ah, dinky.

Especially back in what I called north north - some restaurants had relatively few customers and had trouble keeping staff - a pretty good mexican restaurant on highway 101, which is a major highway - with a mother and two sons handling everything, one son the main cook, if he was around, the mother the second cook and hostess, the surly (what? quite young teen) bringing menus and water and bussing. I always way over tipped re percentages, but it was tough for them to keep open.



On another subject, re chefs making good money. Some do, some don't, from my reading. I've read a few books by chefs/restaurant owners and remember talk of resentment between the line cooks and the wait staff re money earned.
No links though.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:05 am
@patiodog,
Quote:
It's not that we have a tipping tradition because the wages are low. The wages are low because we have a tipping tradition. And, frankly, I like it. I pay one entity (the restaurant or the bar) for the goods (the food and the drinks), and I pay another entity (the waitron, busboy, etc.) for the service. Frankly, I find it a lot more awkward tipping in situations where it's not the norm -- it feels patronizing.


If that's how it actually works across the wide range of eateries available in the US, I can understand your point of view. It's very different to what we're used to in OZ , but I understand where you're coming from. I just worry about the wages of waiting staff in less well-off establishments, with less well-off diners who can afford to tip.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:15 am
@msolga,
I meant [ican't[/i] afford to tip, in that last sentence. The little hamster critter told me I couldn't edit my post. (To slow, I suspect!)
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:23 am
@patiodog,
All I know is when my husband was managing restaurants this never happened - the tips always went to the servers - a portion was given to bussers and bartendar, but the restaurant would never keep the money - I would have to imagaine that is illegal.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:25 am
@msolga,
To be competitive - since all restaurants are like this, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage as they would need to raise the prices of items on the menu. Either way the customers will pay for it - through the price of the menu items (if there is no tipping) or through the expected additional cost of tipping.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:27 am
@msolga,
They are in a sense because they will get more in tips. Waitstaff prefer a busy day. One other thing though - I know that my husband had let people go home early when the restaurant was not busy to save on costs.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 07:33 am
@msolga,
Yeah - if you work in a place like Friendlys (this is a ice cream/low priced type of place), or a Dennys where the bill ends up being significantly lower - you end up getting lower tips as a result. I guess my one thought on that is - typically higher priced restaurants will look for experienced waitstaff (thus warranting the higher tips and resulting pay) or those that are better at being a server - I would imagine that restaurants with on average higher menu items are more sought after for waitstaff and therefore these restaurants will fire any waitstaff (or I know with my husband - decrease hours/give bad hours/days/tables) to those that are not as good at their job - again understandably if you are a better performer you should be rewarded as such.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 11:10 am
@Linkat,
Many restaurants are suffering huge drops in traffic, so they are simply going out of business. A good manager/owner knows when to cut hours when business is slow to non-existent to open for business another day. Not many have the flexibility to take such actions.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 11:11 am
@Linkat,
There are several restaurants we frequent where they have lower paid staff who makes sure our water glass and coffee mugs are filled. That alone is worth a bigger tip.
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Oct, 2008 02:19 pm
@Linkat,
Quote:
Yeah - if you work in a place like Friendlys (this is a ice cream/low priced type of place), or a Dennys where the bill ends up being significantly lower - you end up getting lower tips as a result.


On the other hand, Denny's is never going out of business. That new frou-frou Thai-Italian fusion place on the corner probably will...
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jun, 2013 11:07 am
When you have had too much to drink, have someone else figure the tip:
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/6/19/14/enhanced-buzz-25880-1371666625-14.jpg
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ariellecalderon/things-that-seem-like-a-good-idea-when-youre-drunk
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jun, 2013 12:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There are several restaurants we frequent where they have lower paid staff who makes sure our water glass and coffee mugs are filled. That alone is worth a bigger tip.


Yeah, like that's not their job.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jun, 2013 12:23 pm
@tsarstepan,
What gets me on this though - is this person was so drunk how the heck did they determine such a nice round number for a tip and even more importantly seeing how much of a tip they gave, why not round up to the next dollar rather than the next 50 cents to make a nice even $125?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jun, 2013 01:23 pm
@Linkat,
I suppose, I've got his pin-code ... though getting the answer of the security question was quite easy .... Wink
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2013 01:04 pm
Quote:
Waiters need a different type of change, New York food critic says in anti-tipping call
Peter Wells of the New York Times called the practice 'irrational, outdated, ineffective, confusing, prone to abuse and sometimes discriminatory'

It is a custom that is as natural to American diners as using cutlery, but have they finally had their fill of tipping?

“Irrational, outdated, ineffective, confusing, prone to abuse and sometimes discriminatory”: that is how a leading New York restaurant critic has described the custom in a call to abandon it.

Across the US, instead of imposing a mandatory service charge, restaurants give their customers the option of rewarding the wait staff as they see fit.

... ... ...


The above mentioned NYT-report (in full):
Quote:
CRITIC’S NOTEBOOK
Leaving a Tip: A Custom in Need of Changing?

Try one of these techniques if you want better service in restaurants:
1. Become very famous;

2. Spend $1,000 or more on wine every time you go out;

3. Keep going to the same restaurant until you get V.I.P. treatment; if that doesn’t work, pick another place.

Now, here is a technique that is guaranteed to have no effect on your service: leave a generous tip.

I’ve tipped slightly above the average for years, generally leaving 20 percent of the total, no matter what. According to one study, lots of people are just like me, sticking with a reasonable percentage through good nights and bad. And it doesn’t do us any good, because servers have no way of telling that we aren’t the hated type that leaves 10 percent of the pretax total, beverages excluded.

Some servers do try to sniff out stingy tippers, engaging in customer profiling based on national origin, age, race, gender and other traits. (The profiling appears to run both ways: another study showed that customers tended to leave smaller tips for black servers.)

I could go on against tipping, but let’s leave it at this: it is irrational, outdated, ineffective, confusing, prone to abuse and sometimes discriminatory. The people who take care of us in restaurants deserve a better system, and so do we.

That’s one reason we pay attention when a restaurant tries another way, as Sushi Yasuda in Manhattan started to do two months ago. Raising most of its prices, it appended this note to credit card slips: “Following the custom in Japan, Sushi Yasuda’s service staff are fully compensated by their salary. Therefore gratuities are not accepted.”

Sushi Yasuda joins other restaurants that have done away with tips, replacing them with either a surcharge (Atera and Chef’s Table at Brooklyn Fare in New York; Next and Alinea in Chicago; Coi and Chez Panisse in the San Francisco Bay Area) or prices that include the cost of service (Per Se in New York and the French Laundry in Yountville, Calif.).

The chef Tom Colicchio is considering service-included pricing at one of his New York restaurants, paying servers “an hourly rate that would be consistent with what they make now,” he said. “I think it makes perfect sense. I’m not sure my staff is going to think it makes perfect sense.”

These restaurants are numerous enough and important enough to suggest that a tip-reform movement is under way. On the other hand, they are few enough and exceptional enough to suggest that the movement may remain very small, and move very slowly.

Americans have stuck with tipping for years because all parties thought it worked in their favor. Servers, especially in restaurants from the mid- to high-priced, made good money, much of it in cash, and much of that unreported on tax returns. Owners saved on labor costs and taxes. And customers generally believed that tips brought better service.

The self-interest calculation may be different now. Credit card receipts and tougher oversight have virtually killed off unreported tips.

Another change is cultural. The restaurant business can be seen as a class struggle between the groomed, pressed, articulate charmers working in the dining room and the blistered, stained and profane grunts in the kitchen. The rise of chefs that are also owners has brought a few of the grunts to power. But as the average tip has risen to 20 percent or so from 15 percent, the pay for line cooks, dishwashers and others has stayed low.

At Coi, in San Francisco, Daniel Patterson, the chef and owner, levies an 18 percent service charge to be “shared by the entire staff,” the menu notes. One of his motives was to level out the income disparity that tipping creates between the kitchen and the front of the house, he said.

“Neither one is more important than the other,” Mr. Patterson said. “So it doesn’t make sense to me that servers would make three to four times as much as cooks.”

A second change has been howling outside the door. Front-of-house workers are suing one respected restaurant after another, including Dovetail, last month, accusing them of playing fast and loose with the laws on tips. The charges include sharing tips with workers who aren’t eligible for them and making tipped employees spend too much time on what is called sidework, like folding napkins between meals.

One such lawsuit was settled for more than $5 million. Some owners now think they can avoid the suits by eliminating tips.

“You abide by the letter of the law and do a service charge,” said Nick Kokonas, an owner of Alinea and Next. “That’s the only way you can take that income and spread it out to the staff.”

Restaurants that move to a surcharge or service-included pricing pay much more for labor, losing a sizable payroll-tax credit on tipped income.

Still, Mr. Kokonas said: “It’s worth it, because as soon as you grow to a certain size these days, and you’re high profile, everyone starts examining what you do. It’s not good enough to say, ‘These guys are making $100,000 a year and they’re treated really well and they have full health care.’ That’s irrelevant. It’s ‘Did they get paid overtime for their sidework?’ ”

Mr. Kokonas’s restaurants and others call the extra fee a service charge. The term is misleading if the money goes to workers who don’t serve, and lawyers warn that in New York State, that would be illegal.

Justin Swartz, a partner at Outten & Golden, a law firm that represents employees, says that in New York State, the fee should be called something like an administrative charge, or rolled into menu prices.

Even that won’t make restaurants entirely lawsuit-proof, particularly if some customers insist on tipping anyway. “You’re right back to square one,” said Carolyn D. Richmond, a lawyer at Fox Rothschild who advises many prominent restaurateurs. This summer, after consulting her and running the numbers, David Chang decided against service-included pricing for his Momofuku restaurants in New York.

“It’s a change in legislation that we need, and a change in the American diner’s view on tipping,” Ms. Richmond said. “And that’s even harder than changing legislatures.”

But the diner’s views may be changing. This is in part because restaurants like Per Se have taken the lead, but also in part because those lawsuits have corroded our faith that our tips will go where we want them to.

Even if we believe the argument that workers’ lawyers are going after technical violations of archaic, Depression-era laws, they have brought to light a major peculiarity of the restaurant business: they depend on tips to make their payrolls. The temptation to treat that money as general revenue can be hard for some to resist.

Since the suits began, “people think restaurants are just hoarding that cash,” Mr. Chang said.

But forget the cheats; the suits have also reminded us that many employees share our tips. So, if we leave 10 percent to signal our unhappiness with our server’s tone of voice, we may be hurting other workers, from the host who seated us by the window to the sommelier who suggested that terrific Sicilian white, to the runner who delivered the skate while it was still hot. How much longer can we insist that it’s our privilege to decide whether we want to pay these people?

“A service charge and a salary brings the profession back into the bright sun of the professional mainstream, instead of the murky half-light in which restaurants used to exist,” Mr. Patterson said.

He is a true believer, but he can’t convince everybody. In 2010 he tried an 18 percent service charge when he opened Plum in Oakland, Calif. Perhaps because Plum was less expensive and more casual than Coi, diners rebelled, and he dropped the charge.

The new system may not be right for customers at value-oriented places like Plum, at least for now. But it’s time for all of us who go out to eat to think twice about our habits. Tipping doesn’t work, and it doesn’t feel very good anymore, either.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2013 01:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Today is my wife's birthday, so I treated her and our son to lunch at Sizzler's because they wanted to eat steak. We wanted to go to Black Angus or Outback, but they don't open until 4PM.

All three of us ordered the 8oz sirloin medium rare, and I had beer while my wife and son drank water. When I paid the bill at the cashier with my credit card, there was a space for TIP, but I didn't add anything to the bill, because I didn't know what kind of service to expect. We ordered our steak at the cashier.

The waiter who served our table asked if we wanted bread, so we ordered two. The waiter served us our food, and refilled my son's glass with water once. I left a $3 tip for the waiter - which I thought was fair. What do you think?

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2013 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Today is my wife's birthday, ...
Say 'Happy birthday' to her from Ulla and me Wink
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

New A2K Coolnesses - Discussion by sozobe
what are the you tube tricks and tips? - Question by kalecaliber
When should you get your college textbooks? - Question by UniversalQuilt
Suggestions Needed!!! - Question by morgaineillyanpost
Help with foundation and concealer! - Question by Sara Renee
Fanfiction Writing Tips? - Question by spacesword16
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.1 seconds on 12/22/2024 at 08:36:55