I Got a Question About Beauty Queens

Who said anything about putting your entire 'stock' into looks?

i said using it in your favor.

I said - taking care of your appearance
I said - wearing clothes that fit properly

I said a lot of things, but I did not say that looks were the end all say all of everything. Anyone who thinks just their looks alone will carry them through everything is stupid.
You have to have substance to back it up. being good looking can get you some assistance in life.. sorry.. thats just true. but for it to be everything someone is about.. well there are people like that all over the place. And I agree. they are horrid.

But. what an individual person DOES , is not what adds pressure to little girls.
there should be no pressure in looking good , and making sure you take care of your appearance. That should be common place. It is taught in basic grooming habits. You brush your teeth so that they stay white. your mouth stays clean and your breath is not repulsive. That is taking care of your appearance. Washing your clothes so that they are clean, neat, and look good. Again, taking care of your appearance, making sure you look good. Taking a shower or bath to keep your skin clean, your body smelling nice ... again.. basic grooming habits.

Dont hear me say things like getting breast implants are a good thing. Im not talking about being super egotistical here. Im talking about the basic things that everyone should do. Like wearing clean clothes. Washing your face, brushing your teeth, wearing a bit of makeup, perfume if that is what you like.. selecting clothes because they look good on your body type and not in a magazine some where. Being present in your choices about your hygiene make all the difference. Wearing things because they fit, because they look good on you, because they fit your personal style.... not because some star wore it, not because of its price tag.......... but because it looks good. Does that make sense?

hahahahahahhahahahhahahahahahhahhaahahahha

oh.my.god

hahahahhahahhahahahhahahah

a weekend radio show called the hideout, cut the audio of that as palins answer to gibson asking her about the bush doctrine, too goddamn funny

This is too good.

Perhaps not bitchy or rude, but judgemental.

I know a number of women who are not trying to have a leg up on the competition, mostly because they value their women friends. Your take sounds like a hyper-vigilant survival mechanism.

It probably seemed like I was saying you said that, but I actually meant in general our cultural in America is too looks oriented. Young girls go through a lot of pressure to be as thin and good looking as possible often time going through physical problems as a result of the pressure they feel to be the best looking girl at school. It is a real problem and I think encouraging the pressure rather than trying to change the culturally looks oriented society we live in is not a good thing. IMO

Also there is a stigma with adults in the work force who are unattractive or too fat which I happen to think is unfair. (I don't work (been a stay at home mom all my adult life) so this is not personal) An unattractive person can try to look as good as possible but if they are really unattractive dressing up is not going to help much in some work places. (They also might have trouble getting discounts at tire store by showing a little leg if their face is not attractive, no offense..) Although there are exceptions, take Helen Thomas the newswoman for example. I imagine she had to make it on sheer performance no matter how much make-up she put on her face.

I agree with making the most of your self by good grooming habits and there is certainly nothing wrong with looking good or sexy or however you want to term it. I just don't agree with making it an important part of success in girls and later women. Feel free to disagree.

I hate this video. There are so many things that could cause her to answer in such a scattered manner. She says she was caught off guard. People thought it was funny - and it was sort of, but - it was hard to watch too. She is a good sport though...thankfully - Matt Lauer and Ann Curry gave her a chance to redeem herself : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20473692/

In certain situations, yes it is a survival mechanism. I would agree with that.
And there are situations where that would need to be someones skill as well as their tool. Whether we like it or not, there are situations where looks mean more to people then anything else. Strippers? hello. You cant work in that kind of a situation and be ugly. Aint happenin...
beauty salon? If you think for one second you will be successful as a makeup artist with your own makeup looking bad.. you better think again.
News Anchor? Sorry.. again.. you are not getting that job if you dont take care of your appearance. Show me ONE anchor who is seriously over weight, hair undone, clothes that look tacky.... It doesnt happen. Because they are in a position where their appearance makes a difference to that entire TV station. They HAVE to be pleasing to the eye so that people will want to watch and listen. That is how the station gets their ratings. The anchor does not have to be a model.. but they do have to 'look good'. Clothes clean, makeup smooth, hair done, teeth clean, nails clean.. etc. And having a leg up on the competition in that scenario is a perfect example. Again.. it comes down to ratings and how a tv station ranks is how well they will get paid. You have to have the 'substance' ( in this example it would be the ability to report ) to back it up, but your appearance means A LOT.

but, the value I place on my women friends has nothing to do with me perceiving thier style, their clothing, their behavior, their personal hygiene and looking for my own 'tips' so to speak.

For example..
I have a friend J who lives up the street from me. She is 48 and drop dead beautiful. I mean.. one of those really shockingly pretty women. I watch her all the time to see what she does with herself. And then I take her ideas,her 'grooming rituals ' so to speak, and some of her clothing choices and I try them out on my own body.
From her, I have learned which moisturizers to use to keep my finger tips from getting dry around the nails.
from her I have learned about using gold colored eye liner.
From her I learned about long skirt styles.
All of those lessons have boosted my own appearance and confidence and has done nothing to damage our relationship.
In fact, because we share those kinds of tips with each other, we are closer friends then we were before hand.

Wolfie, you get outta the big metros, and a lot of the strippers are less than beautiful people...

I misunderstood you.
I agree with what you are saying.

There is WAY too much placed on looks and it almost feels as though women are expected to only look good now and not have anything behind their looks .

In fact, when they DO have something behind their looks ( an education, a high profile job.. jeezee.. Like Sara Palin ) they get slammed for it.
It feels as though we women should only sit on a shelf and look good if we can. If we dont have the looks, then we better be able to work our asses off because we are useless other wise.

fair enough..

Well coming from the opposite angle - I have been around a few not beautiful people that are brilliant - they are mean, over-confident and belittling. It's exhausting being around them and the only thing they seem to enrich is themselves. And I have been around some homely people that are so kind and loving- their personalities are amazing so that they become attractive to me. I just think it takes all kinds. Most people just do the best they can - I would like to believe that anyway. Labeling people and believing that just because they look a certain way that they are a certain way is unfair.

Of couse it is unfair sometimes. But, fair or unfair, we all make all kinds of judgments about people based on many things. In an earlier post, Revel expressed her contempt for me based on how I express myself. How I express myself doesn't bother most people but it bothers her. Why? Who knows? Others judge me by my ideological point of view socially, politically, religiously or whatever and that can be pro or con. Some judge me by what I've done over my rather long life; some judge me by what I can do. Some judge me as experienced and qualified, perhaps even with expertise in a few things; some judge me as too old or unsuitable and therefore not to be taken seriously. And yes, some have almost certainly judged me by my appearance.

I judge you, Mismi, by your posts because that is all I know of you. And that judgment is somebody who is thoughtful and caring and funny and observant and critical and smart with a strong sense of right and wrong. You are somebody I would like to meet in real life based on the judgments I've made about you so far. And I have no clue what you look like and doubt that would make a difference in how I perceive you.

I agree that it is unfair to judge people by only the way they look, but it isn't unfair to judge people by their appearance. Somebody who showed up for an interview excessively overdressed or dressed too casually; somebody who didn't bother to make themselves as presentable as possible, won't make as favorable an impression as somebody who does make himself/herself as presentable as possible. And I think we all know that or the cosmetics, hair salons, and fashion industries would all go out of business.

I've often mentioned that in a former life I was director of a large social agency that did a lot of different things. Those years were one of my greater blessings in life. Three years in a row we sponsored the local Miss America pageant before it outgrew us and the Chamber of Commerce took it over. That's where I learned of the very strict standards that are required of the contestants and how it is so much more than simply a beauty pageant.

I still don't like beauty pageants, but Miss America is really okay. And Sarah Palin had to have a lot more going for her than just being beautiful to get as far as she did. She didn't do it be win the pageant, though. She did it to get her hands on that scholarship money. Once she had accomplished that, she never entered another pageant.

Do you work in TV?

Really? I've never met any strippers outside of the big metros.

Why is that, Foxfyre?

I'm in agreement about the unseemliness aspect, but that's Politics in a nutshell - it's become a beauty contest.

And, also...here's a 'hmmmmm' thought: why would you want to participate in something that makes you walk in high heels and wear a bathing suit? What earthly good is that feat? Never mind the sexism aspect for the moment - trained elephants have to do such tasks in circuses.

You don't like seeing a girl in a bathing suit and heels? If not you are probably in the minority. Girls get things when they look good - just like Shewolf said. For whatever reason the beauty contests have always had a swimsuit competition and they count for only 15% of the points earned in the competition.

I go back and forth in my feelings about the swimsuit competition. But when I see the examples of some of the women who have gone through the Miss America program, it's hard to say it's all bad. So many of these girls go on to be successful in great careers - Mary Ann Mobley, Lee Merriwether, Phyllis George, Vanessa Williams, Leanza Cornett, those are the ones who I know that made it big commercially.

There are many others who have pursued careers in what they love. Kim Wimmer (did not become Miss America - was Miss Alabama 1992) - she is an actress (small parts - she is working on it though) but has a band that plays at the Bellagio. She played in shows off broadway. She is enjoying her life - she's no dummy. She graduated cum laude from Birmingham Southern. She's a sharp girl. I am sure there are many others just like her that are well educated and well rounded.

This right here... is the core of what I am trying to explain.

It is a perfect example of people using their tools ( physical attractiveness is just ONE of many..) to become people who make others comfortable with them.
People who utilize what they were given to be able to further themselves and others around them.

When i say I use my looks to get through situations, understand it is only situations where it would apply in the first place.
And an example would be my tire.
My tire was flat. So flat I should not have driven on it. There is construction going on in my neighborhood and the workers are less then stellar about cleaning up after themselves and watching where their tools land. This is the second flat tire I have gotten due to a nail.
this one caught me off guard and between paydays. I had 4 dollars in my pocket and .86 cents in my bank account having just used the last 7.00 for gas.
Luckily, this happened on a day I was dressed to meet someone. So my makeup was a bit darker then usual, clothing a bit more form fitting and nice. Nails freshly done.. You know the look.

So I pulled into a small shop, jumped out of my car with my hand extended at a rather attractive worker () and introduced myself. Then went on to explain my tire, and talked about how careless the workers were where I lived, and how I felt a little helpless having to repair my tires over and over again when it was not my fault.
The man was attracted to me. I could tell. So i kept eye contact a bit longer, laughed a bit more, stood a bit closer... and was truly open about my money. I offered to leave him a check for the remainder of the cost because I was between a rock and a hard place. With a side comment about me coming back for anything I might need, he graciously let me have a repair for 4.00.

Maybe it makes me a bit egotistical to THINK that my looks played a part into this, because I am also very chatty and very friendly.. but I am willing to bet, he would not have been as quick to be forgiving of that money to someone who was not physically appealing. Not saying appealing as in " Dear lord woman I want to take you home" .......... I mean appealing as in, clean, neat, smells good..e tc.

I used a tool , to help myself out of a jam. My looks and my personality.
Had I have been dressed differently, I would have used other tools. A check for the remainder, my personality, an offer of work exchange ( I clean businesses and homes for a living.) Or photography for their website.. SOMETHING.. anything.. any tool I had could have been used to help me here. But I was able to get what I needed with looks first, personality second.
HE got, a returning customer. I need to replace 2 tires on my car. That will be done on the first of the month ( 3 weeks ) . .. guess where I am going? And will keep going for my tires?

But now I am getting side tracked.
People have different things to their advantage in life. Some are really nice, soft spoken, helpful people. Some are very business minded, get things done quickly efficiently .. Some are great listeners.. You name it. The list is long.
But everyone has a set of tools to use. For some, those tools include looks. For others it does not. But the most successful people will be the ones that use each tool they have no matter what it is to make other people feel comfortable with them and get the help they need, the step ahead that they want, get confidence, a raise, friends, husband, wife. ..etc.etc..