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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:15 pm
@Asherman,
Your willful blindness to the facts is unbecoming. And who is Prof. Ames? If you can't be bothered with acquainting yourself with basic facts, i.e. the man's name, how do you dare to pretend to be an expert on the subject?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:18 pm
@Asherman,
Asherman wrote:
The AIP is kooky without a doubt, but the linkages between that group and Gov. Palin seem very tenuous indeed. Her husband apparently was a member for a short time over a decade ago, but he isn't running for anything.


According to FactCheck.org, that's not quite true:

Quote:
The director of Alaska’s Division of Elections, Gail Fenumiai, confirms that Palin registered to vote in the state for the first time in May 1982 as a Republican and hasn’t changed her party affiliation since. She also told FactCheck.org that Palin’s husband, Todd, was registered with AIP from October 1995 to July 2000, and again from September 2000 until July 2002.


So, Todd Palin was a member for seven years, and he was a member as recently as July 2002.


Asherman wrote:
Officially, Obama and Ames[sic] are only neighbors who happen to have served on two community oriented boards. It seems that the relationship is deeper than that, and that knowing dangerous it is to be associated with a real terrorist, Obama has kept their association very, very quiet.


What is your evidence for claiming that the relationship between Obama and Ayers is deeper than what is known so far - that there was never more than a $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership on the Woods Fund Board?

Specifically?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:18 pm
James writes
Quote:
Surely, you don't want to be known as the Mike Nifong of A2K.

Laughing

In Debra's defense, while she joins others in putting a lot of schoolyard caliber insulting crapola out there, I think just mostly for effect, she really does have great legal research ability when she is inspired to utilize it. And in the rare case where you find yourself on the same side of a real issue with her, she is a great ally.

I'm hoping at some time she will actually have a case that she can make on one of these issues and we will see her at her best. When there is no defense other than throwing stones, it can get annoying at times, but for those occasional glimpses into brilliance, I'm in favor a keeping her around.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:21 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JM wrote: "Please Debra, surely you know that I have already scrutinized both of your involved posts and my own that employed them for my argument before asking you to provide the offending text....(blah, blah, blah)."

Oh please. Try to employ a modicum of intellectual honesty. Instead of setting up a strawman and attacking that, why don't you address what I really said. I have no inclination to participate in your game of deceptive distractions.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:40 pm
@Asherman,
I'm forced to agree with Debra - your post might be considered a tad more credible, if you realized we were talking about Bill Ayers, and not Aldrich Ames.

As it is, I find your fear-mongering to be tiresome and boring. Ayers is not going to decide this election one way or another and this hang-up that the right wing has on tarring Obama by his associations is one of the primary reasons that McCain is currently losing by a good margin, and the Senate and the House are headed the same direction.

Cycloptichorn
JamesMorrison
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:00 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
These are legitimate questions. And I do not want a President who embraces or is even willing to tolerate the hateful views of those people I named. That he did not repudiate a single one of them until they became political liabilities to him is not reassuring. I don't want that kind of President.


Fox, yes it’s about character. We have no idea what problems or emergencies will present themselves to the chief executive during the next 4 years. So, the only guide voters have to form an opinion about a future president and his resultant decisions is his character. Given Obama's past decisions during his political rise and McCain's, who would be one's choice for the presidency? Their does seem to be an almost messianic popular movement pushing Obama, implicit in this is the lack of rational thinking. This is then coupled with the 'any body but somebody in Bush's party' mentality.

Does any body, looking at McCain's history, seriously think he is not a committed civil servant? A long history it is, with some warts, but given the alternative, the decision is a no brainer for me. I myself have voiced concerns that McCain is not conservative enough for me but his history demonstrates voting against his own party when he sincerely believed it was the right thing for the American people (my criticism here is simply he needed to be better informed, but then compromise is not always a bad thing). We do not see that sort of compromise in Obama's short predictable liberal voting history. Obama's compromises seem more personal then political.

JM
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The conservatives have an endless bag of tricks during the presidential elections from "I'm a uniter, not a divider," to "Obama pals around with a domestic terrorist."

0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:11 pm
@JamesMorrison,
I do believe McCain wants to finish off his career in the Presidency. But I, like you, think he is not doing it for the glory. I think he honestly believes he could do it better than it has been done lately. And I think he is serious that he won't care who gets the credit for what works, though he is only human and certainly would like to go out as a success.
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:15 pm
@JamesMorrison,
JamesMorrison wrote:
Their does seem to be an almost messianic popular movement pushing Obama, implicit in this is the lack of rational thinking. This is then coupled with the 'any body but somebody in Bush's party' mentality.


This seems to be an overly simplistic way of explaining away the enthusiasm gap... don't you think?

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:17 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Quote:
Their does seem to be an almost messianic popular movement pushing Obama, implicit in this is the lack of rational thinking. This is then coupled with the 'any body but somebody in Bush's party' mentality.


I mean this seriously. What, specifically, would you describe as 'the lack of rational thinking' amongst Obama supporters?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:19 pm
@old europe,
Don't you love it when the conservatives uses the word "messianic" while they continue to ignore the electoral votes increasing for Obama and dropping for McCain? Their christianity is showing. LOL
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:22 pm
Yep, had a senior moment there and said "Ames" when I meant "Ayres". I seriously doubt that anyone, with the possible exception of Cicero didn't know who was meant. I wasn't aware that I've presented myself as an "expert", I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. As I've gotten older, I find that I'm increasingly prone to mis-spellings, and little errors.

A closer reading of my post above should satisfy most folks that I don't regard Obama's association with the Weather Underground much more relevant than Gov. Palin's husbands association with a fringe political party, even though one actually did conduct terrorist bombings and bank robberies while the other apparently talks a lot of nonsense. Neither would likely even be commented on if it weren't for the election rhetoric of partisans. Far more serious, in my view was Obama's long and intimate relationship with a racially bigoted pastor and church.

If you lot want to throw stones at Gov. Palin's husband, then you should be prepared to deal everyday with Obama's relationship to Rev. Wright. Put the two associations in balance, and which raises the more serious questions? The spouse of a VP candidate who belonged to a fringe political party, or the man who want's to be President's personal close associations with a racially biased individual? It is a public shame that an unrepentant terrorist bomber should today be cloaked in respectability.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:23 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I do believe McCain wants to finish off his career in the Presidency. But I, like you, think he is not doing it for the glory. I think he honestly believes he could do it better than it has been done lately. And I think he is serious that he won't care who gets the credit for what works, though he is only human and certainly would like to go out as a success.


Oh, Fox.

Quote:
"I didn't decide to run for president to start a national crusade for the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be president because it had become my ambition to be president. . . . In truth, I'd had the ambition for a long time."


I'd love for you to guess who I'm quoting, from their memoir describing their reasons for running for President in 2000, without googling it. C'mon. Give it a go.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:28 pm
@Asherman,
Fair enough.

I will say that Obama's relationship with the Reverend Wright is a well-known thing at this point. It has been discussed at length. The electorate has had every opportunity to become aware of it and no small amount of time has been spent by Republicans, especially on the state party level, to inform people of it. Yet it does not seem to have dissuaded many from deciding to vote for him.

Surely this says something to you about the public opinion of Obama's relationship with the guy. I would guess that far, far more people have, themselves, imperfect preachers and pastors themselves, and realize that you can love someone for the qualities within them worth loving, and forgive them for their errors.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:29 pm
@Asherman,
Sure, you were talking about Ayres. Now, nothing in your post explains what you meant here:

Asherman wrote:
It seems that the relationship is deeper than that, and that knowing dangerous it is to be associated with a real terrorist, Obama has kept their association very, very quiet.


Do explain, Asherman. Why does it seem that there has been a "deeper relationship" between Ayres and Obama? What's your evidence for that?

Or is that just some kind of vague innuendo?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:34 pm
@old europe,
Not only innuendo, but spreading the lies of fear. He claims to be a buddhist.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 07:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ever wonder how people at a McCain rally are feeling these days?



Cycloptichorn
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 09:27 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
I do believe McCain wants to finish off his career in the Presidency. But I, like you, think he is not doing it for the glory. I think he honestly believes he could do it better than it has been done lately. And I think he is serious that he won't care who gets the credit for what works, though he is only human and certainly would like to go out as a success.


Why do your rely on your own thoughts or beliefs concerning McCain's motives and IGNORE McCain's own words? In his autobiography, "Worth the Fighting For," McCain admitted that he wanted to be president to satisfy his own ambition. McCain admitted that he didn't run for president to start a national crusade for reforms or as some grand act of patriotism, i.e. "country first." He ran for president because he thought, at his age, it was his last shot at the "prize." Now, at an even older age, he is DESPERATE to attain the "prize" because this IS absolutely his last shot.
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 09:30 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Oops . . . I should have read further. You beat me to the point!
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 09:44 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I'm appalled by the hate-filled, ignorant mob; I'm even more appalled by McCain and Palin for deliberately inciting the mob with their fear-mongering lies and innuendos.
0 Replies
 
 

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