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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 10:34 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Now now, do you want somebody to start listing Obama lies on the campaign trail?


There is not enough room on the net for all of Obama's lies.

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 10:39 am
This is an interesting article.
It is about some lost video being found.
Apparently its the only known film of John McCain being released by the North Vietnamese and being handed over to the USAF.

http://www.thelocal.se/14262/20080911/

The link to the actual video is at the bottom of the article.
0 Replies
 
Lambchop
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 11:08 am
@Foxfyre,
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2018/2416683139_a4378dd5b9.jpg
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:39 pm
McCains bump holds 48 - 44.

http://www.gallup.com/tag/Gallup%2BDaily.aspx
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:43 pm
@okie,

And he is performing exceptionally well on TV right now .
I expect his numbers to rise further after tonight Cool

okie
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:15 pm
@H2O MAN,
Good.
Just saw Palin, installment #1 with Charlie Gibson. I thought she performed very well, with one exception. In regard to the "Bush Doctrine," I am not sure she knew exactly what it was, but disappointingly, Gibson mischaracterized what the doctrine was and is, which I find also very disappointing because he was supposed to be properly prepped with correct questions. I find it very troubling that he can't even ask correct questions.

The thing most impressive was her ability to not be suckered into answering a yes or no question, such as going into Pakistan, which is of course wise to say all options must be on the table, but every decision is made per the situation at each point in time and circumstance, and this is what she maintained as an answer.
JamesMorrison
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 02:10 pm
@okie,
Okie,
I was ging to post this on Bi-Polar Bear's thread on the Palin interview but since he not voting anyway I thought it would be a better if I posted to this thread.
I found Palin’s overall performance in the interview quite promising. Her answer to the question implyng she had no experience and whether she could govern at the national executive level given the opportunity: ”Yes” was forceful and, just as important, immediate " no hesitating whatsoever. Her come back on the Bush Doctrine question hinted that perhaps she was unfamiliar with the concepts but her comeback question to Charlie was nimble: “What particular aspects of the doctrine are you referring to Charlie?”. Gibson’s response seemed to reveal that he thought he had reached a” gotcha moment” and he did not refine his question until a little later. He seemed to briefly revel in the moment then, patrician like, he asked about that part of the doctrine that would call for premptive strikes given cases of clear and present danger. Given there are other policies than the premptive strike, Palin’s response of asking for a further refining of Gibson 's question was proper. At that point Gibson could have said “Well, the whole thing”. Given this and Palin’s subsequent answer we could have properly determined not only her knowledge of the doctrine but her opinion of it. Seems Gibson preferred the appearance of the “Gotcha” rather than having his audience properly informed. But then I was kind of rooting for her and I am biased.

The Pakistan answer essentially said all options are on the table. Gibson tried to get her to say that she would jump across the Afghan/Pakistan border and Palin did tell him so but not in the context that her political enemies could easily extract a simple sound bite like “Cross Pakistan’s border? Well, hell yes Charlie! In a heart beat!” Gibson, after mumbling something about “a blizzard of words” then tries again for the sound bite but Palin rebuffs him with the same answer that: her administration would do what it took to protect American citizens. I wonder what part of “we must do whatever it takes and we must not blink” Charlie didn’t understand?

In a later part of the interview Gibson tried to get Palin to admit that she differed on McCain on global warming where McCain feels there is global warming and she doesn’t. She merely explained that she would gladly work to decrease global warming (like McCain) but that she was yet convinced human activity was a major factor, if a factor at all. Seems Gibson made the mighty discovery of a difference without a distinction. What impressed me the most about this part of the interview is that she told Americans outright her beliefs on global warming which are not PC to wit: The planet does seem to be warming up and this is more noticeable in the upper latitudes of Alaska, but she has yet to see any scientific evidence that human activity is the major cause (Just think of the ways the left can twist this perceived heresy! They will rail that the “debate is over” and that everybody accepts global warming as a fact but Palin is right in pointing out the scientific weakness of their case. Remember, in the 1990’s they were all concerned about global cooling!). Here there is an important distinction that affects economies all over the world. If the warming we see is due mainly to geological reasons and not human activity then curtailing that human activity will not only be insignificant (towards decreasing global warming) it will economically harm many economies on earth. This is a good point, especially since many on the left have a problem with the U.S. unilaterally crossing rogue state borders to prevent the deaths of American and International citizens but, given a perceived global warming, have absolutely no problem telling developing nations like Pakistan, Afghanistan, China, or India, to name a few, how to conduct the development of their economies so that their people can live better lives.

JM
JamesMorrison
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 03:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
A more comprehensive explanation of the "Bush Doctrine" by the person who coined the phrase:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202457_2.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 03:44 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Good find James:
An excerpt from that piece (you gotta love Krauthammer):
Quote:
. . .(the Bush Doctrine) was most dramatically enunciated in Bush's second inaugural address: "The survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. The best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in all the world."

This declaration of a sweeping, universal American freedom agenda was consciously meant to echo John Kennedy's pledge in his inaugural address that the United States "shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty." It draws also from the Truman doctrine of March 1947 and from Wilson's 14 points.

If I were in any public foreign policy debate today, and my adversary were to raise the Bush doctrine, both I and the audience would assume -- unless my interlocutor annotated the reference otherwise -- that he was speaking about the grandly proclaimed (and widely attacked) freedom agenda of the Bush administration.

Not the Gibson doctrine of preemption.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 03:55 pm
In the wake of the departing Senator Pete Domenici (R) of New Mexico, the two congressmen vieing for that seat are Tom Udall and Steve Pearce. Awhile back the RNC had pulled financial support from Pearce to divert to closer races when Udall opened a nearly 30-pt lead on Pearce. But as of this week, without RNC help, Pearce is within 7 points of Udall and closing.

And there is this yesterday in FT:
Quote:
Democrats on Capitol Hill fear Obama fallout
By Andrew Ward in Washington
September 11, 2008

Democratic jitters about the US presidential race have spread to Capitol Hill, where some members of Congress are worried that Barack Obama’s faltering campaign could hurt their chances of re-election.

Party leaders have been hoping to strengthen Democratic control of the House and Senate in November, but John McCain’s jump in the polls has stoked fears of a Republican resurgence.

Democratic fundraiser for Congressional candidates said some planned to distance themselves from Mr Obama and not attack Mr McCain.

“If people are voting for McCain it could help Republicans all the way down the ticket, even in a year when the Democrats should be sweeping all before us,” said the fundraiser, a former Hillary Clinton supporter.

“There is a growing sense of doom among Democrats I have spoken to . . . People are going crazy, telling the campaign ‘you’ve got to do something’.”

Concern was greatest among first-term representatives who won seats in traditionally Republican districts in the landslide of 2006. “Several of them face a real fight to hold on to those seats,” the fundraiser said.

Tony Podesta, a senior Democratic lobbyist, said members of Congress were “a little nervous” after Mr McCain shook up the race with his choice of Sarah Palin as running mate and intensified attacks on Mr Obama.

“Republicans have been on the offensive for the past two weeks . . . You don’t win elections on the defensive.”

The campaign manager for a first-term Democratic congressman from a blue-collar district in the north-east rejected suggestions that Mr Obama had become a liability. He said his candidate would reach out to Republicans and avoid attacks on Mr McCain.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c2f69ce-8031-11dd-99a9-000077b07658.html


And with the latest talking point we're hearing all over the place from Democrat talking heads: "Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor" which I can't believe will generate a lot of support from much of anybody, things are looking up if you're on the more conservative side of this.

I'm not laying odds that the GOP will regain control of the House or Senate, but it is looking better that the GOP won't be taking a bloodbath in the Congressional elections in November after all.
Foxfyre
 
  4  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 05:52 pm
And the new Obama bashing McCain ad this week says:
"1982, John McCain goes to Washington. Things have changed in the last 26 years, but McCain hasn't. He admits he still doesn't know how to use a computer, can't send an e-mail, still doesn't understand the economy, and favors two hundred billion in new tax cuts for corporations, but almost nothing for the middle class. After one president who was out of touch, we just can't afford more of the same."

Again Obama's team didn't do their research. From a 2000 Boston.com in depth piece on McCain. (The whole thing is a good read for those who want to get a better sense about the man):

Quote:
McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.

http://graphics.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/McCain_character_loyal_to_a_fault+.shtml
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 06:03 pm
@Foxfyre,
Washington Post short term revisionism? The lefties strike back, kind of.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/548bfqty.asp
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 06:52 pm
@Foxfyre,
Fox,

Both of your two most recent posts seem to espouse a democratic panic, a sense of fear towards the possibility of a McCain victory way beyond its actual possibility and this is echoed by David Brooks on tonight's PBS's News Hour . His recommendation to the Dems is to just cool it. Although I think McCain's chances have risen, the election is still Obama's to lose. Pollster experts verify McCain's rise but still think we should wait at least another 5-7 days for the Palin phenomenon to settle in.

The News Hour showed a town meeting recently (I forget the location) where an almost irate supporter wanted to know, given all the money his supporters had donated, when he was going to respond to all of McCain's nasty (what’s good for the goose is good for the gander) campaign ads. The supporter was almost frantic. As far as I'm concerned, though, the best time the Dems had to close ranks was at their convention where the placement of Hilary on the ticket would have probably made the Dem ticket practically unbeatable.

But given that McCain/Palin gets elected I can't think of an expression to described the Dems wrath (What is actually madder than a wet hen anyway?), so would anything actually get done with the results of the election being a McCain chief executive and a Dem Congress?

By the way where is Michelle Obama? Didn't see her at the 9/11 thing with Barack, John, and Cindy. I Think a debate between Cindy and Michelle would be informative, well at least Cindy would be informative but Michelle could inform us also don't you think?
Wink

JM
okie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 09:22 pm
@JamesMorrison,
I think there is a bit of panic in Democratic ranks. If all Obama can come up with is running ads making fun of McCain not using a computer, I would have to say the guy is pretty dumb.

Question, is there a possibility that Biden will resign in favor of Clinton running as vp, here very soon if the polls do not go Obama's way? And if that did happen, how would that affect peoples view of Obama? I don't think it will happen, I think Michelle vetoed it, but I heard it as a possibility yet.
okie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Sep, 2008 09:34 pm
@JamesMorrison,
Good assessment, James, and I agree pretty much across the board. I think she has alot of promise as well, any fears of her being sort of a loose cannon or impulsive, or just totally out of her element on the national stage I think was laid to rest as far as I am concerned. I think she is smart enough to use all of the brains around her. Her answers about Pakistan illustrated alot of wisdom, better than that of Obama on the same subject many moons ago, that all options are on the table, but she did not get suckered into saying we should or should not cross the border. Wise choice of words. Same with the Israel exchange

Maybe it is my perception, but as Gibson goes through these interviews, I get a sense that his holier than thou attitude may be melting a little bit toward Palin, perhaps she may be winning him over with her honest and frank answers. Sure she lacks experience in some areas, but she has the right answers and the most logical answers almost all the time.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:04 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

I think there is a bit of panic in Democratic ranks. If all Obama can come up with is running ads making fun of McCain not using a computer, I would have to say the guy is pretty dumb.

Question, is there a possibility that Biden will resign in favor of Clinton running as vp, here very soon if the polls do not go Obama's way? And if that did happen, how would that affect peoples view of Obama? I don't think it will happen, I think Michelle vetoed it, but I heard it as a possibility yet.


Biden resigning? Do you think his ego would allow that? Would that even be legal without approval from the party? Shouldn't somebody other than the Presidential candidate have a say about who will be Vice President?

It would be fun watching those who have given Biden such huge accolades fall all over themselves to switch horses though. Smile

0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:19 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

And the new Obama bashing McCain ad this week says:
"1982, John McCain goes to Washington. Things have changed in the last 26 years, but McCain hasn't. He admits he still doesn't know how to use a computer, can't send an e-mail, still doesn't understand the economy, and favors two hundred billion in new tax cuts for corporations, but almost nothing for the middle class. After one president who was out of touch, we just can't afford more of the same."

Again Obama's team didn't do their research. From a 2000 Boston.com in depth piece on McCain. (The whole thing is a good read for those who want to get a better sense about the man):

Quote:
McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.

http://graphics.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/McCain_character_loyal_to_a_fault+.shtml


That's a ridiculous excuse for not being familiar with current technology. There are, and have been for years, technologies for adapting computers to various handicaps. People paralyzed from the neck down use computers and send e-mails. If he isn't familiar with (or interested in learning about) such adaptive measures he isn't very forward looking... Again making Obama's point.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:27 am
Perhaps, Squinney, but I know a couple of brilliant older PhDs who decided they'll let others do computer stuff and who have staff to look stuff up on computers and who do not use computers themselves. If you can't have fun with a computer, I can see how a person who doesn't have to use one might choose not to bother. I would hate to think that we've set the bar so low that ability to send e-mails is a criteria for President of the United States.

Meanwhile, here is an interesting commentary taking McCain and the GOP to task for blowing the "Lipstick on a Pig" bruhaha out of proportion and also pointing out the Obama campaign's propensity to whine "swiftboating" whenever criticized about anything.

Lipstick, Dipstick
A Commentary By Debra J. Saunders
Thursday, September 11, 2008
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_debra_j_saunders/lipstick_dipstick
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  4  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:35 am
@okie,
I was watching Dee Dee Myers and another babe on 20/20 with George Stephanopoulos last night doing a post mortem on the Palin interviews, all were presidential spokespersons at one time and they all seemed to give her at least a C if not a B minus on her performance. Their main complaint was she seemed unfamiliar or uncomfortable with the issues and that she seemed to depend too much on the Talking Point "index cards" but at this point this seems understandable to me. The campaign will probably use the videos of the interviews to set up an education program for her. But at this point I think Meyers brought up the most important quality of the interviews: Palin made no mistakes or gaffs.

I think Gibson's aggressive questioning may, in part, stem from the criticism he received from his monitoring that debate where all the candidates seemed to steam roll over him and he lost control. Seems he tried to appear tough by repeatedly asking for a "Yes" or "NO" answer to a question that required a nuanced answer (The Pakistan thing but he did the same thing last night,). My Feeling is that he is a senior member on the JV ABC interview team--they should have had George do it.

I think Palin has promise. When Palin is unfamiliar with the topic she reverts to generalized dogma and looks uncomfortable but makes no mistakes. This just is temporary. But when she is familiar with the topic she's an alley cat. She really seems passionate and dedicated to her ideology. This is good, for we all know what happens when Republicans forget why they were elected. One only needs to look to the 2006 med-term elections for an answer.

Not to beat a dead horse, but, has anybody seen Michelle since the DNC?

JM
squinney
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Sep, 2008 08:45 am
@JamesMorrison,
Has anyone seen Michelle? Rolling Eyes

Obama has mentioned a few times that the girls have started school. I imagine she's home being a parent and tending to making sure they are getting an education.

What did you mean by asking that question?

 

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