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The 2008 Republican Convention...

 
 
hamburger
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:07 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
i'm just watching from across the northern fence .
usually i tune in to MSNBC(business channel) several times a day .
increasing national debt , higher unemployment , more home-foreclosures , the cost of the wars ... ... and on it goes .

BOTH canditates are promising to lower taxes - if i'm not mistaken - , can they squeeze "blood from a stone" ?

since the canadian economy is rather closely interwoven with the U.S. economy , i sure hope the U.S. economy will recover soon and strongly .
unfortunately , the reports from the markets are slightly gloomy .

where is the money to achieve all that's being promised going to come from ?
hbg


(btw canada will likely have an election before the U.S. election . it hasn't been called yet , but once it's called , it will be over and done with within 6 - six - weeks ) .


H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:24 am
@hamburger,
hamburger wrote:



BOTH canditates are promising to lower taxes - if i'm not mistaken - , can they squeeze "blood from a stone" ?




Obama wants to cut some taxes and raise most, but unlike McCain - Obama also wants to grow government and increase spending.

McCain wants to cut taxes, reduce the size of government and reduce spending.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  5  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:40 am
@Diest TKO,
BUMP with color emphasis.
Diest TKO wrote:

AP wrote:
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer
Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET


ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform " not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.

Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.


MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state " by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right " change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington " throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

___

Associated Press Writer Jim Drinkard in Washington contributed to this report.


source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check



T
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FreeDuck
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:43 am
@Diest TKO,
Factcheck.org has theirs up now too.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:43 am
@Diest TKO,
Obama wants to cut some taxes and raise most.
Unlike McCain - Obama also wants to grow the size of government and increase spending.
Obama also plans to give away 100's of millions to foreign countries.
FreeDuck
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:45 am
@H2O MAN,
Hey, uh, AUM ... shouting it louder wont make it more true.
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:45 am
@Diest TKO,
The Tax Policy Center analysis of the tax plans is interesting. They also looked at the health care proposals of both candidates:

Quote:
In the July 23 update of its analysis, TPC added a preliminary estimate of the candidates’ health care proposals. Because the campaigns did not provide complete plans, TPC assumed certain details. We conclude that the McCain plan, which would replace the current exclusion for employer-paid premiums with a refundable income tax credit of up to $5000 for anyone purchasing of health insurance and make other changes to the healthcare system, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years and modestly trim the number of uninsured. The Obama plan, which would make relatively low-cost insurance available to everyone through non-group pools and subsidize premiums for low- and moderate-income households, would cost $1.6 trillion, but would also cover virtually all children and many currently uninsured adults.

TPC projects the McCain plan would trim the uninsured by 1 million in 2009 and nearly 5 million by 2013, although their numbers would slowly rise thereafter because the tax credit would fail to keep pace with premiums (see figure). Obama would reduce the uninsured by 18 million in 2009 and 34 million by 2018. Even under the Obama plan, however, 34 million Americans would still lack insurance in 2018.


link
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:59 am
@FreeDuck,
And yet you neglected sharing the same information with TKO Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:14 am
As the Convention is now over and this thread has probably run most of its useful life at least so far as convention stuff, lets move the bipartisan discussion HERE: http://able2know.org/topic/121961-1
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:19 am
As for McCain's speech...

It was a really great speech. He delivered well, and speaking like this is NOT is strong suit. He kept his momentum well and delivered what would be a perfect bi-partisan speech.

Having said that, I'm disappointed. Not for the reasons you might think though. I'm disappointed, because it's a waste. This speech would be out of the park if McCain had not launched such an aggressive hyper-partisan attack campaign. McCain has already stated that he thinks Obama is not ready to lead. This was his chance to say something new. Repeating this mantra is now old hat; it doesn't have the potency it used to. Had he given this speech minus the attack strategy before hand it would have been a sea change.

The problem now is message control. The RNC was back and forth between being a reforming "America First" party one second and the next a mob of angry partisan anti-liberals. McCain delivered one hell of a speech that was targeted towards a swing vote community that wants to trust him.

He said he wants to earn our trust. Well, last night a large group of Americans will give him a chance to do just that. He'll have a big bump for this. People will get excited. But when it comes time to actually illustrate that he is not just another Republican with the same old tested and failed ideas, people are going to be paying a lot more attention.

Not just attention to him, but Palin too. The swing voters are going to have to struggle with the positive feelings they have about the ideas he put forth last night and the suspicion that it's just well delivered lip service when they look at how Palin handled the stage. It's just such a dramatic contrast in message and no campaign can do both and be received as being sincere about either.

When I look at the two nominee's VP picks, I'm left with one major impression.

When Obama picked Biden it was obviously meant to augment his own experience and offer some reassurance to the voter that he hears their concerns and wants them to have confidence in his administration. Biden can help an administration.

When McCain picked Palin he said he liked her "maverick" spirit. This was to (obviously) attach his best brand onto her and give people something to expect from her. The idea here is that she is in tune with the notion that mavericks bring change and reform, a theme which Obama has monopolized since entering the race. But with such a sharp contrast between Palin and McCain, how can this claim be sincere? What's novel about it?

What jumps off the stage at the RNC for me is that the public is supposed to witness one thing and take their word to believe it's something else.

McCain's speech was very moving, but in short, it's too late. It's not believable. It puts the center back into play at least. It's just so late for McCain to finally start campaigning "for McCain" and not "against Obama."

I'm not impressed with the RNC. Night after night of the same angry pulpit stump soapboxing about how stupid the dems are, and then after all that we're supposed to believe that the republican vote for president is above that.

I'm starting to think that the GOP is red only to hide their blushing while they clap and cheer for a man condemning the exact thing which they clapped and cheered for the day before.

The RNC could care less about reform, they just want another republican in office, but they'll clap if it helps them get that.

T
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Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:22 am
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Hey, uh, AUM ... shouting it louder wont make it more true.

Somebody tell Guilliani...

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H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:22 am
@Diest TKO,
You can just feel the groundswell of support for McCain & Palin building up.

Change is coming and it's not coming from Obama.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:25 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

"don't do as we do, do as we say" along with "to continue doing exactly what we've been doing for the last 8 years is the change that we need".


That is the mantra of the left.


oh. you know, you might want to tell larry craig, david vitter, bob packwood, mark foley, ted haggard, newt gingrich, jim baker and tom delay that they're singing the other party's tune. mcain himself has hummed along on a few choruses of that beloved old tune, "the sanctity of marriage".

since they all have deemed themselves so godlike as to tell other people how to live their personal lives, it might be good for them to practice what they preach.

btw, if you think that the left, the center or moderate republicans are calling for the continuation of the fiasco of the last eight years... Rolling Eyes

i can tell that mccain's words of bi-partisanship really effected you in a deep and personal way.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:27 am
@Not a Soccer Mom,
Actually, Palin should have self-destructed by now, but the conservatives are in full climax-mode just thinking of her.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:29 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Hey, uh, AUM ... shouting it louder wont make it more true.

Somebody tell Guilliani...


jeez, and lindsay graham too. the righteous indignation meter went off the scale.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:31 am
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

"don't do as we do, do as we say" along with "to continue doing exactly what we've been doing for the last 8 years is the change that we need".


That is the mantra of the left.


oh. you know, you might want to tell larry craig, david vitter, bob packwood, mark foley, ted haggard, newt gingrich, jim baker and tom delay that they're singing the other party's tune. mcain himself has hummed along on a few choruses of that beloved old tune, "the sanctity of marriage".

since they all have deemed themselves so godlike as to tell other people how to live their personal lives, it might be good for them to practice what they preach.

btw, if you think that the left, the center or moderate republicans are calling for the continuation of the fiasco of the last eight years... Rolling Eyes

i can tell that mccain's words of bi-partisanship really effected you in a deep and personal way.


You do understand that the Democrat party is the party of "Do as I say - not as I do" and " I got mine, how are you doing?"

That's Democratic bi-partisanship at it's best.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:36 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

You can just feel the groundswell of support for McCain & Palin building up.

Change is coming and it's not coming from Obama.

Nobody's doubting that McCain will get a big bump for his speech. Of McCain isn't on top by 2 points and hold it for at least 2 weeks, I can't see how he's going to stay in this without returning to the same old attack adds. Returning to the old strategy will only tread water.

Both McCain and Obama are going to have real big challenges in the debates. McCain is going to need to close the gap as much as possible before then. Both will make mistakes in the debates (particularly the first) so having the buffer is going to be an edge for Obama. If McCain is running out of things to say.

Dems are dumb
Obama isn't ready
Drill Drill Drill

They all lose their potency over time. He's played all his spades, and he's gambling on Palin having enough to break even. Meanwhile, with Biden's coordinated teamwork, Obama's outreach to voters and steady message is the face cards that he need's to catch the remaining trips in the election.

McCain does not have a card face. However, like I've said before, I guess he played so poorly in the beginning that he is forced to take bigger risks now. Not much of a strategic gambler.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:50 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:

"don't do as we do, do as we say" along with "to continue doing exactly what we've been doing for the last 8 years is the change that we need".


That is the mantra of the left.


oh. you know, you might want to tell larry craig, david vitter, bob packwood, mark foley, ted haggard, newt gingrich, jim baker and tom delay that they're singing the other party's tune. mcain himself has hummed along on a few choruses of that beloved old tune, "the sanctity of marriage".

since they all have deemed themselves so godlike as to tell other people how to live their personal lives, it might be good for them to practice what they preach.

btw, if you think that the left, the center or moderate republicans are calling for the continuation of the fiasco of the last eight years... Rolling Eyes

i can tell that mccain's words of bi-partisanship really effected you in a deep and personal way.


You do understand that the Democrat party is the party of "Do as I say - not as I do" and " I got mine, how are you doing?"

That's Democratic bi-partisanship at it's best.


hah!

it's not that you don't get it, you just don't care.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 11:01 am
@DontTreadOnMe,
DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:

Hey, uh, AUM ... shouting it louder wont make it more true.

Somebody tell Guilliani...


jeez, and lindsay graham too. the righteous indignation meter went off the scale.

Like I said: Amateur open mic nights all week at the RNC.

I like thinking of two rival high school football teams getting ready to play each other. The DNC and RNC are the coaches and the players are the candidates.

The DNC rallied the team by reminding them of how well they've practiced and the power of their skills. The coaches talked them through how the other team beat them in the past and what to be ready for. The team enters the field confident because they feel like they've got what's needed.

The RNC just seems to think they'll win if they are pumped up. They enter the field feeling confident because they've beat the other team before and they don't need a strategy to beat them again if they just play the same old game.

Here's the kickoff.

T
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H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 11:25 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:


The RNC just seems to think they'll win if they are pumped up.



Suggestion: Maybe you should have watched the convention before commenting on it.
0 Replies
 
 

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