Help! What can I do for my daughter?

Rollercoaster is right! I'm so glad they're going to counselling, not just for their future but to hopefully show Greg the results of his actions. A little more thought or perhaps some counselling on his own could have averted this impulsive and hurtful behaviour.

Thanks again, all. I don't believe infidelity was involved - he was attracted to this girl-woman, but apparently it didn't get beyond that.

For your daughter's peace of mind and personal safety, please encourage her to require he get tested anyway.

And you're not suggesting that troops returning home from overseas duty, or diplomats & Co, be tested as well.

What does that say about American women?

Mame: Can you give us a recent update? How is your daughter?

I don't know why, but I feel compelled to check on your daughter. (I wish I could IM you.) I check the thread and no updates have been posted recently. I'm not sure why thoughts about your posts, your daughter, and her welfare keep popping into my head--maybe it's just my inner alarm--perhaps I find his sudden change of heart suspect.... Therefore, I'm listening to my gut and I'm asking: How is the situation progressing? What is your gut telling you?

Denise said:

[quote]but what does he expect? he is a stranger to me and not someone i trust or feel good around. i feel so betrayed and deceived by him. this is my body and i don't feel comfortable with him around. he has walked away from certain privileges of having a family. i realize that i have a need to punish him but i also need to keep my distance with him. i will obviously share all pertinent information with him about the baby's development.[/quote]

Mame said:

[quote]Anyway, I'm not interested in assigning blame - what is the point of that? We all do what we need to do, so if Greg decided he needed to do this, then the fact is Denise is on her own and must learn to deal with it. Yes, it's an ugly shock, but I wonder if, a few months from now, she doesn't start talking about the signs she didn't or wouldn't see. She has the chance to learn a lot about herself and her part in all this. I hope she capitalizes on it.[/quote]

She hasn't fallen far from the tree, has she? Lucky girl.

Strong women always have a greater chance to change things for the better.

Has anyone heard from Mame recently?

mmmmmmmmm....... nope......



(fires off email....)

Hi Debra, Izzie, Diane...

Thanks for your comments and concerns. Denise had not communicated since I last wrote, but as a matter of fact, she called last night. She talked for two hours.

They have been to counselling several times, both individually and together. She mentioned that she's been thinking back on various behaviours of both of theirs that likely led up to this. Apparently she wanted to get some counselling earlier and he didn't think they needed to. That's too bad. If they'd gone, she probably wouldn't be expecting another baby.

I think bottom-line is that they're just so very different and while that worked for a while, their terrible year put so much stress on them as a unit that it just broke down. Or maybe her serious nature conflicted too much with his happy-go-lucky-can't-make-a-decision style? At any rate, not enough communicating was done early enough and apparently it's over for good, from both their perspectives.

I think she's realizing the cause was due to both of them, not just him (despite his interest in Laura), which is really healthy. She has the chance here to learn a lot about herself; I would love it if she took this opportunity.

Eh, we'll see what happens.

Thanks again for your interest and concern, Debra. And I wish we could IM, too. I miss it It would have been great to have had some of your insight personally.

Wow.
....



wow


I dont know what to say..

Men and women are incompatible Mame. Why don't you face up to it. Religion is an attempt, foolish I know, to try to get round the scientific fact of it.

There's surrender of course but that's not an option in the psychological world we live in. Reducing the need for protective males is the cause and I know you are in favour of that.

spendi, you're a very interesting fella and I always appreciate your slightly twisted comments Really, I do.

What I'm in favour of is "live and let live" and that about sums it up.

Shewolfnm - yeah...but not the end of the world

And I want to say thank you to everyone. I've had other things happen this year that i haven't written about and seeing your support here on this one really makes me feel good. So thank you. All comments, opinions, etc welcome, as usual.

That compliment more than cancels out every insult I have suffered on A2K and there have been a large number.

I have always found that ladies uncross their legs faster if they find you interesting.

What's that verse in Desolation Row about it takes one to know one she smiles?

Something to do with Bette Davis wasn't it?

you know my story...

sometimes, even with love and all good intention... it just 'aint gonna happen. When a family is ripped apart for..... whatever the reasons, tragic in some, no matter how much you wanna it to be tied up in a pretty little box with bows and ribbons - sometimes, it just doesn't.

IMO - doesn't make it right, doesn't make it wrong. You have to figure out the best way forward for the adults - if the adults aren't happy - the children won't be.

Grey and Denise lost a child... they didn't get the happily ever after... perhaps then the changes that occured were too much to bear. I can relate to that. Yep, would be wonderful to try again... how many times do you try - sometimes it can lead onto many oher reasons to end a marriage - and the kids will suffer then too. That IMO can destroy a person, not just amarriage.

ONLY Greg and Denise can decide where their future lies - they need the time to do it.... I hope they will continue counselling, but it takes two to go thru that. I chose not to.... I had my reasons.

My boys dad and I live a few miles apart - we are very very close (tho we still spat over the tragedy and our eldest son) - that will always be the case. He has moved on, is in a relatioship, I moved on - not so in a relationship. There is life after marriage.

I disgree with Spendi (there's a thing) - men and women are not incompatible - not always.... I don't believe that. But thats my opinion - and neither here nor there.

I wish them both luck Mame. I wish you luck in the support you will need to give, even if doesnt seem the right thing to do, go with your heart. above all, the kids need a father (IMO) and if they can make this work, together or apart, so the kids have 2 parents whom they see.... well, all the best to them.

I don't think most people set out to hurt and be bad.... we are all good at judging,,, but the full and bigger picture is only known by the two in in the relationship.

Much love to you and yours Mame. I know this will be hard for you too - but you are a mighty fine lady and you will help when she needs your support and you will stand back when you see she can pick herself up. You're a great mom - you care and love her and you'll be there for her when she needs you. You communicate well with her.... keep the communication going and she will figure out what SHE wants to do from now.... if she controls her decisions, they will be the right ones, they have to be - she sounds strong... it may not be the case.... but strength also comes from ones around you who are there just to listen and not to stick their opinions down her throat.

I think she will be fine Mame..... but it's gonna take her a long time, and a lot of support from those who care about her.

Lovin you gal

Iz x

You know what Spendi.... whatever you think we think of you - if you do - you ain't a tough bloke who wantonly attempts to hurt folk IMO .... i don't believe in insulting folk....

You have much respect for some people here.... I know Mame is one of them.

you ain't a bad bloke....

HA.... get over it! You're actually not a bad bloke - not that that means sh!te - but hey, as you know, I'll post when I feel strong enough about it. So. Done.

Here's the latest from her side:

i really appreciated the conversation last night. i got off feeling much more empowered, focussed, and clear-headed. of course, tonight is a different story! i need to keep hearing all that stuff about letting go, being the bigger person, not getting bitter etc. and also, just keep reminding myself that despite my resentment and anger towards greg, i am really grieving the loss of what no longer will be...more than a lost love that i am still pining for. but why do i feel so discouraged and that this was all my fault? why is he not suffering like me? why is this so easy and straight forward for him? why the hell did he initiate this and not me!? i am upset with myself for holding out on this marriage when neither of us were happy or meeting our own needs. i feel foolish for having been in denial for so long...and that he (of whom i've always felt smarter than) figured it out and acted on it before me. sounds childish, i know.

i hate him and i love him - my feelings are so ambiguous and contradictory. i want to punish him for initiating this and making me look/feel like a fool. most of all, i am angry that he added yet another loss to my life. for making me so vulnerable. for forcing me to be alone and living a life that i didn't choose.

now that i have decided (rationally and cognitively) that our marriage is truly is over and that i cannot live with the person he is/has become, i am struggling with what to do next? while we haven't officially acknowledged that it's over to one another (i am sure that will come soon), i have no idea what to say or how to tell our friends that don't know or haven't heard the story. any advice? i don't want to tarnish his name but i feel i would be minimizing my pain if our friends weren't privy to certain details. i know, i know, it's inappropriate and wrong. i won't say anything to them other than "we've grown apart" or "we want different things".

anyways, that's my 'check-in'. thanks for reading.

wow.

Again, just .........wow.
If I had HALF her maturity I tell you what.
(implanning a break up myself.. but I wont go there. )

So what can one person say to offer them any solstice when they sound like they have all the answers?
i can only imagine what that must feel like, and I can surely think of a few things to say to him even though I dont know him...

but.. what can you say? what can you do?

i tell you what.
If that were my daughter, as selfish as it sounds, I would be overflowing with pride.
She sounds like one amazing woman. Damn lady you did well ..

Looks like, Denise has started the mourning process while Greg still doesn't
know what he's lost. By the time Greg realizes what a fatal mistake he's made, it will be too late.

As a mother you would have hoped to spare Denise from this painful experience, but at the same token, she's incredible brave and classy about
it. You indeed can be proud of her, she turned out great, and she deserves
someone great.

Mame: Thanks for the update. I was worried for your daughter. I was afraid that her husband's sudden change of heart had ulterior purposes. For instance, he may have consulted a divorce attorney and learned that abruptly abandoning his pregnant wife and small child in favor of his young mistress would make him look very bad in the eyes of the court. I was afraid that he distanced himself from his girlfriend (temporarily) under the guise of working things out with his wife and agreed to counseling--all for the purpose of making himself look better--and not because he really wanted to remain married. She is vulnerable and probably not guarding herself against possible manipulations. Again, I was suspicious and was worried for your daughter. I hope the worst is behind her now.

What Jane said.

So, update time... he's moved back into the house because the air mattress on the floor of his sister's place was "uncomfortable". What's uncomfortable is having him live with Denise, act like they're just friends and then he's off at night on his dates. Anyway, enough of that.

She's seeing a lawyer, then planning on mediation, then getting it finalized by a lawyer. He doesn't want any legal advice - thinks they can do it day by day. I think not! He's already said he can't afford the mandated child support but oh yes, I think he can. He expects her to take his situation into account, financially. The house is on the market, so good luck with that.

He has no problem with her taking Lucy to visit her brother in November or spending Christmas with her dad. So that's good. So far.

But she's done and they're done, so now it's just getting through it and moving forward.

I'll spend most of Feb there helping her pre and post birth and I sure hope he's not there when I arrive. When I leave, other parents will take over. I'm sure he'll feel uncomfortable enough to not be there when we are. What a maroon.