Help! What can I do for my daughter?

Exactly. The dude coulda picked a better moment. Man oh manischewitz.

Hugs to you, Mame, and to Denise (Mame jr.).

I'm rather afraid to say, as I know you Americans only like to be told what you want to be told, that the situation Mame describes is a direct and obvious consequence of the decline of Christian beliefs.

Despite it being all too common I am surprised that there is not much more of it. When people look within themselves for dignity, "finding themselves", they have basically had it. Wherever they go it will be the same once the novelty wears off. And I think a society of such people is in terminal decline if I may be allowed an opinion for once. It is a symptom of the desire for freedom and the expression of the self which Christian religious discipline was invented to inhibit and control.

One of the primary aims, if not the primary aim, of the Marxist is the destruction of the family. Soviet children were encouraged by their teachers to report on their parents regarding signs of political disaffection. The Great Leader is jealous of all love but that for himself.

Mame's story cannot help but cause some people to have reservations about getting married at all and thus itself furthers the cause. As if there are not enough natural reservations in the ordinary course of things.

Perhaps my father's generation never felt the need to find themselves but if they did they quickly dismissed it from their minds to save them trekking to the Poles or climbing Mt Everest.

After all, the leading Darwinian is on his third marriage so one might presume he has left behind him a trail of devastated people who thought they liked his ideas until they manifested in concrete form rather than as abstractions.

You might consider bringing your daughter to where you are Mame.

X

spendius, I thought for just once that you would control your impulse to insert your right wing ideology into a tragic situation where it is neither relevant nor helpful. But you couldn't, could you? It's always about you, isn't it? Shame!

BBB

Mame I am so sorry that your daughter is going to have go through a marital breakup with a young child, a baby on the way and the emotional distress that goes with it. Life on life's terms is so unfair sometimes.

Seaglass

Mame, I glad that your daughter is not lashing out at her husband for the sake of her children. As often happens, once he has worn out his little affair, he may wake up and realize he's made a mistake and will want to return to his wife and children. Your daughter's hurt will always remain but, who knows, they may be able to put their family back together again.

I've never met your daughter, but I have great regard and care for you. I know how hard it is and how helpless you must feel being so far from her. But in the end, she is the one who has to survive for her own sake and for her children.

Love,
BBB

I don't agree with the theory that a bad time was picked, as I doubt that this guy picked this time. The correct time for him to report that he does not want to do the marriage anymore is the moment that he is sure, as hanging in and pretending will always lead to bitterness or self hate or some such problem.

Note: I personally don't believe in divorce, and if this guy would have felt that divorce was not an option then he would have been forced to confront the feelings or emptiness that he has rather than try to make them go away by divorce, and he probably would have needed to change himself so that the marriage would work for him. Hopefully these two people have the same concept of marriage, that ending it if they don't want to do anymore is a right.

BBB wrote-



You "thought" too much.

I was trying to show Mame that it is the way of the world and not really her own fault or that of her daughter and son-in-law.

Is "right-wing ideology an all purpose insult you use? If it was all about me I wouldn't even bother giving Mame my advice. I certainly can't see what your advice is meant to achieve except maybe as a posture of caring and loving kindness on your part.

I trust you don't contribute to the decline of Christian religious belief.

Being a cause is very handy when one specialises in mopping up the tears.

I think your contributions are in the service of your self-worth. I have no self-worth. My advice is without side. And Mame is a big enough woman to judge it for herself without your help.

Yup. Cute young thing in hand; marriage, kids, diapers, grief far away. So he chooses to run away from responsibility.

This "man" is an idiot. So is the cute young thing. He's leaving his first wife and kids for her... what happens five years down the road when she has a kid on the way?

I to the D to the I O T S.

A-hole.

That just got you on ignore....

I'm sorry that you and your daughter are going through this.

I meant what I said above. IMO, this has very little to do with your daughter, and very much to do with this jerk running away from his responsibilities.

DD wrote-



That's out of date now. It's four.

And it is "FABulous" closing your ears and eyes to anything you don't want to face up to. I call it the Mom's Apron option.

Some use to Mame being told the guy's a jerk running away from his responsibilities. What's she supposed to take out of that? Comfort?

Well, everyone sees marriage differently, and if one approaches it in a religious sense or in a more pragmatic way, is not that important, as long
as both pull at the same string.

When my older neighbor's husband ran off with this secretary, she always
used to say: "His secretary is a young dumb girl, and he's an old fart - those two deserve each other!" Then she laughed it off - every time!
---

What I don't get is: how can a guy love his wife, consciously make a choice
to have another child, and then a few months later change his mind 180 degrees where he doesn't love her anymore and cares so little for her to
leave her while being pregnant. THIS I would never forgive!

Neither would I.

it is easy for me to suspect that this guy was fighting for the last two years to move beyond the death of their child, fighting to help move the marriage beyond this and thus thought that having another child was a good idea. He likely was told such in conseling, told that he and the marriage had to keep moving. Becoming overwhelmed and deciding to opt out is a moment, tipping points are moments, he would have been as surprised as his wife is at the speed of him deciding to leave.

There's truth and relevance in what everybody has said so far, and it does help. What strikes me the most at the moment is the following I've quoted, the first part because I agree and the second part because it's logical and true. I wish he had gone this route first, given the youth of the kids, instead of taking the easy and lazy way out.



Here's part of an email she sent me last night, so you know where she's at:

I have taken a lot of what you said to heart and am hearing it all. I already feel much better tonight (after having spent 5 hours at Michelle's house) and while I am incredibly angry with Greg for all of this, I can appreciate or have some respect his feelings. He feels how he feels - you can't negotiate that. I don't agree with a thing he says (i.e. in terms of how bad the relationship was but again, you can't argue perception either). However, it's the way he's gone about it that has been so deceiving and cowardly.

He advised me, shortly after my conversation with you, that he and Laura have talked and she is stepping back. Likely because she does not want her name dragged around but nonetheless a wise move. I suspect, however, that they might plan to reunite in a short while once the news of our separation is out and in the open. This is me being suspicious of course but I am suspect he is trying to avoid the heat he will get from others of what is ultimately his doing. I understand that she was not the cause of our separation but I still resent her immensely and want very much for her to be accountable in some way. I know it's petty and vindictive but this is the space I am in. Their relationship just makes it easier for me to point the finger. I heard what you said though about not focussing on them and just doing what I need to do. I really need to stop caring about what others will think or stop trying to influence what others think by the information I give them (and ultimately making me look like the good guy). But it's hard not to want to do that - it's the small little bit of power that I feel I have.

She's come a long way in two short days. I think she's going to be fine. Probably need a lot of help down the road, but her backbone is in place.

Well, Denise is her mother's daughter - from her mail excerpts I read the
same determination and strength I gather from yours, Mame. She will
get through this, and she won't have him back, once she's finished with the
grief over her marriage.

Thank you, CJ - hey, love your pic! Love, love, love it!

Thank you! georbeob1 worked on me to finally drop the old lady avatar.

mame :

can't add much to what has been said already .
you last entry sounds positive !
someone mentioned about "financial implications" (joint credit cards , bank accounts etc .) .
that is probably something that someone should try and take care of immediately !
matters of the heart come first , but ... ...
best to you and your daughter !
hbg

I really can't understand why you ladies don't give us men the go-by.

We are no good. It's true.

Why would there be millions of songs, plays, books, movies, and all, about the trials of love if it is all as simple as some people make it out to be?