61
   

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:20 pm
@wandeljw,
So he's placed himself in the situation of Miss California. She lost, he lost.
She has an excuse -- a blond bimbo. What's his excuse?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:25 pm
@farmerman,
You were right FM, it's like a whack-a-mole game, every time one of 'em sticks their head up they get whacked if they don't hide fast enough.

Creationism should go back to hiding in the shadows, it was working better for them. Especially in an economic environment like we have now, I don't think people tolerate the stupidity as much any more.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:44 pm
@rosborne979,
Creationism or ID doesn't have to hide in the shadows -- it's in the churches or in endless blogs and websites like DI. It's preached by fundamentalists who have a willing audience. Nobody is forcing them to included the science of evolution and the facts supporting it -- the clerics each have their answers for any question that may come up in church about Genesis. They have their work cut out for them trying to reconcile the contradictions and gaping holes in the Bible, let alone trying to reconcile it with the natural world. I'm sure they've trained themselves to handle it whether they've attended classes in theology at or not. I doubt that they've also had classes and actually learned about evolution but there's always an exception.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:00 pm
@Lightwizard,
They were talking like the last three posts in the pub tonight so I asked the landlord to put Babestation on the telly to show them evolution in action. They nearly had a nervous breakdown.

Why I can't imagine.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:12 pm
I am so pleased at Texas right now. Spendi has just been shown that, indeed, there are more ways to skin a cat. (He just didnt realize that it was the cat he championed thats getting skinned)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 05:43 am
@farmerman,
If you made a big effort effemm, in the name of scientific credibilty, and cut out assertions from your discourse I do believe you would be rendered speechless.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 08:28 am
@farmerman,
The eyes of scientists and Creationuts/IDiots have been upon Texas and now after a cat wanders into the CSI operating room, it gets dissected and found to be a fake. Crime solved -- taking a stab at evolution, the fundamentalist zealots are now found to have committed theological suicide once again. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 08:50 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Spendi has just been shown...

Who? Is that troll still here?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 09:04 am
CANADA UPDATE
Quote:
Evolution classes optional under proposed Alberta law
(CBC News, April 30, 2009)

A controversial Alberta bill will enshrine into law the rights of parents to pull their children out of classes discussing the topics of evolution and homosexuality.

The new rules, which would require schools to notify parents in advance of "subject-matter that deals explicitly with religion, sexuality or sexual orientation," is buried in a bill that extends human rights to homosexuals. Parents can ask for their child to be excluded from the discussion.

"This government supports a very, very fundamental right and that is parental rights with respect to education," said Premier Ed Stelmach.

Although Stelmach has confirmed the bill will give parents the authority to exclude their kids from classes if the topic of evolution comes up, Education Minister Dave Hancock said it won't change anything.

"With respect to values, religion and sex education have always been areas of concern for parents, and they've always been areas parents have had the right to be notified about and to exempt their students from," Hancock said.

Frank Bruseker, the head of the Alberta Teachers' Association, is meeting with Hancock on Monday to raise his concerns.

"If parents don't want that kind of education for their children they have a couple of options," Bruseker said. "One would be home schooling or private school. So for a public school to start excluding based on religious preference, I think is a mistake."

Bruseker said it would be difficult for teachers to avoid the topic of evolution in science or geography classes.

The proposed legislation has touched off a debate about just what kind of image Alberta's government is trying to create around the world.

NDP Leader Brian Mason likened the bill to Alberta recently using a photo of a British beach in an ad to promote the province.

"This government just spent $25 million of taxpayers money to give Alberta a new image. All they've done is make Alberta look like Northumberland and sound like Arkansas," Mason said.

The new legislation could be passed within a few weeks.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 09:23 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

CANADA UPDATE
Quote:
Evolution classes optional under proposed Alberta law
(CBC News, April 30, 2009)

"If parents don't want that kind of education for their children they have a couple of options," Bruseker said. "One would be home schooling or private school. So for a public school to start excluding based on religious preference, I think is a mistake."


I think he's right. They're gonna get themselves into a difficult spot if they start letting students pick/choose which classes they will take based on their religion. The school will have to differentiate which diplomas it gives out (those with the standard batch of knowledge, and those that took the cafeteria plan).
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 09:54 am
@rosborne979,
I notice that the fan of the Marquis de Sade, what else can he be, besides being too wimpy to read my posts, he hides away from them, has descended to the depths with the troll shite.

He defines science the way he wants so it is understandable that he defines troll the way he wants. In both cases it is for the same reason. It's pathetic.

What is even more pathetic is that anti-IDers are scared of telling him how much he discredits their argument with his pointless and childish interjections all of which are predictable and repetitive and never show the slightest scientific knowledge.

He must want a thread consisting of nothing but snarling and sneering at the patsies wande puts up most of which are trivial incidents reported on by biased city based media. Which suggest a need to use A2K to snarl and sneer as catharsis for something or other. It can't be to debate the issues because recourse to Ignore has ducked that.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 01:05 pm
@rosborne979,
The first ala carte diplomas are soon gonna be here.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 01:15 pm
@rosborne979,
Rather than cafeteria plan, they should just call it the "jesus diploma."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 01:45 pm
@farmerman,
They have been here for years. Education is a business. One of the biggest. There's no money to be made out of people with high IQs. There are not enough of them. Educational establishments are not going to prosper if they set high standards. People want to be told how clever they are not how thick they are.

A lot of major employers here have their own exams because they no longer value most certifications from universities and colleges.


Let's face it--there isn't much easier than geology.

Which scientific subjects are you claiming are soft options for religious people?

Never have diplomas been easier than when society became more secularised.

Why don't you read The Higher Learning in America effemm. And that's about 80 years out of date.

Quote:
To the adepts who are occupied with this esoteric knowledge,
the scientists and scholars on whom its keeping devolves, the
matter will of course not appear in just that light; more
particularly so far as regards that special segment of the field
of knowledge with the keeping and cultivation of which they may,
each and several, be occupied. They are, each and several,
engaged on the perfecting and conservation of a special line of
inquiry, the objective end of which, in the view of its adepts,
will necessarily be the final and irreducible truth as touches
matters within its scope. But, seen in perspective, these adepts
are themselves to be taken as creatures of habit, creatures of
that particular manner of group life out of which their
preconceptions in matters of knowledge, and the manner of their
interest in the run of inquiry, have sprung. So that the terms of
finality that will satisfy the adepts are also a consequence of
habituation, and they are to be taken as conclusive only because
and in so far as they are consonant with the discipline of
habituation enforced by that manner of group life that has
induced in these adepts their particular frame of mind.
Perhaps at a farther remove than many other current
phenomena, but none the less effectually for that, the higher
learning takes its character from the manner of life enforced on
the group by the circumstances in which it is placed. These
constraining circumstances that so condition the scope and method
of learning are primarily, and perhaps most cogently, the
conditions imposed by the state of the industrial arts, the
technological situation; but in the second place, and scarcely
less exacting in detail, the received scheme of use and wont in
its other bearings has its effect in shaping the scheme of
knowledge, both as to its content and as touches the norms and
methods of its organization. Distinctive and dominant among the
constituent factors of this current scheme of use and wont is the
pursuit of business, with the outlook and predilections which
that pursuit implies. Therefore any inquiry into the effect which
recent institutional changes may have upon the pursuit of the
higher learning will necessarily be taken up in a peculiar degree
with the consequences which an habitual pursuit of business in
modern times has had for the ideals, aims and methods of the
scholars and schools devoted to the higher learning.


It's a commodity.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 10:59 am
Quote:
High school teacher found guilty of insulting Christians
(By SCOTT MARTINDALE, The Orange County Register, May 1, 2009)

SANTA ANA " A Mission Viejo high school history teacher violated the First Amendment by disparaging Christians during a classroom lecture, a federal judge ruled today.

James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, was found guilty of referring to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.

The decision is the culmination of a 16-month legal battle between Corbett and Farnan " a conflict the judge said should remind teachers of their legal “boundaries” as public school employees.

"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."

In a December 2007 lawsuit, Farnan, then a sophomore, accused Corbett of repeatedly promoting hostility toward Christians in class and advocating "irreligion over religion" in violation of the First Amendment's establishment clause.

The establishment clause prohibits the government from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion" and has been interpreted by U.S. courts to also prohibit government employees from displaying religious hostility.

"We are thrilled with the judge's ruling and feel it sets great precedent," said Farnan's attorney, Jennifer Monk, who works for the Christian legal group Advocates for Faith & Freedom in Murrieta. "Hopefully, teachers in the future, including Dr. Corbett, will think about what they're saying and attempt to ensure they're not violating the establishment clause as Dr. Corbett has done."

Chad Farnan and his parents did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment, but released a prepared statement through their attorney: "We are proud of Chad's courageous stand and thrilled with the judge's ruling. It is a vindication of his constitutional rights."

Farnan's original lawsuit asked for damages and attorney's fees. These issues " plus a possible court injunction prohibiting Corbett from making hostile remarks about religion " will be considered in court at a future, undetermined date, Monk said.

Advocates for Faith & Freedom does not have an estimate yet of the legal fees the group incurred, she added.

Selna said that although Corbett was only found guilty of violating the establishment clause in a single instance, he could not excuse or overlook the behavior.

"To entertain an exception for conduct that might be characterized as isolated or de minimis undermines the basic right in issue: to be free of a government that directly expresses disapproval of religion," Selna said.

Farnan's lawsuit had cited more than 20 inflammatory statements attributed to Corbett, including "Conservatives don't want women to avoid pregnancies " that's interfering with God's work" and "When you pray for divine intervention, you're hoping that the spaghetti monster will help you get what you want."

In an April 3 tentative ruling, however, Selna dismissed all but two of the statements as either not directly referring to religion or as being appropriate in the context of a class lecture, including the headline-grabbing "When you put on your Jesus glasses, you can't see the truth."

"We're happy that the court saw 99.9 percent of the case our way, but we're disappointed obviously with regard to finding against Dr. Corbett on that one statement," said Corbett's attorney, Dan Spradlin.

Corbett, who has declined all requests to be interviewed about the lawsuit, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

Selna applied a three-pronged legal analysis known as the Lemon test to determine whether the establishment clause had been violated.

The Lemon test, developed during a 1971 federal court case, asks whether a statement has a secular purpose, whether it advances or inhibits religion as its principal or primary effect, and whether it fosters an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.

Corbett made his "superstitious nonsense" remark during a class discussion about a 1993 court case in which former Capistrano Valley High science teacher John Peloza sued the Capistrano Unified School District, challenging its requirement that Peloza teach evolution.

Corbett's attorney said Corbett simply expressing his personal opinion that Peloza shouldn't have presented religious views to students. Selna, after reviewing an audio-taped recording of the discussion, decided that wasn't the case and that Corbett crossed a legal line.

For the other disputed statement " in which Corbett was accused of saying religion was "invented when the first con man met the first fool" " the judge ruled in Corbett's favor, arguing Corbett may have been simply attempting to quote American author Mark Twain.

Corbett's full statement was, "What was it Mark Twain said? 'Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.'"

The Capistrano Unified School District, which paid for Corbett's attorney, was found not liable for Corbett's classroom conduct.

Corbett remains in his teaching position at Capistrano Valley High. Farnan, who dropped out of Corbett's class after filing the lawsuit, is now a junior at the school.

"The court's ruling today reflects the constitutionally permissible need for expansive discussion even if a given topic may be offensive to a particular religion or if a particular religion takes one side of a historical debate," Selna said in his written decision.

"The decision also reflects that there are boundaries. … The ruling today protects Farnan, but also protects teachers like Corbett in carrying out their teaching duties."


A pdf copy of the judge's ruling can be found at this link:
http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/05/01/Student%20lawsuit%20-%20final%20ruling.pdf
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 11:09 am
@wandeljw,
Maybe the judge is a troll wande.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 12:41 pm
@wandeljw,
That is out of line for a teacher to proselytize anti-religion diatribes in a classroom. I doubt the judge will award court costs or fine the teacher. He's still teaching so obviously the school board didn't believe it was a serious infraction.

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 01:18 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
High school teacher found guilty of insulting Christians
(By SCOTT MARTINDALE, The Orange County Register, May 1, 2009)

James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, was found guilty of referring to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.

"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."


So, a student could claim that they believed the Earth and all life was created six thousand years ago by Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse in a fit of animated sexual depravity, and as long as they claimed it was their religion, no teacher could challenge them in any way. Wouldn't that be fun Smile

Or do established religions get special dispensation?

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 01:50 pm
@rosborne979,
I'm just wondering how many of those students were awaken from their brain-washing by their parents on religion? The words "religious superstitious nonsense" is a fact that cannot be denied.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 May, 2009 01:56 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
High school teacher found guilty of insulting Christians
(By SCOTT MARTINDALE, The Orange County Register, May 1, 2009)

James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, was found guilty of referring to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.

"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."


So, a student could claim that they believed the Earth and all life was created six thousand years ago by Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse in a fit of animated sexual depravity, and as long as they claimed it was their religion, no teacher could challenge them in any way. Wouldn't that be fun Smile

Or do established religions get special dispensation?

I think the point is that the specific word was designed to insult. He could have more accurately and with greater sensitivity to the class stated that Christianity has the EXACT (not more, not less) scientific support that a theory of all life was created six thousand years ago by Daffy Duck and Mickey Mouse in a fit of animated sexual depravity. In this case, he would be able to associate the absurd with the accepted and allow the class to make it's own connections.

Why is a 20 year old teaching in a school?

T
K
O
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 07/17/2025 at 01:21:47