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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 12:49 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
How can I protest against a meaningless farrago of nonsensical self-congratulation



Im sure you can try harder than you did.
If mines a farrago, yours is a ratoon off the old bullshit bush
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 12:53 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Over 13,000 posts and no resolution yet?


Im not sure that, when wandel started this, he was seeking any resolutions. Thiw has been mostly a thread about where the continuing challenges to high school science still lie (at least in the biological sciences).

PS, it aint a dead issue or one that is resolvable (in the US at least).
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 12:55 pm
@spendius,
Come to think of it. I actually had the first response and I stick with it.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:00 pm
For those of us whove forgotten since 600 or so pages have flown by, Neo said
Quote:
one might be tempted to opine that evolutionary theory should be quite able to defend itself in a science classroom
.
Well then you could have just walked away feeling all full of yourself eh? SO whathas happened in themeantime?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:11 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
For those of us whove forgotten since 600 or so pages have flown by, Neo said
Quote:
one might be tempted to opine that evolutionary theory should be quite able to defend itself in a science classroom
.
Well then you could have just walked away feeling all full of yourself eh? SO whathas happened in themeantime?
I am quite impressed with the level of research done by those who post on this thread. But, I'm not sympathetic to any arguments other than my above assertion. True scientific method includes replication. In the end, we are all making decisions based on circumstantial and anecdotal evidence.

I remain an interested viewer. Carry on
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:18 pm
@neologist,
However, you are missing the point. Inmost schools the issue of evolution in the UW is still handled with kid gloves so as not to offend the small but vocal bunch of Evangelicals and Fundamentalist Christians , Muslims, and Jews.

The science can handle itself quite well but our need is to make sure that there is a flat p[laying field in which the real science is presented.
We have periodic cases in our state and Fed DSistrict courts but, surrounding the decisions we never know that some public schools are still failing to present the science in science class.
Unfortunately, the NCSE has smeared its own clout by becoming way to politicized and thus getting some pushback in a few states. I expect another batch of "tests" to be forwarded in the next two years.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:31 pm
@farmerman,
Well, you already know my religious view. But I have no issue with my children (now grandchildren) being taught evolution in school. They have had no problem participating in class while maintaining an underlying faith in creation. I am no William Jennings Bryan, as you can see.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:34 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Inmost schools the issue of evolution in the UW is still handled with kid gloves so as not to offend the small but vocal bunch of Evangelicals and Fundamentalist Christians , Muslims, and Jews.


Really? In most schools? (I'm assuming you meant US rather UW)

How have you reached that conclusion?

I'm certain that there are plenty of schools which, unfortunately, do as you've asserted, but I have an incredibly hard time believing they are in the majority.

Please educate me.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 01:52 pm
@farmerman,
I know what real science is and I don't need Popper to define it for me.

It is hardly a "ratoon off the old bullshit bush" say that your post was meaningless because it is an obvious fact.

The problem with Darwin, and his spawn, is that it is forever teetering on the edge of triviality. I have often pointed out that that is its main attraction to the mediocre. It never seems enter your heads that if you can understand it it has to be simple and obvious. So in order to look intelligent and original you need to maintain it is not simple and obvious which is best done with big words in large piles.

Even the technological applications are simple despite how elaborate they might become with enough funding. We must not allow ourselves to overlook the funding.

The adaptations in the physical characteristics of show dogs are quite simple except insofar as the motives of those who cause them to be engineered are taken into account. The subject gets a bit sticky if they are though.

I remember someone saying, a long time ago, that by the time we humans come into our majority the only animals left on earth will be those we eat or are cuddly. Or declared cuddly. Like whales have been. Trips to see the whales blowing off --only $20. (Excluding refreshments).

North America was almost denuded of animals which might be used in fashionable ladies wear. What use their naturally evolved defense weapons then? It was only when the law of diminishing returns took effect that we decided to take pity on them and deem them to be endangered species which should only be used for the foundation of charities. (How ol' Charlie would have laughed!)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 03:11 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Come to think of it. I actually had the first response and I stick with it.


Here it is--

Quote:
But one might be tempted to opine that evolutionary theory should be quite able to defend itself in a science classroom.


It can as long as you put on Ignore certain aspects of science.

As you can see fm covers up that little blindfold with the phrase " offend the small but vocal bunch of Evangelicals and Fundamentalist Christians , Muslims, and Jews." He puts the onus on those groups as if I belong to one of them as a method of diverting your worships' attention from the scientific position I take. It saves him answering my arguments. It assumes you are stupid as well it might occur to a man of fm's intelligence to assume.

I can smell money and cachet in every post fm writes. His crew are persuaded that teaching evolution in schools is a sound business proposition. I am not.

I have suggested that they persuade me but they duck it every time. Off they go about some teacher in some tiny corner of the USA burning a cross on a kid's arm which we haven't yet seen a picture of. That's a measure of their scientific sensibilities.

The argument on here has nothing to do with offensive (an assertion which makes the case quite logically), and small but vocal bunches of Evangelicals and Fundamentalist Christians , Muslims, and Jews. If these fundie evos want to argue with that lot what do they come on here for? They are being talked about behind their backs.

Fundie evos are pretty vocal. Although they seem to have gone a bit quiet recently.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 03:27 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Unfortunately, the NCSE has smeared its own clout by becoming way to politicized


It always was politicized fm, as I have often pointed out. Some way or other.

What do you want "tests" for. In its own terms evolution is irrefutable. Any anomalies are easily dismissed as "sports". It is a consistent body of circular logic which is content to ignore human social consequences. In the argument I mean. Its supporters, the Lords of Creation, might very well have those consequences in mind but it prefers to be coy about them. They won't want the ragged army of dupes to consider them who only want the freedom to let it all hang out in the rumpy-pumpy department.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 03:29 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
How have you reached that conclusion?


It's no good asking fm a question like that. His conclusions are necessary to his argument. He starts there and works backwards.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 05:27 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
problem with Darwin, and his spawn, is that it is forever teetering on the edge of triviality.

SEE THE GENIUS OF IT? iF BLOKES LIKE YOU AND YOUR BARSTOOL BUFOONS CAN MILDLY UNDERSTAND IT BETWEEN BELCHES, THEN THE WORK IS DONE.

Hell, youv said before that once you were a chemist and yet you didnt understand what Avogadro's number is even used for in todays labs.

You may saywhatever you want about how brilliant you are, but I think that, by your verbal emissions we can see you much more clearly of what you are capable.
Quote:
Trips to see the whales blowing off --only $20. (Excluding refreshments).
Im sure that you think that youre making a point but youre still just wanking.






Quote:
Where were their evolved defense weapons then? It was only when the law of diminishing returns took effect that we decided to take pity on them and deem them to be endangered species which should only be used for the foundation of charities. (How ol' Charlie would have laughed!)


Not at all since he tried to interlace the concepts of artificial and natural selection and covered it quite well .I thought you said you were familiar with the contents.
Anyway, extinction also plays a vital role in evolution , and youve merely posed a mechanism for same.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 05:32 pm
@neologist,
Are you claiming the Bible is totally factual?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 05:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I can only speak for Pa schools, and yes, evolution is still a dicey subject in MOST public schools. I still serve on several ed committees for Pa science standards
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 05:34 pm
@farmerman,
Mildly Understood?
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 06:05 pm
@izzythepush,
understanding of science by spendi (IMHO) is inversely proportional to the number of brews hes quaffed
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 06:12 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Are you claiming the Bible is totally factual?
I believe it is inspired by God. That was my purpose for starting this thread: http://able2know.org/topic/211046-1
I was hoping to bait some believers, but no luck.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 06:51 pm
@farmerman,
And you can multiply that by ten! LOL
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 Apr, 2013 06:53 pm
@neologist,
If, as you say, the bible was "inspired by god," why are there so many confusing and conflicting messages in it?
 

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