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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2012 11:34 am
@farmerman,
I get that, I'm just cross-eyed over the "natural world" clause as if we can speak to anything but, or that anything can be thought to be beyond it. I don't suffer fools gladly...

A
R
T
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Apr, 2012 05:18 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I don't suffer fools gladly


That explains why you are in a permanent rage.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 01:46 pm
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
Committee kills repeal of Louisiana Science Act
(Mike Hasten, Shreveport Times, April 20, 2012)

BATON ROUGE — State senators have rejected an effort to take off the books a law that allows teachers to introduce alternatives to evolution in science classrooms.

With a 2-1 vote, the Senate Education Committee rejected SB374 by Sen. Karen Peterson, D-New Orleans, which sought to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act adopted in 2008.

Proponents of the repeal say the law "opens the door" for the teaching of creationism in science classrooms, but opponents say federal and state laws forbid that.

Scientists around the world criticize the law, and 78 Nobel laureate scientists in physics, chemistry, physiology and medicine wrote letters supporting the repeal efforts of Zach Kopplin, a Baton Rouge native who is now a freshman at Rice University. He called the law "wrong-headed and unconstitutional."

Southern University Law School Professor Michelle Ghetti, who opposed SB374, said no one has ever challenged the act, so until it is declared otherwise, it is constitutional.

Kopplin says the law harms the state's image and allows the teaching of "pseudo-science."

"There is no place for creationism in a public school classroom," he said.

Proponents say that the law allows "critical thinking, but you don't need a law to allow critical thinking. Critical thinking is the basis of science."

The law, criticized nationally by scientists as a way to allow the teaching of creationism in classrooms, "requires the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, upon request of a local school board, to allow and assist teachers, principals, and other school administrators to create and foster an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that promotes critical thinking skills, logical analysis, and open and objective discussion of scientific theories being studied including evolution, the origins of life, global warming, and human cloning."

The Senate Education Committee 2-1 vote against the measure had Sens. Mike Walsworth, R-West Monroe, and Bodi White, R-Central, opposing. Sen. Dan Claitor, R-Baton Rouge, voted for repealing this law, along with a 1981 law that was declared unconstitutional because it directly called for the teaching of creationism. He said he was surprised to find the earlier law still in law books.

Three committee members — Sens. Eric LaFleur, D-Ville Platte, Elbert Guillory, D-Opelousas, and Jack Donahue, R-Mandeville — were absent and Committee Chairman Sen. Conrad Appel, R-Metairie, did not vote.

Kopplin, current students at Baton Rouge High Magnet School Nathan Babb and Martin Brown, retired nationally certified science teacher Darlene Reaves and LSU Department of Science Dean Kevin Carman spoke in favor of the bill.

Carman said two top scientists who rejected his offer to come to LSU cited the Louisiana Science Act as the reason they wouldn't come to LSU. Also, "I just lost an evolution biologist" who said he was leaving the state because his children are nearing school age and he didn't want them to attend a school where they might not be taught true science.

"Teaching pseudo-science drives scientists away," Carman said.

Reaves, answering Walworth's statement that "evolution is only a theory," said "gravity is only a theory. It's a scientific theory, based on research."

Russell Armstrong, of the governor's office, and Louisiana Family Forum Action Director Gene Mills opposed the bill.

Mills said that no complaints about teachers or lawsuits challenging the law have been filed, so the bill was "a political solution in search of a problem."

Armstrong encouraged senators to reject the bill because the law "is about academic freedom." He said repealing it "would show no improvement for children" and would "limit educators' ability to teach" alternative ideas.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 02:55 pm
@wandeljw,
Another defeat, and at the hands of duly elected representatives in numbers rather than a wildcat judge on the look out for a series of gigs.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 05:01 pm
@spendius,
Shows you how little you understand. The US law that bans teaching Creationism has not really been addressed here. The "La SCience Act" is merey a skeert ittle bunch of IDiots and Creationists who still want to show their constituency that theres some hope for that "ole Time Reigion" in ouisiana.

Now, what the douche bag legislature has done is to put the real science yeachers and those who arent anti-science on notice that, as soon as one teacher can be shown to have been drifting over the line from "Critical thinking" and into suggesting that ahat they are really doing is proselytizing for "ole time religion" Then another case will be born and carried into the Federal district courts and even the Supreme Court , if the Fed District wihes to play Denisovan.

Its all just great theater where the ticket prices are in the millions of taxpayer dollars.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 05:22 pm
@farmerman,
Better than working eh? what with useful work being so distasteful.

The psychoanalytical movement started out scientifically and then fractured and fragmented when it ran into social consequences.

Your obvious fear of the social consequences of what you promote tells intelligent people all they need to know about the gigantic cop-out you are engaged in. As if abstract ideas about rationality can be applied the cultures made up of millions of irrational human beings.

You're not a serious player fm. You have a toy fort on your hands.

How you cope personally with "douche bag" legislatures I don't know but resignation is on the end of it no matter how much you resist.

And you are missing out on a very interesting debate by your a priorism.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 05:31 pm
@spendius,
Idont miss any quality debate with you since you are as predictable as the lunar cycle.



spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2012 03:10 am
@farmerman,
Of course you don't. "Quality" is a priorism as well. You're riddled with the fault.

Are you suggesting that it would be better if the moon was whizzing all over the sky in a random fashion like anti-IDers are when they have no answer to the question of what happens when we are all cured of our superstitious and evil nonsense and there are 310 million oracles?

I understood that predictability is the essence of scientific laws.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2012 04:25 am
Quote:
Three committee members — Sens. Eric LaFleur, D-Ville Platte, Elbert Guillory, D-Opelousas, and Jack Donahue, R-Mandeville — were absent and Committee Chairman Sen. Conrad Appel, R-Metairie, did not vote.

The committee, being of 7 members had a bare quorum in which even the Charirman refused to vote. So this "Slam dunk for legislation" was accomplished by 28% OD THE ELIGIBLE ELECTORRATE.
They seem to be ignorant and contented there in the swamps.

Its sad for higher ed institutions like Tulane and LSU to be ocated in the state that apparently doesnt give a squat about science education and merely likes to pump out laws based on Fundamentalist christian doggerel "science".

Too bad cause we know its ultimately going to head to a court case in which , once again, asin 1987, Louisiana will be shown the benefits and responsibilities defined within our Constitution and our case law.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2012 07:34 am
@farmerman,
They will have thought of that fm. They are obviously not very worried about being shown the benefits and responsibilities defined within our Constitution and our case law.

Perhaps they think others need to be shown the same things.

Your profoundly bigoted position is based upon the a priori assumption that your interpretations are always correct. As befits any common or garden bigot. And your method is to allege "asshole" and refusing to be scrutinised yourself in the same way. You want to do unto others what you do not want done unto yourself.

When I watched the Shuttle being flown into Washington it struck me that American science needs no help from you silly sods.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Apr, 2012 07:47 am
@spendius,
Articles of Confederation. The convention was not limited to commerce; rather, it was intended to “render the federal constitution adequate to the exigencies of government and the preservation of the Union."

Is atheism adequate to the exigencies of government and the preservation of the Union?

Are people in Judge Jones' court allowed to "swear by Almighty God" before they give evidence?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Apr, 2012 10:58 am
@spendius,
The view to last post ratio on this thread has been creeping up for a long time and in the last few days has passed the 20 to 1 mark.

Something like 1,000 views have been added without a single new post.

Which is unusual for a thread like this.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 May, 2012 01:32 pm
@spendius,
From the speech of Pericles in honour of the fallen--

Quote:
: the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequence have been properly debated.


Quote:
We give our obedience to those whom we put in a positions of authority, and we obey the laws themselves, especially those which are for the protection of the oppressed, and those unwritten laws which it is an acknowledged shame to break .
(My italics).

Shades of the "controversial issues" the senator from Texas mentioned.

Anti-IDers know very well what the unwritten laws are because they jump for Ignore if they are even alluded to. Or place their head in a place where the light does not reach in order to show how enlightened they are.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 09:22 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Evolution debate on tap
(Jacob Mayer, Amarillo Globe-News, May 13, 2012)

Next year, a debate as old as Darwin could be revived in Texas.

The State Board of Education is scheduled to review science materials in summer 2013, when Amarillo attorney Marty Rowley, Amarillo Independent School District board president Anette Carlisle and a handful of other contenders for seats on the panel hope to stir anew efforts to kindle classroom discussion of alternatives to evolution.

All that’s certain is sentiments would be strong.

“It hits people in a very emotional place,” said Patte Barth, director of the Center for Public Education, an initiative of the National School Boards Association.

Texas, Kansas and Tennessee, site of the famed Scopes trial 87 years ago, debate the topic the most, Barth said.

Here, politics play a significant role because the State Board of Education is an elected, rather than appointed, body.

Science standards regarding evolution have been debated in board races throughout the state in the run-up to the May 29 primary. All 15 board seats are up for re-election because of redistricting. Early voting starts Monday.

In District 15, Rowley is running against Carlisle, and science is a hot topic.

Carlisle's stance is decisions about science curriculum should be based on the consensus of experts and educators in the field.

“I would defer to the experts and say, ‘Are we doing what’s right?’” she said. “I think that’s what they went with when they passed the science curriculum standards at the state board the last time. They relied on expert input.”

Barth said several national science organizations have advocated for standards that teach evolution exclusively.

Rowley said he disagrees with those viewpoints.

“Evolutionists would say that we progressed to this point through a series of unplanned, random circumstances and random events,” he said. “I don’t believe that tells the whole story. I think there is more to our creation that indicates an intelligent being that has played a significant role.”

Scientists already look at the strengths and weaknesses in anything they study, Carlisle said.

Including religious beliefs in science curricula would be troublesome because not every student holds the same beliefs, she said.

“We have multiple belief systems in our student population, and we have to be respectful of that and not try to force any one person’s belief system on other students,” she said.

Evolution’s flaws as well as alternative theories should be part of the discussion, Rowley said.

“If we’re doing that, and we’re also presenting competing theories in whatever the subject matter might be, what I believe we’re doing is developing stronger graduates,” he said.

As the evolution debate simmers, increasing attention is being paid to students’ performance in science in U.S. classrooms.

Texas ranked 29th in eighth-grade National Assessment of Educational Progress science test scores released last week.

Students took the tests during the first year teachers used new state science standards, according to the Texas Education Agency. The board revised the standards in 2009, but they didn’t take effect until fall 2010, according to the agency.

The current state science curriculum says, “In all fields of science, analyze, evaluate and critique scientific explanations by using empirical evidence, logical reasoning and experimental and observational testing, including examining all sides of the scientific evidence of those scientific explanations so as to encourage critical thinking by the student.”

That sentence replaced language in 2009 that addressed the strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories, including evolution, according to Texas Education Agency.

The board approved supplemental science materials in July that maintained the status quo.

Barth said the debate in several parts of the country centers around what people consider science and what they consider religion.

Kathleen Porter-Magee, senior director of the High Quality Standards Project at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, said a study of science standards in all 50 states showed many tried to avoid the evolution issue altogether, either by not using the term or glossing over the topic.

“All of those are definitely ways that states try to dance around the issue and not push any hot buttons,” she said.

Porter-Magee said she understands some religious groups want intelligent design worked into the curriculum.

However, she said, states should still directly address evolution and keep it separate from other theories.

“Intelligent design is not scientific content, whereas evolution is scientific content,” Porter- Magee said.

Still, some people think teachers should teach other theories alongside evolution so students understand all of the competing viewpoints, said Mark Biedebach, professor emeritus in the California State University-Long Beach department of biological sciences.

“It should be taught in a manner that does not favor any particular philosophical perspective and does not threaten the philosophical perspective of any students in the class,” he said.

“That’s simply not the case the way it is presented now.”

Biedebach said textbooks currently are heavily biased toward evolution.

Porter-Magee said implementation of new Common Core State Standards could cause the evolution and intelligent design issues to once again become a large national issue.

Forty-six states have agreed to use the Common Core standards, but Texas is not in that group.

The debate, Barth said, is bound to linger.

“It never really quite goes away,” Barth said.

Steven Schafersman, D-Midland, also is running for the District 15 seat. He will be uncontested in the primary election.


(emphasis added by me)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 01:14 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Including religious beliefs in science curricula would be troublesome because not every student holds the same beliefs, she said.


It would only be troublesome in the sense that an exploration of the processes in the human body by which people come to have religious beliefs leading to a sense of foolishness and sheepish grinning would lead to the disappearance of religious beliefs, leaving nothing to study in that particular field, and the scientific exploration would branch out into the realm of other beliefs which were conditioned in a similar fashion to those of religious beliefs and were often intimately connected to them. The expertise learned in such a progression would accelerate, as is the nature of scientific exploration, and would exhaust itself in exploring how the belief that people having religious beliefs is foolish got imprinted on the cerebellum when it so obviously a minority interest. It used to be an aberration.

Quote:
“In all fields of science, analyze, evaluate and critique scientific explanations by using empirical evidence, logical reasoning and experimental and observational testing, including examining all sides of the scientific evidence of those scientific explanations so as to encourage critical thinking by the student.”


I presume that was rote learned by somebody who hasn't the slightest idea what those words mean either collectively, individually or in any other order.

Once the obvious conclusion had been reached that the ones who believed that religious beliefs were foolish are just as foolish as the ones who held the religious beliefs, someone would start a campaign to only have the sort science taught in science classes that was tolerable to the adolescent mind. Particularly the small but highly significant fraction of the adolescent mind pool with an IQ of 140 plus.

The belief, widely accepted by anti-IDers I should think, that it was worth going 50,000 smackeroonies into the red to go to college has not turned out all that reliable. A college education means nothing to an entrepreneur now that sex has risen to the top of the agenda due to the rest of life's necessities being in surplus.

Their fondest belief is that the kids are all stupid and an easy living can be made off their Moms and Pops by winding them up that their offspring's majors and degrees showed that their genetic material was not as ordinary as it had been generally held to be.

I don't think that any of the multi-belief systems could object to the sort of science of religious beliefs outlined in brief above. And I don't think there's a science teacher in grade schools who ever dare come close to the hallucinatory outburst I quoted above. Mr Rowley admits to a belief.

Anyway--what's trouble to science. Trouble = funds. Nothing troubles our resident scientific methodologists it is implicitly claimed. There's no panic poking at the Ignore button for scientific methodologists.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:03 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
“It should be taught in a manner that does not favor any particular philosophical perspective and does not threaten the philosophical perspective of any students in the class,” he said


I suppose that the concepts of "Correct by virtue of evidence"; and "fantasy by virtue of Biblical fairy tales" have no bearing in science nymore. In Texas they should go the entire route and teach about anything that wont corrupt the self esteems of their larvae.

Weve got enough yahoos on A2K veting theior opinions about the validity of ID based upon nothing but fairy tales.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:06 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Including religious beliefs in science curricula would be troublesome because not every student holds the same beliefs, she said.


and not every student is able to absorb scientific FACT.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 May, 2012 05:07 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
and not every student is able to absorb scientific FACT.


That applies to you lot fm. You have got to the point where you define scientific facts as those you think you have absorbed.

Your superior remark has no real meaning. It is purely impressionistic. It can only be intended for an audience you think is below your level of expertise. You're a science snob. The expression "not every student" is laughable. And "scientific FACT" is clearly ridiculous.

You seem unable to absorb my last post and it isn't even mildly difficult. There is a vast scientific field relating to how we come to think as we do. You have chosen not to know about it.

Quote:
and not every student is able to absorb scientific FACT.


Which is, as we have come to expect, another in a very long line of reverse invidious comparisons whereby the witness is supposed to be made aware that you do absorb scientific FACT and you can't even understand one single page of Spengler and that 100 years old.

Not only can you not understand it you refuse to even try because you are scared that it might necessitate you revising your very banal opinions.

Why do you not consider the totality of life forms as one undifferentiated and chaotic mass left over from a struggle for existence at every stage. The theory you amateurishly propound seems to have no other conclusion. Nothing but transition types. An organic glop where the difference between a female mantis and the maid in the Sofitel case is only psychologically determined.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 May, 2012 08:15 am
@spendius,
The above IDioramus makes my case quite well.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 May, 2012 09:22 am
@farmerman,
I know. It the same case all the time. That you don't know what you are talking about. And don't wish to know.

Your IDioramus assertion is void of value. Except to the rest of us who are not in the same boat. It reminds us, not that I need reminding, that you think that a blurt from you is a valid argument.

It isn't.
 

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