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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:19 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Americans United for Separation of Church and State is calling on Governor Bill Haslam to veto House Bill 368, according to a post on the organization's Wall of Separation blog (April 5, 2012). If enacted, HB 368 would encourage teachers to present the "scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses" of topics that arouse "debate and disputation" such as "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning." The bill passed the Tennessee legislature and is now on the governor's desk.

In the letter, posted on the Nashville Tennessean's politics blog (April 5, 2012), Americans United's Amanda Rolat warned, "HB 368 invites discussion of religion, veiled by the term 'controversial issues,' into the science classroom," arguing, "The strategy in this bill is a common attempt to skirt the U.S. Constitution's prohibition on the teaching of creationism in public schools. ... Thus, when there is a challenge, either to the law itself or to its implementation, it will likely be struck down after costly litigation."

Rolat added, "HB 368 does not even purport to improve science education — it practically acknowledges that its purpose is to discredit scientific theories. HB 368, in fact, significantly changes Tennessee's science curriculum — it calls into question the veracity of the entire discipline. Arguments that students should learn about 'scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories' are unwarranted based on the overwhelming evidence that supports such theories ... and will only harm students' education."


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:39 pm
@farmerman,
Heres the House Bill 368 itself. The way I read it, a teacher who wishes to explore evolution even deeper will have no problems from the school board. IF, however, the school board shows its agenda driven side, then Im sure there will be cases of this law as the core of a defense by the state.


Quote:

By Dunn
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49,
Chapter 6, Part 10, relative to teaching scientific
subjects in ELEMENTARY schools.
.


BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 49, Chapter 6, Part 10, is amended by
adding the following as a new, appropriately designated section:
(a) The general assembly finds that:
(1) An important purpose of science education is to inform students about
scientific evidence and to help students develop critical thinking skills necessary
to becoming intelligent, productive, and scientifically informed citizens;
(2) The teaching of some scientific subjects, including, but not limited to,
biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human
cloning, can cause controversy; and
(3) Some teachers may be unsure of the expectations concerning how
they should present information on such subjects.
(b) The state board of education, public elementary and secondary school
governing authorities, directors of schools, school system administrators, and public
elementary and secondary school principals and administrators shall endeavor to create
an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that encourages
students to explore scientific questions, learn about scientific evidence, develop critical
thinking skills, and respond appropriately and respectfully to differences of opinion about
controversial issues.
(c) The state board of education, public elementary and secondary school
governing authorities, directors of schools, school system administrators, and public


When you read it, the bill seems rather innocuous sinceteachers should be doing this already so the kids have the benefit of how all the conclusions were reached. PS, I just noted that this Bill HB 368 is targeted ONY for the elementary (K-6_ grades). Hmmmmm, lets indoctrinate them with Christian moogah boogah early

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 02:55 pm
@farmerman,


ADDITIONAL SECTION OF HB 268
Quote:
elementary and secondary school principals and administrators shall endeavor to assist
teachers to find effective ways to present the science curriculum as it addresses
scientific controversies. Toward this end, teachers shall be permitted to help students
understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths
and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being
taught.
(d) Neither the state board of education, nor any public elementary or secondary
school governing authority, director of schools, school system administrator, or any
public elementary or secondary school principal or administrator shall prohibit any
teacher in a public school system of this state from helping students understand,
analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific
weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught.
(e) This section only protects the teaching of scientific information, and shall not
be construed to promote any religious or non-religious doctrine, promote discrimination
for or against a particular set of religious beliefs or non-beliefs, or promote discrimination
for or against religion or non-religion.
SECTION 2. By no later than the start of the 2011-2012 school term, the department of
education shall notify all directors of schools of the provisions of this act. Each director shall
notify all employees within the director's school system of the provisions of this act.
SECTION 3. This act shall take effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 03:24 pm
@farmerman,
Yeah--and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Institute of Biological Sciences, the National Earth Science Teachers Association, the Tennessee Science Teachers Association and the Americans United for Separation of Church and State are all non-elected, self-appointed and self-perpetuating busybodies answerable to nobody and those bringing the legislation forward are elected by the voters and answerable to them.

Who do you want running the country fm?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 04:34 pm
re Spendius We elected George Bush. Twice. I sure as hell didn't want him running the country. State legislatures all too often are bastions of idiocy and ignorance and pandering. I don't want a state legislator teaching kids. I'd far rather have a teacher, who actually knows something about the subject, doing the teaching. I want someone who knows something setting the curriculum. Not some state legislator who has nothing but great hair and a firm handshake (and an open hand and a capacious empty pocket) and an empty head to boot setting it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:08 pm
@MontereyJack,
Total bollocks Jack. Get thee to North Korea.

You malign the memory of everybody who died or suffered to protect democratic freedom.

And you insult the voters.

Which senior executives of any of those self-creating organisations I listed have lost their position and reputation because a woman alleged they had shoved her head to proximity with their crotch or any of the other allegations which have cost politicians their reputation.

What do we know about them except for what they say in their PR handouts, never peer reviewed, and which pour out of a hole in a wall which is not transparent?

They are like bushwhackers. Snipers. Even their claim to be "non-profit" is bullshit.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Apr, 2012 05:56 pm
@MontereyJack,
The interesting thing is that, because of the "republic" and the electoral college, the people did not really get their choice for president in "Bush v Gore". I still think that most Europeans have no idea how the system really works and how thw founding fathers really did NOT trust popular votes deciding on our leadership.

We often have our newspapers providing great entertainment by op eds and editorial pages presenting us with "Who is the dumbest politician in the State (fed) Legislature (Congress)"
ANd you are so right, leavng ANY substantive decisions re school curriculum to our politicians is madness. The only thing politicians (especially at the state levels) do, is to study which way the political wind is blowing so they can be reelected.
We have "professional" politicians, which, in ENgland may work because they are a small compact little community. We are a sprawling multinational clutch of disparate species that we really need to have term limits imposed on many of these clowns so they dont get so full of themselves that they start legislating what science "Spin" shall occur in the schools.

In PA, until just last year, the chairman of the Legislatures "House Committee on SCience and environment" was a LAncaster County Dairy FArmer . This guy merely hung around as a ward heeler over the years, and initially was elected as a township Supervisor , where his major duty was to oversee how much salt the township bought each winter for ice melting. He didnt even finish High SChool but yet at the distal terminus of his long political career, because he was a member of the majority party in the House, he wound up giving advice and chairing hearings on legslation regarding what subjects would be taught in science classes. He was a buffoon who was elected over and over by his constituency which was mostly AMISH.
He only left the Legislature because he was stone deaf and was going simple in the head (sorta like the Pope). Anyone who thinks that legislatures have any value in "leadership" doesnt understand US politics at all. However, having depressed the **** out of myself, I can say that I have all the faith necessary to expect that the TEnnessee teachers will overcome the lwegislative bullshit and push back by teaching the real "Strengths and weaknesses" of scientific Theories.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 02:54 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I still think that most Europeans have no idea how the system really works and how thw founding fathers really did NOT trust popular votes deciding on our leadership. (emphasis added)


This is canard--a popular one, but a canard nonetheless. The Electoral College is one of the two major compromises (the Senate being the other) which was crafted to convince the small population states that they would not be submerged by the heavily populated states--in those times, Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. I have no clue where this bullshit comes from, but that "did not trust popular vote" meme sounds like some whacko libertarian crap such as one could expect from David.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 03:09 am
@Setanta,
discussions of the consideration of the "rule of he majority or the Mob" was a statement out of the Federatist papers. Im sure itwas one of Jay's but I will go search. ANyway, canards went out with the WRight Brothers)
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 03:14 am
@farmerman,
Sure, and that was the point, to reassure the small population states that they would not be submerged by the votes of the large population states. There is no good to extrapolate from that that the framers did not trust the voters.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 03:40 am
Considering that most of the states had far stricter requirements for voting than we do today (like owning fairly large tracts of land, not just having money), considering that women couldn't vote, and slaves weren't even real people, yeah, I'd say they didn't trust the general run of us very much. You could vote, but only if you were their kind of folks. Not so much libertarian as more democratic than they were. And considering that we had no actual vote in the choosing of the president, or the choosing of the electors, it seems fair to say they didn't trust us much.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 03:55 am
@Setanta,
Calling it a "canard" does diservice to the vast differences of opinions that the Federalists and anti-Federalists possessed. The terms of "Excessive Democracy" are seen in Federalist essays as well as the responses by "Brutus" and the "Federal Farmer". There were several plans that, like slavery,democracy, and govt structure had issues that were strongly held by those favoring the Virginia plan, the NEw Jersey plan or the ultimate Connecticut plan. Most all agreed and feared that democracy would degenerate into anarchy and the redistribution of property and the dispossession of property owners.
"Tyranny of Democracy" is their choice of words, not mine. Im just shortening the punch line.

We can argue the nuances of the spirit of the time and the resultant Constitution. My point was taken up to respond to several of the Brits here who feel that "Govt shall answer to all our needs, including educational goals--and that if we voted for it, its settled".

Quite the contrary
Once the Gov of TEnnessee signs that bill(if he does , in some huge loss of common sense, sign that bill), then the fun will just be beginning, when the other branches of govt9primarily the judiciary) are called into action to demonstrate that our constitution, no matter how flawed , has, as its dense central core, the strong belief in personal liberty, not equality.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 04:04 am
@farmerman,
Talking about anti-democratic opinions of the framers does not constitute evidence that they didn't trust the voters. The constitution sought to protect the republic from both majority and minority tyranny. The Electoral College was one of those efforts.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 04:12 am
@Setanta,
"tyranny of Democracy" seems ike a pretty good start in my forensic examination of a concept
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 04:26 am
@farmerman,
Sure, if you want to rush all over the historical landscape without a clue. The only plan on the table at the beginning of the convention was the Virginia plan. That plan called for a legislature of a single house based on proportional representation. Many delegates from small states were instructed not to vote for such a legislature, and some even had instructions to withdraw from the convention if such a plan were mooted. So, the delegates began by resolving themselves into a committee of the whole which allowed them to discuss the matter without triggering the instructions of the small state delegates. That would also allow them time to correspond with their state legislatures to ask for new instructions.

The first great compromises of the convention were the Senate and the Electoral College, designed to reassure the small states. There is no good reason to assume that the Electoral College was created because the framers didn't trust the voters--that's not at all why it was created. The Federalist papers were, above all, propaganda intended to secure ratification. Whether or not the authors were in fact anti-democratic we cannot know, precisely because it was propaganda. But whether or not they were has no bearing on why the Electoral College was created. This is roughly the equivalent of looking at your geological samples and saying "rocks is rocks." There are valid distinctions to be made here based on the timeline and the intent.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 04:48 am
@Setanta,
lets agree to disagree uness you are fully going to disclose that the "Va plan" was not the only one available , nor was it the one ultimately chosen.
The protection of small states had constituted within it the beief that the Separate interests of New ENgland Merchants or Virginia Farmers would override the votes of others.(hence the NEw Jersey plan).

Anyway, "rocks IS rocks" we always attempt to find the common patterns that connect them all by genesis. BAd analogy.

I gotta go to work, Ill catch you later with some some a my own screaming and disputation.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Apr, 2012 05:10 am
@farmerman,
Of course the Virginia plan was not the one ultimately chosen. I haven't said it was--nor did i say it was the only one. It was, however, the only plan presented at the beginning of the convention, which is what i did say. Spare me the straw men.

It's a wonderful analogy in this case, because you're making no distinctions based on timeline or intent--just as "rocks is rocks" makes no distinction between, say, igneous and sedimentary.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Apr, 2012 04:36 am
@Setanta,
ok so we agree on one thing. The "Tyranny of Democracy" was a fear of the giant landholders and was to be sorted out by the set up of the elctoral system. However , wasnt it the Connecticut plan that actually gave each and every state, two and only two senators, and by placing fiscal responsibilities to the House, satisfied more than the minimum required for passing. (even though Va was considered a larger state than was say New Jersey).
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Apr, 2012 05:06 am
@farmerman,
No, we don't agree on that. The Electoral system was created to reassure states with small populations that they would not be overwhelmed by the votes of states with large populations. It was not a case of the framers not trusting the voters so much as it was the voters of New York and New Jersey, for example, not trusting the voters of Virginia and Massachusetts.

The Virginia plan called for a legislature of a single house with proportional representation. This was a direct response to the great legislative weakness of the Continental Congress in which each state had a single vote regardless of population. Virginia was not just larger in population than New Jersey, it had a larger population than any other state--in most cases, larger than any two or three other states. Between them, Virginia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania had more than half of the nation's population.

So the Virginia plan not only sought to address the weakness of the Continental Congress, it also was a naked power grab. The Connecticut compromise created the bicameral legislature, giving an equal representation in the Senate, and vesting the Senate with the nation's sovereign powers (the approval of the appointment of executive officers and the approval of treaties); while giving proportional representation in the House, and vesting the House with financial power--on the not unreasonable argument that as the states with the largest population would provide the most revenue (no income tax, and none foreseen, making the excise the largest source of continuing revenue--land sales were the largest source of revenue, but a finite source).

The Electoral College was a response to the fears and suspicions of the states. The small states feared popular vote because they rightly expected that in a nation spread out over such distances (about four or five million people strung out along a coastline stretching more than a thousand miles), states would end up voting for a favorite son, which meant that for the foreseeable future, Virginia would elect all the presidents, or a cabal would be formed by Virginia, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts to choose the president. Leaving it to the states to choose would, many feared, make the president subservient to the interests of the states, on the theory that he would promise them whatever it took to get elected.

The third option would be to let Congress choose the president, but that was just a wonderful blend of what were seen as the evils of the first two options. However, the EC combines both options while mitigating the evils thereof (or so it was reasoned), because more populace states would choose the most electors, but small states would still have a power greater than what was implied merely by population. The constitution also gives the right to the states to determine how electors will be chosen--so popular vote, mitigated by the direct relationship of the number of electors to the size of the congressional delegation, and the electoral system administered by the states was thought to provide the best blend of what everyone wanted while removing as much as possible the objections to each method.

There were no political parties then. Many people considered the very idea of political parties to be evil. It was also considered bad form to campaign for office (hence the belief that each state would choose a favorite son--they'd probably be ignorant of candidates from other states). Finally, there was the inherent mistrust of the states for the power of central government, making them reluctant to hand the power over to the Congress. That was essentially how the president had been chosen by the Continental Congress, and he was little more than a well-dressed gopher for the factions who chose him.

I happen to think the EC continues to be a good idea. Without it, California, New York, Texas and Florida would elect each president, with campaigning restricted to a handful of other populace states to add to the core support from those four states.

I don't for a moment deny the contempt for democracy of that age. However, it was a self-serving attitude. "We trust the voters of Pennsylvania, it's those sons of bitches in Maryland, Delaware and New Jersey who can't be trusted."
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Apr, 2012 05:15 am
@Setanta,
Hmmm, seems well reasoned. SO Ill back off on the initial statement . Now, Im sure spendi is even more confused.
 

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