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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 05:48 pm
@farmerman,
There is also the philosophical implications of phylogeny, possible systematic errors being derrivations of cognitive bias.

It will require semantics.

Lastly, how do the suggested variants satisfy macro selection pressure, yet are defined in the homeo sapien sapiens spectrum?

Did you not state:
Quote:
In all aspects they are not subspeces but are variants of H sapiens sapiens.


Is there an operatable definition for race?

How are these variants isolated with certainty, how large are the samples?

Unless it is a sample the entire species, it is open to falsification, just as melanocyte activity is not necessarily exclusive.

The error appears to be the 'cladistics' of phylogeny.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 05:54 pm
@spendius,
Whether it is as serious an impediment to political ambition as having the opposition in possession of a video of a candidate's enthusiastic and energetic participation in an orgy in a netball changing facility I am undecided about.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 05:58 pm
@Anomie,
Quote:
The error appears to be the 'cladistics' of phylogeny.


I'll take your word for that Anomie.

Tell your kid brother to reverse vehicles in a cautious manner.
0 Replies
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:00 pm
@spendius,
Acknowledge that my refutation to High Seas is relative arguementation.

It is not necessarily science and technology, it is the concept.

When I stated 'pioneers', I was referring to the 'paradign shifts' of philosophy and science, however this is conforming to normatives, meaning that my formal defences have been 'bypassed', hence my appeal to dualistic concepts (ie good/bad spectrum).

This entails my interpretation of "discovery", though I do personally believe atypical neurology does in fact satisfy my required conditions, if it did not would it be 'pioneers'?

Have contemporary normatives been refuted?

As for "ill", High Seas has yet to define this interpretation.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:01 pm
@Anomie,
Quote:
what is the age of the sherpa population, even if reverse engineer genetic data, how can you be certain that this variation is not prior to neolithic intervention
mutations or chromosomal rearrangments or "foldings" are fixed into a population and are clearly measurable according to the" three phase shifting balance rules" of Wright . Now that we know about what DNA does and how it is attached into a "barcode" sequence we can look at these snps or Str's and state that a genetic mutation that is fixed into a population is like a biological clock. Mutations and rearrangements, if they become fic=xed, it occurs in reguar frequencies of about 20K yeras. Assuming there are three SNPs in Sherpas portion of their genome, it would let us conclude that these are (if they are the latest ones on a "string" about a total pf 60K years since the expression became fixed. SO apparently people were ascending the heights between 20 and 60 K years. When did the mutation that corresponds with lung morphology become expressive?? I have no idea but its probably within that time period.

Quote:
You argue geneotype definitions such as nucleotide polymorphism, and defining hox genes, I am not certain how modality is constructed between genotype-phenotype.
nucleotides construct amino acids. AMino acids code for proteins in specific arenas of the species morphology. How it occurs is waay beyond a chat room. Id sugget you get a copy of Dan Fairbanks Book RELICS OF EDEN

Quote:
these are not contemporary preservations/acclimatizations of physiology, these are intrinsic functions.
actually they are both. An "acclimatization" is actually another word for adaptation. Adapt enough and evolution occurs which yields a morphological change that imbues an intrinsic function.



Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8

Organsisms appear to be regulated the by the natural environment, derriving form abiogensis, a consequent condition from the nomological properties of the universe.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:15 pm
@farmerman,
Can't lungs be developed like muscles fm. Is it evolution that gives a ploughman or a blast furnace shovel chucker bigger biceps than a typist and a lesser capacity for fingertip manipulations?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:18 pm
@Anomie,
Quote:
how do the suggested variants satisfy macro selection pressure, yet are defined in the homeo sapien sapiens spectrum?

I have no idea what youre getting at here. Do you mean (more simply stated) that being H.s.s. have special Hs means to adapt? Im lost at what youre trying to get at here.


Quote:
There is also the philosophical implications of phylogeny, possible systematic errors being derrivations of cognitive bias.

all phylogenetic nomenclature has bias. We give names in some silly Linnean system that is Creationist in its intent yet we give new species names to creatures that may really be linked closely enough to be reproductively viable partners. We use pretty much latin names (except for the most recent australopithecene named Sahelensis (we sorta glommed two separate languages together, Afar and Latin

Quote:
it is open to falsification, just as melanocyte activity is not necessarily exclusive
exclusive to what? anyway, all good science is theoretically falsifiable


Quote:
The error appears to be the 'cladistics' of phylogeny
What you just said makes little sense. Im a student of cladistics and while it includes the organizational systematics applied in phylogenetic hierarchies , what you just stated is like saying that " The error appears to be the organization systems of how things are organized" Youve got to be more focused and stop just flinging words around for their impact.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 06:20 pm
@spendius,
I read that people living at high altitudes are more likely to practice polyandry than people living near to sea levels.

I suppose I could dream up the reason on the W.J. Bryan principle I mentioned the other day.
0 Replies
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 07:17 pm
@farmerman,
I will modify my language:
Quote:
I have no idea what youre getting at here. Do you mean (more simply stated) that being H.s.s. have special Hs means to adapt? Im lost at what youre trying to get at here.


The variation, such as the morphogensis that defines sherpa lung capacity, is the shepas lungs anatomically different from other races, is there an anatomical definition, how is diversity defined in homo sapien sapiens species?

To clarify, I desire reductionalism.
Quote:

exclusive to what? anyway, all good science is theoretically falsifiable


Melanine activity varies between races, however there is 'black' homo sapien sapiens races of 'white' race offspring, are you certain the lung variants are exclusive to the sherpas?

All "good science is theoretically falsifiable", being that the samples are limited, this is why I argue formal logic, empiricalism is infinite in this case.

Quote:
What you just said makes little sense. Im a student of cladistics and while it includes the organizational systematics applied in phylogenetic hierarchies , what you just stated is like saying that " The error appears to be the organization systems of how things are organized" Youve got to be more focused and stop just flinging words around for their impact.


I am refering to phylogensis/tree concept, not systematics, that is the 'cladistics', why are there 'clades', when is a 'clade' valid?

Philosophically, this realism is open to paradoxes.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 07:39 pm
@Anomie,
Animals acclimate to their environment, and that includes humans.
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 07:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I do not deny this, however I am arguing that human speciation is being prohibited by culture.

All humans reproduce and diversify their genes.

How does the allele frequency increase, excluding the isolations suggeste by farmerman?
0 Replies
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 07:47 pm
@farmerman,
When I stated macro/gross selection pressures this may infact be the darmaction problem of philosophy/science, formal/informal modal errors.

It is paraconsistent.

Though, cladism convolutes the spectrum, just as the macro/micro evolutionary continuum does.

I am suggesting that either, the concept of macro evolution is removed, being entirely holistically constructed, or the reverse, micro evolution is removed.

The error here is, reproduction, therefore the basis/origins are flawed, as you already stated, the Linean taxonomy.

0 Replies
 
Anomie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Feb, 2012 08:02 pm
Perhaps, the removal of a subspecies and race will clarify, perhaps it is all unnecssary categorisation, however there is 'gradualism' concepts, morphology/time inconsistncies.

The gentics appears to be empirically consistent, it the statistical implications that may be of systematic bias.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 06:05 am
@Anomie,
Quote:
why are there 'clades', when is a 'clade' valid?


To facilitate the simple classification of organisisms for botanists and biologists and for those who like to use unusual words to frighten aunties.

On the tree of life principle the word is the equivalent of life because all life has one ancestor and thus there is but one clade. It is always valid then. It is also pointless scientifically.

It is part of a special language designed to blind us with science and used by a certain group the members of which are cladistically related psychologically. e.g. Pumpers are ladies with extra large norks aka funbags. The whole idea breaks down as soon as it is properly thought about.

What is a sherpa?

The man who broke the 4 minute mile barrier, Dr Roger Bannister, was reputed to have a lung capacity 50% larger than average.

PS. You should stop flinging words about for their impact. Only fm is permitted that privilege on here. If you wish to usurp his unique position in our little coterie you should know that it is a laughing stock.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 07:33 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Ricky Santorum is one of the "candidates" who's really pushing for teaching Intelligent Design. Apparently he doesnt understand what the Constitution says either.
Unfortunately there's a good chance then that he doesn't understand basic science either. And if he's a Creationist, then he doesn't even have a firm grip on reality.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 07:50 am
Quote:
Teaching science to the religious? Focus on how theories develop
(February 18, 2012 | By David Orenstein | Brown University)

Brown biology Professor Ken Miller understands that most students are religious. He is too. The way to teach science to religious students is to show how scientific ideas come to be, he says. Students can learn that religious people engage in scientific explorations of nature, and that theories are based on observation and logic, not some anti-religious agenda.

Vicious, winner-take-all competition in nature is an essential pillar of evolutionary theory, but it frequently describes the mindset people have about how, or whether, to teach the subject. Religious students sometimes come to class thinking that science and religion are in deliberate opposition, like two lionesses fighting over a kill. When Brown University biologist and practicing Catholic Kenneth Miller teaches evolution, he also teaches that such a zero-sum mindset just isn’t warranted.

“I think it’s really unnecessary,” Miller said. “What’s extremely unfortunate right now is that, not just evolution, but whole areas of science have been sucked into the culture wars argument and it’s been taken for granted, therefore, that science takes a particular position in the left-right spectrum.”

Because Miller is a leading textbook author and a frequent contributor to the public discourse, he takes flak from partisans on both sides who disagree about evolution but share the view that religion and science are intellectually incompatible. In the classroom, however, Miller and thousands of other educators are still left with a more pragmatic challenge. Evolution will be taught to millions of students who are religious — 75 percent, according to a recent Pew survey of college students. At the AAAS conference on Saturday, Feb. 18, 2012, at 1 p.m., Miller will speak about how he teaches science to religious students.

Miller’s basic approach is to help students trace the development of a scientific theory, rather than to present it as some kind of finished doctrine that must be believed because it has evidentiary support.

“I don’t ask students to believe in education because I don’t ask them to believe in DNA either,” Miller said. “To me the word ‘believe’ means to accept something beyond question. In science there are no facts or theories that are beyond question. What I do urge students to do is to learn about the evidence and understand why the scientific community finds it persuasive.”

Explaining science, such as evolution, as a process can help religious students accept science in two ways, Miller said. First of all, it’s often important to point out that religious people have long been instrumental in driving the scientific process. A scientist’s goal is to better understand the natural world, not to destroy religious faith, Miller said. History is replete with examples of religious people who carried out the goal of exploring nature in entirely scientific ways — from Copernicus, to Mendel, to Francis Collins.

“The birth of the scientific revolution was in large measure funded by the church because early universities, early scientific investigations, almost universally were done by individuals who thought that exploring nature was a way of praising God,” Miller said. “It was and is philosophically consistent to be a person of faith and also a scientist.”

Secondly, when science is presented as a rational process, rather than as doctrine to be accepted, students can consider its logic and its evidentiary support, before feeling pressure to reconcile the complete idea’s philosophical implications.

Darwin himself laid out the theory of evolution in The Origin of Species this way. Before he presents the bottom line, his first four chapters offer the series of observations about species diversity and the struggle to survive that led him to the theory.

“The best way to approach deeply religious students on a scientific issue is to develop the scientific background, to show that science doesn’t grow out of some sort of anti-theological or political perspective, but out of a very human drive to understand ourselves and the world around us,” Miller said. “They see that it is not an a priori cultural and social conclusion for which you are trying to find a justification but rather the logical outcome of being curious about nature and trying to find out how it works.”

There is good news about how effective evolution education can be in the research of Roger Williams University Professor Avelina Espinosa. She’s found that whether students are religious or not, politically conservative or liberal, their acceptance of evolution increases the more science classes they take, Miller said. That doesn’t mean that all religious students come to accept the theory, though.

Early in his teaching career at Brown, Miller delivered a biology lecture to his class on Ash Wednesday — this year it’s Feb. 22 — and then headed off to Brown’s Manning Chapel to pray. On his way out of services he ran into one of his students, who looked amazed to see the evolutionist lecturer emerge with ash on his forehead.

He recalled, “She waited for me and came up to me and said, ‘Hi, Professor Miller, what are you doing here?’ My answer was ‘I’m doing the same thing you are.’ And she said, ‘But, you can’t. I’ll give you a book tomorrow that explains why no person who accepts evolution can possibly be a person of faith.’

“That, to me, was a shock,” Miller said.

The student brought the book and the two met and talked, but never came to a philosophical agreement. Mindsets are not easy to change, but teaching methods can create the right conditions for reasonableness to evolve.

“There are ways to reach religiously oriented students with respect to science,” Miller said.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 08:48 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
The best way to approach deeply religious students on a scientific issue is to develop the scientific background, to show that science doesn’t grow out of some sort of anti-theological or political perspective, but out of a very human drive to understand ourselves and the world around us,” Miller said. “They see that it is not an a priori cultural and social conclusion for which you are trying to find a justification but rather the logical outcome of being curious about nature and trying to find out how it works.


And cultures are a part of our nature. Science owes its very existence to culture. Our science to our culture. So we should be curious about culture and about our own.

And can a significant culture work over centuries without religion? A domestic culture at the household level, or at the humanist meeting level, is of no consequence.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 09:08 am
@spendius,
BTW--I didn't know lionesses fight over a kill.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Feb, 2012 11:09 am
@wandeljw,
Generally good stuff. However, religion has been a huge imediment to sceintific discovery in Western Europe. The partnership between the Christian religions and science required the broader spread of the Protestant Reformation. Actually, the real partnershhip between religion and science had been a standard in the early days of ISlam, where many religions lived more or less as an entire ecosystem. Christianity, for most of its history was not too permissive in how science was pursued.
Galileo thought he was exhalting his God in his work and the Church thought otherwise.
Newton was an alchemist first and foremost, aphysical "scientist" secondly
 

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