Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

The experiment has already been performed; look at the history of football.

Did you pull rank on them fm?

You're not at the races ci.

I hope wandel will keep us up to date as to the rise and fall of the Indiana proposal . Since it appears dead right now, is there any change in wording (besides the last reported) to reintroduce in the next session?
We sorta do that in Pa to let everyone know that

"the reports of its demise are certainly premature"

The main thing about the Indiana proposal is that there was a sufficiently strong motive for making it. And, presumably, everything you know about it, and much much more, is meat and drink to those persons colluding, or caucusing, to bring it forward.

The motive, as one might expect when movers and shakers are at work, consists of a distillation of a range of motives which is characterised by a complexity you are not ready for dealing with. It would unhinge some of your fondest shibboliths, and you have your quota of those overpassed. But your broad swipes at the matter with your DIY gasometer painting brush approach is commendable for its consistency and reliability. And gasometers do need painting from time to time to provide the community with a supply of hot gases.

I'm more of a fine brush stroke type myself. Looking for the inner essence of things. Such as what is actually going on in Indiana politics. It's landlocked for a start. Like Serbia and Zimbabwe. It's GDP is well over $200 billion and its largely from manufucturing. Steel, cars, drugs, machines and ****. It's a big player. In biology too. I don't know if the original forests were classed as rainforests but they were pretty well cleared away. No doubt some pockets of woodland remain if only for their scenic beauty and their capacity to sustain field trips from the educational hierarchy whilst retaining most of their pristine purity. And it's 16% secular. And the 16% have numerous court decisions on their side.

Did you notice that GWB won one election carrying states that were one continuous geographical area with access to the world's seaways. The "Flyover" states I think they got tagged with by the decadent areas on either side. Oh how we larfed.

The big problem with the slap-it-on-thick method is that you can paint one gasometer after another in exactly the same way and you never find out anything interesting about the essence of things.

You're the same on the Constitution. And on evolution and religion.

It's all so simple. Mention the magic words "Madison and Jay" and lo and behold spendi has been contradicted. When spendi has the temerity to ask what it was that Mr Madison and Mr Jay had said nothing is forthcoming.

As if mentioning these two illustrious names automatically impresses the cowed audience regarding knowing anything significant about those guys or what the buggers were up to.

How many times has what I have said been dismissed because I was pissed?

The Constitution is based on nobody trusting anybody and finding a bottom line everybody can work with after a fashion.

Whatever has taken place the motive, and its tentacles of lesser motives, has not gone away. We can agree about that.

One look at the smirking fatty was enough for me. Vanity is easy to spot when its that up-front.

Is there a coherent thought in all of that forest floor duff?

spendi skirted all around what he was trying to say, and failed like he always does. Only people with equal imagination with spendi could figure out what he was trying to say. His analogies doesn't make any sense.

Thank you for sharing Izzy. I started a conversation on antisemitism so that it will not mess up this thread any more than it has.

http://able2know.org/topic/184162-1#post-4886794

It was simple. fm doesn't know what he's talking about is what it was saying but I fluffed it up a bit, not as much as I might have done if other important matters hadn't forced me to be economical with my time, so that it didn't seem quite so stark and impolite.

That anyone who talks about the legislature in a social entity of the complexity of Indiana (<7 million souls) in the manner fm does cannot possibly know what he's talking about because anybody who does know what he's talking about on a matter like that wouldn't know how to talk about it as fm has.

I should imagine that it is only the fact that wande has found the subject on some obscure blog that has made it seem a matter of much interest. i.e. providing fm with spout fodder.

Indiana will have carried on as usual in the meantime.

You wrote,

spendi, Everybody can see that's an oxymoron when it applies to you! LOL

Does that sound like the 84% non-secularites in Indiana are backward in the scientific world of competitive manufacturing.





I think fm is going to need a very large gasometer paintbrush to paint out religion in Indiana. The Happy Hunting Grounds are probably still a factor.

Is that holding back science education.

Are you creating new words again, spendi? Religion isn't the basis of any country's economic productivity.

Japan is the third largest economy in the world, but the primary religions in Japan are buddhism/shintoism, which most people do not practice regularly in their daily lives.

Your analysis are wrong and based on nothing more than your imagination and misinterpretations.

Perhaps spendi is trying to make a point that Christianity and science are not necessarily separate. He would be right of course if the Fundamentalist sects of Christianity would be quiet and stop trying to get their brands of "Science" taught in schools.
NOTRE DAME UNIVERSITY (Zip code 46556) is located about 10 mi from SO Bend In . Its curriculum in the bio and Geological sciences includes Darwinian evolution by nat selection and "Deep time" geology. No considerations are made to accomodate the IDers and Creationists. In Fact the chairpeople and two Nobel Laureates who are associated with Notre Dame were co-signators of the letters sent to the Indiana Legislature to "back off on the stupid Creationism in Biology BILL).
I think that argument evidences quite well that most mainstream Christian religions are not luddites or anti-evolutionists. They are proud (in spendi-speak) anti-IDers.

A grudging admission that the idea that religion is holding science back is strictly for the dumb-asses.

What about the Hatch Act then? Is it still the law?

Back to the ball game which is great TV. It's what TV is for.

It isn't religion that's holding science back; it's those dumb-assses who believe creationism belongs in science.

You dont even make sense when you are sober. Are you sober?

Which one? Anyway, Notre Dame faculty are not public employees. Its a private religious founded institution.

You know what the Hatch Act is. You're being coy.

I'm referring to you and wande. This thread is political activity of a high order. The question, avoided as per usual, was-- is the Act still in operation?

As you correctly point out the Notre Dame faculty has nothing to do with the matter.

Yes I do know what the HATCH ACTS are. They are a group of acts(not just 1) that were to limit political activities of public employees. Theyve been modified so many times that they are only shadows of their former selves. SO whats the point about Hatch Acts that Im suupposedly being so coy about?
I must inform you tht you are < technically still under my "ignore button" and I cant get you off. SO I usually have to "Peek". I have been reading your posts but not all of them so I guess I may have missed a major post you might have made on Hatch ACts.(sommetimes your run-on fevered strings of disjointed thoughts actually get painful to read so I often just punt) I know you Google things about US culture in order to sound half smart but usually you only get em half correct . SO Im not too excited that I missed anything of vintage political regulation, Im sure you had a point that, to you, was entirely valid. (I usually conclude that most of your often fevered inserts are entirely vapid)

Where you once again miss the point is that, although Notre DAme is a sectarian University, their science faculties came out to oppose the proposed "Creationism in SCience Class" for Indiana. Notre DAme aint Liberty U, its a huge Catholic teaching/research intitution that seems to be firm;y footed in modern scientific method. It does your argument no good toto try to ignore and institution like Notre DAme because , as you always ignore, the Creationist/ID movement is being promu;gated by a very small minority of Fundamentalist Christians and not "mainstream Christianity" (Its sorta like you were speaking out for adoption of AMISH "Ordnung" rules for all public schools--Its a bit ridiculous the position youve taken but the fact that its illogical seems to bear little measurable weight in your mind).
CONSEQUENTLY, because the Creationist worldview being proposed is of such a minority view and clearly identifiable as CREEDs of the several Fundamental sects, It would constitute a religious pov as defined under the "Establishment Clause" of the first Amendment of our "250 year old and therefore outdated" Constitution.

I'm not saying that the Constitution is outdated particularly. But under the principles of " co-operative federalism" (in any country -even N. Korea) action is shaped by administrative convenience and political or group pressures as well as by a set of written rules no matter how foundational they are. The more complex the relations between states the more these factors come into play.

Hiding behind the Constitution is pedantic nonsense. It's as if 308 million human beings thrashing about on a patch of dirt sticking up out of the shining sea are like chemicals in a retort. They are not.

The point stands that 84% non-secularites in Indiana are obviously not being held back scientifically by religious considerations and that they were being has been one of the main arguments of anti-IDers.

I'm better that half smart fm. I'm **** hot. Of course I use Google for facts backing up my stance but I read a lot of other stuff as well.

I'm suggesting that you are being coy because you have taken one side in this highly political matter and in public and, if you have been a recipient of Congressional appropriations, you should not have done.

Once again you have little understanding of what you write. Did you just look that up and are trying to insert it into your scribbles so that I would be impressed at your depth of knowledge or, as I think, are you just tossing cooked pasta onto the backsplash?


Well, to tell you the truth, we looked at changing our laws each week and we couldnt agree on whod do all the changes to our websites

Whatever a secularity may be, they ARE NOT being held back because we havent YET allowed the Creationists to move into biology . See , youre taking credit for the system I endorse, not the one you endorse (duhhhh_

Oh so you claim that Im covered under a Hatch Act. Maybe, but the 1990' revisions to HAtch Acts have almost made em disappear. ANYWAY, just because Im in the scientific priesthood doesnt mean that I renounce my citizenship.

youre a hard ash newell post