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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2011 06:10 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It's not unlike the grey squirrel in England working its way north at the expense of the red squirrel. And that's evolution in action. Last I heard the greys had reached a line between the Mersey and The Wash.

Genetic imperialism.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:07 am
@spendius,
Thorstein Veblen was not noted for being enthusiastic about religion. In fact he has a lot of very sarcastic expressions relating to priestcraft.

But in the essay Industrial Exemption and Conservatism, which gets very evolutionary, he has this to say--

Quote:
In order to realize the difficulty which such a radical change in any one feature of the conventional scheme of life would involve, it is only necessary to suggest the suppression of the monogamic family, or of the agnatic system of consanguinity, or of the theistic faith, in any country of the Western civilization; or suppose the suppression of ancestor worship in China; or of the caste system in India, or of slavery in Africa, or the establishment of equality of the sexes in Mohammedan countries. It needs no argument to show that the derangement of the general structure of conventionalities in any of these cases would be very considerable. In order to effect such an innovation a very far-reaching alteration of men's habits of thought would be involved also at other points of the scheme than the one immediately in question. The aversion to any such innovation amounts to a shrinking from an essentially alien scheme of life.


I think that the teaching of evolution is just such a change. It undermines theistic faith and is intended to do. And the bud has not opened yet.

So anti-IDers need to get on with promoting a change of the nature described good enough to stop us shrinking back and tempting us to go forward with them into this wonderful alien land

or

show that it is not a change of the magnitude I am asserting.

It's a pity Mr Veblen didn't see fit to include the missionary position in his list.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2011 09:28 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The aversion to any such innovation amounts to a shrinking from an essentially alien scheme of life.


I must admit that I have not one cell in my body which seeks to embrace any alien ways of life. Such an embrace is eagerly sought by the immigrant and its generalised and diffused ethos in an immigrant culture is only to be expected.

Therein might lie our differences. We might as well be arguing the relative merits of our versions of football. Our's having evolved and your's having been drawn up on a sheet of paper a mere 80 years ago.

Here we go again. An evolutionist must think our version of football is authentic, like a Rhode Island Red cock at a show, and your's to be a sort of drawing board production having had a Creator who we have photographs of.

Psychologically one might say that seeking to embrace alien schemes is a characteristic of the unsettled.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2011 11:40 am
@spendius,
You don't need to embrace the alien form of life because you're already an alien.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2011 11:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
That's just another way of expressing that I'm a ******* idiot. As such it means the same; which is **** all.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2011 12:12 pm
@spendius,
When you identify yourself so readily, you got to accept facts.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 02:44 am
@cicerone imposter,
Spendius oddness is amusing but certainly not because he is stupid...he is probably one of the most clever guys in the forum by far...he just speaks a language of his own and don´t gives a rats ass about you getting it or not...in short Spendius reasoning does not address temporal phenomena...he has a top down approach to space and time and such...of course, getting both languages I am delighted to see the circus on fire when he is around !
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 03:35 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Laughing Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 12:31 pm
Veblen wrote in The Belief in Luck, Chap.11 of The Theory of the Leisure Class--

Quote:
The industrial disability entailed by a popular adherence to one of the higher anthropomorphic cults may be relatively slight, but it is not to be overlooked. And even these high-class cults of the Western culture do not represent the last dissolving phase of this human sense of extra-causal propensity. Beyond these the same animistic sense shows itself also in such attenuations of anthropomorphism as the eighteenth-century appeal to an order of nature and natural rights, and in their modern representative , the ostensibly post-Darwinian concept of a meliorative trend in the process of evolution. The animistic explanation of phenomena is a form of the fallacy which the logicians know by the name of ignava ratio. For the purposes of industry or of science it counts as a blunder in the apprehension and valuation of facts.


The Constitution and Evolution Theory being thereby designated as religions just as Oswald Spengler has done.

Half-baked scarcely does you lot justice. You want us to change religions presumably because you don't care for the rules of the one we have, which are enforced by not much more than a frown, and replace them by either no rules or very similar rules enforced by the law. And on the basis of a fallacy and a blunder caused by lazy minds too ready to rush to self-serving conclusions and easily rendered apoplectic by anybody who stands in your way.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 04:28 pm
Spendius argues that I dont listen to him, Or something like that.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 05:57 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The Constitution and Evolution Theory being thereby designated as religions just as Oswald Spengler has done.


When I was at school, I received a textbook in which someone had scribbled 'Oswald sucks pig's knobs.' I don't know if he was talking about Spengler or some other Oswald. I thought I'd include it in the interests of furthering the debate.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:08 am
@izzythepush,
Finally, something of substance in this conversation.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:12 am
@edgarblythe,
Thank you, I've always considered myself a bit of an intellectual heavyweight, so it's nice to be appreciated.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:14 am
@izzythepush,
You certainly demolished spendi this time around.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:18 am
@edgarblythe,
It was quite an old textbook, for all I know Spendi may have written it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:05 am
@edgarblythe,
I'm out of my depth now. Whoever it was who defaced izzy's book should be traced and informed that remote ripples of his actions continue to emanate into space. I feel sure that if Herr Spengler's parents could have foreseen this event they would have called him Wolfgang or something. Then where would izzy be?

It reminds me of an occasion when I was in the demolition and dismantling business and the head teacher of a Catholic school rang up to see if I might be interested in 200, or so, old desks which had been taken out of service so that contracts for new desks could be signed and the budgets, by which status is measured, could be increased up the various chains of command within one niche infested by the species paperworkus imalrightjackium and provide a boost to the Gross National Product. Each level being added by the Office of Budget Control. But I'll not expand on that seeing that this is a thread for simpletons.

I have always been artistically drawn towards large numbers of similar objects. The gaudy pebble on the beach was never as interesting as the mass of ordinary ones. And it had struck me that the desks might be renovated and sold to lower-middle-class parents who were seeking to prove the superiority of their genetic constitution by driving their little kids a lot harder than they had been driven themselves. Or as ornaments and garden shed furniture. Or all the lot to a film studio. And they were free. So I took them.

I stored them in a surprisingly small area and took two of them round to a retired cabinet maker I had got to know in the pub who would work for no compensation, other than a pint or two, because he liked nothing better than being busy with his hands and he had a fully kitted-out workshop in his back garden and a termagant in the house. When he had finished with them they would make any lower-middle-class other- improver pair-bond proud to see their offspring sat at them in the evenings and at weekends cruddling over their algebra homework and writing essays about the effects of the El Nino on weather patterns in the USA. And learning the Thersites part for a Dramatic Society's production of Troilus and Cressida with certain passages having been put on Ignore. Presumably because the intended audience would be an aggregate of LMCOIs who wouldn't notice anything anyway apart from how wonderful each one's little monster is performing in the costume made of cut up old nighties, shirts, cornflake packets and such like in which each Mum takes just pride.

When I told him there were 200 he looked at me in a manner which caused me not to pursue the matter any further. But he told me that the timber in them was excellent stuff and could be sold to those engaged in antique restoration. It was when a few were dismantled that I noticed the graffiti on the lids. Blimey I thought, after I had studied a few superficially, 200 true life confessions of kids within a certain time frame, in a mining town and all good Catholics. Not a long time frame because, to mangle Robert Frost--"Something there is that doesn't love a desk".

Some of it was carefully chiselled. All of it, put together, boiled down to "I HATE ******* SCHOOL" with a sub-text relating to the opposite sex.

So I approached the local council chap who was in charge of Contemporary Arts. Displays, exhibitions and PR basically plus about £60 grand a year not including perquisites. He had a well tended moustache. I wanted them to be exhibited. The honest gut feeling of kids of about 15 all laid out. On tables in a smallish annexe. Where Johnny Rotten and Sid came from. And I'll give the guy his due. He saw what I saw with only minor guidance. Not as powerfully. He glimpsed it and said he would approach those responsible for the allocations of monies. Which some call the "swag". When he came back to me about a month later he informed me that after due consideration it had been decided that it wasn't the sort of thing the council's Contemporary Arts were seeking to promote. And, like the cabinet-makers frown, I knew it was no use arguing. I was acquainted with a few of those responsible for allocating monies. I had helped them to get elected.

Later on I found out that a colleague in the demolition business had a collection of doors of ladies toilets from the public buildings he had removed. Usually old-fashioned pubs of the type made popular by the drinking classes. Ones with no access for modern delivery vehicles.

The graffiti in izzy's book is one item. It's a next-to-nothing thing. My 2oo desk lids were as covered in graffiti as this page is. Fluff is not something to get any big ideas about. One can't denigrate swots because some 15 year old girl carefully printed on a desk lid "SWOTS IS HORRID".
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:23 am
@spendius,
I never imagined that such an offhand remark would prompt a eulogy. If Spengler's parents had called their son Wolfgang, my life would have probably taken a completely different course.

My most memorable piece of grafitti was on an old biology desk, where someone had scratched, 'Big Giovanni and his bouncing gonads.' At the time I thought it was a circus act.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:36 am
@izzythepush,
What type of person do you envisage took the trouble to write it izzy?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:39 am
@spendius,
One of the ruder, much bigger boys.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 09:57 am
@izzythepush,
I would have thought it was an intelligent female who took her biology seriously.
0 Replies
 
 

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