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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 10:40 am
@farmerman,
That's the can of worms they can't seem to overcome, but they keep trying. A simple thing called "evidence" seems to be missing from all of their challenge based on ID.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 10:44 am
@wandeljw,
Wandel's source wrote:
“All of you attending this lecture tonight have just demonstrated the Darwinian principle of survival of the swiftest,” said Donald Furst, professor of art at the University of North Carolina Wilmington.


Professor of Art? UNC Wilmington? What, they couldn't get anyone in the sciences to sponsor this thing? They couldn't stir up any interest in Chapel Hill? How very, very sad for these people.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 10:49 am
Quote:


In the natural world, Behe gives the examples of bacterial flagellum and the cell. He says that because the flagellum and cell are complex minute biological machines, they couldn’t have evolved on their own through gradual change over millions of years with natural selection.

In short, Behe says much of life is too complex to be explained by random mutations.


This is asinine. Why? B/c the speaker doesn't acknowledge the 500 failed mutations for every one which was successful.

Sure, these complex machines evolved, b/c they were the ones who lived. The ones that didn't work, didn't. It provides the arrow of direction for evolution to work...

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 11:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Behe doesn't understand how the flu strain evolves from year to year.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 12:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
yes he does. He understands it damn well. He just states that theres another reason for the event.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 12:16 pm
@squinney,
Total brainwashing of their children works wonders; they become like their parents.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 01:57 pm
wande finds a report in some newspaper about a little meeting of 300 axe-grinders and up you lot jump like one of Pavlov's dogs and bark you same old bark reflex barks.

Do you never get fed up of yourselves.

No comment on my post about materialism. You can't defend your own position. You just knock the other side and offer nothing in its place. You could always recommend staring at the wall if you are scared of the other logical outcomes of materialist philosophy.

Mr McCain should have promised gold bathroom fittings, six cars apiece, free health care, no taxes, the Dow at 25,000 and a birfday party orgy once a week if he had never considered outcomes. Everybody would have voted for that. The reason he didn't promise those things is because he would have been grilled on every TV channel about the outcomes.

Why are you lot exempt from such tiresome considerations as explaining the outcomes with 300,000,000 flat out materialists with no beliefs. Just the scientific facts.

Ask someone with intelligence what ci's post about "brainwashing" and kids being like their parents actually means to him. If he doesn't tell you that it's an ignorant, uneducated blurt he is not intelligent.

Who does ci. want the kids to be like? What does he mean by "like"?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 02:11 pm
@spendius,
spendi, The only pavlov dog around here is you. You jump every time somebody mentions god, ID, creationism, religion, socialism, evolution, IDiots, agnostics, atheists, christians, and materialism.

spendi asks:
Quote:
Ask someone with intelligence what ci's post about "brainwashing" and kids being like their parents actually means to him. If he doesn't tell you that it's an ignorant, uneducated blurt he is not intelligent.

When the child is at the mercy of his/her parent to teach them about facts, evidence, and common sense, they instead learn about miracles, and some cockamamie god creating earth in seven days.

Who does ci. want the kids to be like? What does he mean by "like"?


spendi probably never heard the terms "like father like son," or "like mother like daughter." They continue to misinform their children about gods, because they in turn learned it from their parents.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 03:06 pm
Professor Willey wrote-

Quote:
I have dwelt thus long upon this topic because the debate between the Cambridge Platonists and Hobbes has more than an antiquarian interest; it is the seventeenth century version of the unending debate between belief and unbelief. It was necessary to refure Hobbes, because in him "the new philosophy" had most clearly shown its hand--or rather its cloven hoof. Here was philosophy not only broken loose from its immemorial alliance with theology, but actually challenging and undermining all the traditional assumptions of religion and ethics. The threat from this direction seemed to the Cambridge Platonists all the more alarming because of the fearful disunity of Chrisendom at that time. The rival creeds, confessions, sects and church politics were so fanatically engrossed in inter-nicene conflicts that they hardly noticed the real, the awful danger threatening them all alike. Behind the smokescreen of controversy the diabolical philosopher was preparing an atomic ( I should perhaps calli it a 'corpuscular') bomb, which would blow them all, and religion itself, to smithereens. Could not something be done before it was too late? The Platonists believed that something could be done, and they believed that the thing to do was to enlist philosophy on the side of the angels instead of allowing it to secede to the devil's party. Show that religion is indeed philosophical, show that Reason is the organ of spiritual vision, and you will at once unite the brawling sects and defeat the atheistic aggressor.


This is the 21st century version. Switch Behe & Co for the Cambridge Platonists and science for philosophy and it's the same unending debate. The key to understanding it is the word "show".

The reason effemm is wasting his time demanding evidence, knowing full well there is none, as everybody does, is because people who want to be on the side of the angels are much more easily "shown" than he is. It's what they want. For it to be made to look good enough for them and the committed atheists can whistle in the wind. Behe & Co are weaving the winds in a way the bulk of the population approves of like when you buy a carpet because you like it's pattern.

The silly, childish arguments of anti-IDers on here are the same as a bloke with big feet telling you he takes a large shoe size. Over and over and over.

You're all missing the point. The public don't want atheism. End of bloody story. I read they would rather vote for a dog than an atheist. That's why the religious aspects of elections exists.

Sell atheism and get real. Tell us what we get. If it's good enough they will buy it. Anybody can kick the stock of a china-shop around. They say bulls are good at it. Nobody likes negativity except pessimists.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 03:40 pm
@spendius,
Shoes has absolutely nothing to do with creationism/ID. You should try fitting one on your head.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 04:05 pm
@spendius,
China shops that handle crockery and try to sell it as porcelain should have a shoe kicking them in the butt before taking on the IDer's crock(ery) of baloney.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 04:31 pm
Exposed again as stumped. No answers. Just blurts.

Show us your much vaunted atheism in action. All Behe & Co have to do is make their case "plausible". And keep on and on without losing heart which they won't. People want to believe it. They know that can't believe in nothing. It's depressing. It's a vacant stare. It can only be put up with by fighting the believers. If everybody believed in nothing you lot would have nowhere to go.

You need IDers more than you realise. They provide you with an outlet for the rage that comes with believing in nothing. Check out vodka sales in Russia.
Check out the synergy between secularisation and tranquilliser sales. Fighting IDers is a tranquilliser. As is hyperactivity. An escape is needed from meaninglessness.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 05:10 pm
@spendius,
Again, randomness scares people -- religion is a way to explain randomness (Fran Leibowitz). ID is a religion, not a science, so as far as blurts, Behe and Co. are experts at it. If ID is taught, it's the purpose of the church, synagogue, temple, mosque, et al to fulfill the requirement of educating the believers. It can't be mandatory for any teacher in any educational institutions to whisk it up with real science and take over the responsibility of religions.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 05:29 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
All Behe & Co have to do is make their case "plausible". And keep on and on without losing heart which they won't. People want to believe


Therefore, in the eyes of the angels, any deceit is preferred if it is in the case of the Lord. Truth only need be demanded in the secular world.

Then the IDers should stop their charade as "real" scientists in the quest of some universal truth. Its all just a pile of religious garbage with some fancy words to trick out their ark.

"Creationism in a lab coat" still stands as the most accurate definition of ID, no matter how loud you cluck, or how many attempts you make to divert our attentions.

Youve had over 3 years beating your drum and still havent convinced anyone . Could it be that your sample case is MT?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 05:30 pm
@spendius,
Nobody can make something plausible from a nothing like ID or gods.
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 05:53 pm
One can believe in providence without a divinity -- that's one of the intangible things we have little control over, but still can accept without any denial. That is not pessimistic nor negative unless one's mind works that way. Verbose declarations disguising that all non-believers are going to hell (or in hell already), including those of other religions, is just vain proselytizing.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 06:39 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Therefore, in the eyes of the angels, any deceit is preferred if it is in the case of the Lord. Truth only need be demanded in the secular world.


That's true enough. It's just that the anti-IDer's version of the secular world is not the real secular world at all. It just pretends it is in order to try to distance itself from hoi polloi which it thinks itself superior to. It's a form of snobbery. The secular world would scoff at the thought of monogamy or there being anything wrong with bestiality or reaming the taxpayers out. One of de Sade's characters planned a famine in order to make a killing on the stock exchange. Don't talk about the ******* secular world whilst pirouetting in a ballet skirt.

I would rather say that any deceit is preferred to the plain, unvarnished scientific truth.

Why should IDers stop their "charade"? Is there a law against it? What do you mean by "should"? Fancy words are all we have. Which other charades should be stopped? What about the one that mimes being a scientist with a selection of fossils?

How do you know I haven't convinced anyone? A lot of people have been on here and dropped out when faced with stuff they hadn't thought about before. You're just asking them to stop thinking like you have.

As far as I can gather the bulk of the population don't need convincing. They know what the father of the bride is giving away and that making it look dignified is better than stating it scientifically which is considered in bad taste. I've been ostracised for even hinting at it. You don't seriously think blokes would line themselves up for the exigencies of marriage for a "hand" do you? Or even a cook and bottle wash in this day and age. "In the eyes of God" is much more seemly and, what is much more important, popular.

Why don't you start a campaign about brides wearing white? Everybody laughs at that charade.

But notice how not convincing you is translated into "anyone". What staggering egoism that reveals.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 06:41 pm
@spendius,
Spendi, youre a **** salesman with a mouthful of product samples.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 06:42 pm
@spendius,
I for one have been convinced that you don't have the intellectual capability to convince anyone of much anything, Spendius, other than your inability to form a coherent thought, let alone an internally consistent position on a scientific matter.

Stick to swilling rum down and thinking you have all the answers.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Shirakawasuna
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Feb, 2009 06:44 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
I have no distaste for science either. It is the closet Christians such as yourself who manipulate the subject without any knowledge of it who I find to be a bit distasteful.


Bullshit. I'd say more, but there's no point. So how 'bout that potential thread of yours? Still a coward?

spendius wrote:
Nobody with a proper scientific cast of mind would write in their own language in the manner you have displayed there.


Yes, yes they would. Most that I've met would dismiss you as boisterous idiot and insult you if you trolled them like you us here. This is more a commentary on your actions than their niceness, however: they're plenty nice to those who aren't cowardly ignorant.

spendius wrote:
You are perfectly free to assume anything you like.


A fitting response for one accused of being a coward.
0 Replies
 
 

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