Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

gunga missed those years. He took "Advanced Flood Geology" instead.

Listem mate, and listen good--if you are not ignorant I have every intention of remaining ignorant and getting as good at it as fast and as comprehensively as I can.

Spendius I know that you are not that bad of as a person even though you have many things wrong as I do but I just thought that you might have wanted, "To be reminded that you are representing creationism and that there are people that are analyzing your behavior and deciding for themselves which direction they may want to take!

What I can't understand is why American teenagers don't down their soggy blotting paper catapults and stay at home. These adults are more than most kids could put up with. It only needs an internet campaign to stop all this useless blather, politicking, and footsie under the table and insist some teaching gets done. Let the ******* truant officers try rounding up 50 million kids.

School is a corrupt racket and has nothing to do with kids.

You prove it every day on a2k. I'm not sure how your mates at the local pub even understand the garbled junk you toss around here. Some times your English is so bad, nobody understands what you're trying to convey.

Not trying to be mean but just as you pay to go on trips, It seems as Spendius may have to pay for friends at the pub and a dance around the ball room as where you may find it to be unethical to pay for such things as they may come naturally to you!

I am sure that I could be wrong and Spendius will help us to understand why!

The Chimpanzee Sequencing and Analysis Consortium (2005)published its first draft of the DNA sequence of the chimp. It was introduced by the following statement:
'More than 150 years ago Darwin and Huxley posited that humans shaer recent common ancestors with African Great Apes. Modern molecular biology has confirmed this prediction in a spectacular fashion"
They were referring to earlier studies since the confirmation hadnt had any jot of data that countered it. STill the, CSAC, had produced its own findings. They, by sequencing both the human and the chimpanzee genomes, made the discovery that opened up a means to a vast batch of data that allowed us to compare every element of the gene sequences of humans and chimps.
They found that:

1HUMANS AND CHIMP CHROMOSOMES DIFFER BY 10 REARRANGEMENTS;Incorporations of chimp sequences are rearranged and compressed in chromosomes 2,4,5 12,15,16,17, 18, and the y chromosome (with minor redirections in the other or the 22 human chromosomes. Chimps and humans also differ a teeny bit in a few other places. Are these rearrangements a big deal? Darwin, in ...The Origin... spent a bit of time discussing the variations that are sufficient to establish different species as opposed to just simple varieties of same species. All Darwin had were the outward appearnaces of the different species.This became a story of geographic isolation of the species from the ancestral form and the establishment of group infertility that would prevent interbreeding after several hundred (or less) generations

2. RETROELEMENTS ARE ACTIVE IN THE GENOMES OF CHIMPS AND HUMANS AND HAVE ONLY BEEN SO ACTIVE SINCE THE TWO SPECIES DIVERGED FROM THE COMMON ANCESTOR>
Transposons, DNA elements that transpose in a cut and paste means (like gungasnales), mutated so much that they were no longer transposing when humans and chimps diverged. So we would expect to find (if evolution of these two species from a common ancestor is a valid hypothesis) that the vast amount of transposons in precisely the same spot in each genome-and, TA DAAA, its what is seen.A few retroelements are still active in both chimps and humans and in these we see that they follow a path unique to each species(either chimp or human but not both).
99% of the millions of retroelements in both genomes (chimp And Human) are in the same positions on the chromosomes. This confirms that the majority of all transposable elements preceded the divergence of chimps and humans from the common ancestor. Theres more (mostly about the Alu Yb8 gene , which is a relatively new "added gene" 22 copies in humans but only 9 in chimps.

3. NEW PSEUDOGENES HAVE ENTERED THE ANCESTRAL GENOMES AND CHIMPS SINCE THEY DIVERGED. Follow. We have a simple way to estimate when a pseudogene gets into the genome. when a pseudo generates a cut and paste copy of itself, the original gene and the copy should be the same. Because a pseudogene doesnt function for anything, any of its acquired mutations are neutral to any selective pressure, since they dont favor or disfavor anything, they should accumulate at a rate that can be described as constant rate. So, the more a pseudogene differs (by mutation) rom its original gene, the older it should be.From Fairbanks.


4. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE CHIMP AND HUMAN GENOMES THAT CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED BY NATURAL SELECTION. later with this one, its quite interesting a discussion by Carroll about the genetic view of conferal of resistance to malaria to both chimps and humans .Except its cool to look at the unique strains of malaria that effect only chimps and humans.

You left out a word... Should read:

Gunga makes baseless assertions. He has embarrassed himself repeatedly over the years by pasting things that should be ignored. The latest faux pas was a thread on whole word primers. The holes in his posts are wide enough to drive a train through, that is, when he isn't simply insulting people.

One has to wonder whether this man has any formal education. I wonder that about you, given your strained syntax.

You need to look up straw man argument because you have no idea what it is.

Do you have any hope that he will ever run those posts through Snopes or FactCheck first? Why he doesn't suspect something is amiss is a mystery.

Your understanding is wrong.

I am not representing Creationism. I can't imagine how you ever thought I was. People will decide for themselves what everything means.

I assume you have no inkling of the "higher censorship". There are certain ideas that are too dangerous to be conveyed to the masses. On the other hand it is dangerous to prevent them being conveyed at all. Hence they are wrapped up in forms of language that the masses can't understand due to comprehension difficulties or inability to expend effort to find out what they are talking about before the urge to talk overwhelms them. There's a bumper sticker which reads ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE PUTTING MOUTH IN GEAR or TAME THE BRAT IN YOURSELF.

We cannot proceed on the basis that some oddball, counter-jumping member of the masses gets his or her knicker twisting exercises into gear because he or she feels left out and demands that all ideas are conveyed in the simple form he or she is capable of understanding. A2K is not to be dumbed down to your or pom's level.

Kindly remember that will you? It will save you a great deal of trouble.

You might consider the economics of beer production compared with that of "trips" and see which one leads to the most pollution. And beer consumption often takes place on "trips". So the "trips" are extras.

Whether it is unethical to whimsically cause the pollution involved in "trips" is probably decided subjectively but the local pub is one of the greenest methods of consuming leisure. I can understand "trips" being had recourse to by those who can't abide their friends and neighbours or are intolerable to them and thus prefer transient and superficial relationships.

It wasn't accidental gunga. We are schooled to need schooling. Check out Illich. Even home schooling is controlled by schooler priestcraft.

This thread, indeed most threads, is inhabited by the schooling priesthood trying to promote their self interest. Their basic delusion is that teaching is learning. All they ever talk about is teaching. The learning doesn't impinge on their selfish skulls. They can hand out their certificates irrespective of the learning and do do. They don't teach really. They get salaries.

Of the nine separate chromosomal inversions that have occured on the human and chimp genomes theyve occured since diversion of the sp[ecies from the common ancestor. Of these inversions, all have associated phenotypic traits associated with them that could only be conferred by evolution. Several of the chimp inversions are common to chimps and one great ape. This means the African great ape and the chimp had differentiated AFTER the common ancestor differentiation beyween chimps and humans. The chimp seems to be the founder species as the afore genetic inversions are unique to chimps AND great apes separately.

Its been possible to do a genetic "timeline" based upon these retroelements, pseudogenes, and inversions in chromosomes to time the occurences of evolutionary development as each of the species developed after they diverged.

The arguments made are being packaged for kids to learn, especially since its a matter of using a bit of l.ogic, and some easy mathematics (identifying all the chromosomal "points" where these inversions occured can be thought of like a genetic "Bar code" and the math is algebra and symbolic language).
TEaching the kids these real world examples of how science is moving along is an effort to develop a greater sophistication in science for our school children. If it were that kids could be taught the logic that the genome employs, there would be fewer fools like gunga spewing their crap without drawing hearty laughter.

Gunga has said that DNA "doesnt support evolution". I say that gunga has never been accused of being an intelligent observer of science. HE seems to have some kind of wifty agenda that includes "Worldwide floods", creation of all living things at once, and Ika stones.

I wonder of he believes that "should he handle any deadly serpent it will not harm our gunga"

There's no danger of that as long as you are able to post anything you wish on these boards.

I suppose that fm's last two posts, off Google mostly, are a precursor of what he wants to manipulate the nation's kids into listening to in classrooms and regurgitating in exams so that his version of things is the way to get the certificates by gaining his approval for swallowing it all, and not asking any awkward questions, or enough of it for him to justify handing out first class honours in order to prove the eminence of his position as a teacher of such brilliant students and deserving of the admiration of the parents of the silly buggers whose genetic material has been so objectively confirmed as being of astonishing quality.

It's funny really how the determination of the need to manipulate can be measured by how much effort is put into persuading us to pay the cost of having the manipulation shoved up our arses.

What his two ridiculous diatribes have to do with whether atheism should be institutionalised in centres of education, so called, I cannot imagine. There's no mention of Worm Sequencing and Analysis Consortia or Kelp Sequencing and Analysis Consortia. Or any other of the myriad other organisms life has made available for our professorial inspection. The ameoba for example.

It's Big Dick trolling goodstyle. It's addicting everybody to love being manipulated with raw and unseasoned turnip stalks for bait. That's where they want you folks. And your kids.

Of course they get all flustered and coyly blushing if you ask them if it is okay to work one's way through the Dictionary of Sexual Perversions to see if any of them are any good, as any scientific mind would do, now that sin and morals are controlled by their monopoly using logical analysis and critically thought out paradigms.

Now that is on topic. Bang on. By the time these devious manipulators are through you will need one of their certificates to breed, and obviously, by then, everybody having capitulated or hid out in the hills to avoid the Mental Realignment Facility, predicted joyously on this very thread, they will be FOR SALE.

Did you see the Japanese girl bow as she was brought up to the very scientifically dressed person, probably male, for her turn to have the Geiger Counter run over her. I'm a tough cookie but a lump jumped into my throat.

It was almost as if she was ashamed of her existence. I've seen it at least ten times and it gets worse with each one.

spendi, You are blind; the only manipulation going on is by creationists trying to include ID into science curriculum - to misinform young kids into thinking something that cannot be proved by evidence. Misleading kids is their only goal.

But what I wish is not the same as a what I could. I don't wish to post some things I could because I respect the sensibilities of others.