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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 12:40 pm
@wandeljw,
Ms Peterson is a Democrat. Mayor Mitch Landrieu is a Democrat and a Roman Catholic and Andy is underage.

Is anybody offering evens on a repeal?
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 12:50 pm
@spendius,
Very good Spendius I liked it as well! What did you think about this part of it?

While there are plenty of jobs for biologists, he said, "there are zero creationist jobs. Zero."
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
Drivel that insults the intelligence of the listener which seems to be innate in that side of the argument. It isn't even relevant. It coyly has the box marked "Controversial Issues" on Ignore as it daren't even think of the contents or even recognise their existence. If it doesn't know about the box it is self-evidently unfit to be pontificating about the education of 50 million kids and those coming after them. It is then nothing but a naive little busybody.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:22 pm
@spendius,
Sorry about that spendius I was not meaning to insult your intelligence! I just was wondering if it was the truth or not, "Would you happen to know?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:25 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
While there are plenty of jobs for biologists, he said, "there are zero creationist jobs. Zero."
You'll be stunned to know then that writing for creationists is a very lucrative market .
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:36 pm
@Ionus,
I do think you are correct as you are most of the time and I did have Idea's such as that floating in my mind!
Would all of these jobs be of the church to disprove evolution or can these jobs be found in other places for other reasons?

I do know that there are people out there that could care less whether what they are trying to sale is truthful or not!
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:49 pm
@reasoning logic,
The creationist writing and lecturing markets are well paid, involve no knowledge of science and as little morality as is possible and still breath .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 06:30 pm
@Ionus,
There's a lot more than the creationist writing and lecturing markets at stake Io.

A very lot.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 06:35 pm
@spendius,
Are you saying that the credibility of the church is at stake?
Lets hope that it is not the same type of stake that all others were burnt on for telling the truth!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 06:50 pm
Creationism is even taught at the union rallies on Sundays!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1pdNN5BePU

Jesus may have been there also!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtT6hZPGpVo

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 06:55 am
@reasoning logic,
What do you know about burnings at the stake rl? Read about it in a book or in a newspaper have you??

That's faith. Have you ever heard of hagiography? Or propaganda? The US burned Ethel Rosenberg. And we know that is a fact. Did any members of your upper middle classes ever go to the chair? How many black people were burned off Death Row which is an institution Europe not only does not have but refuses membership to any country that does.

Are you arguing that if there were no stories of burnings the Church would have your approval?

You're missing the point in your eagerness to indulge your obvious subjectivity and therefore disqualified from discussions about science.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 09:31 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
While there are plenty of jobs for biologists, he said, "there are zero creationist jobs. Zero."

This line is so good it needs to be said again. Im sure the Fundamentalist Christian sympathists will try to find some sort of niche, maybe writing cretionist plays or Bible camp meeting songs, and selling bullshit CDs about Noah and his flatboat.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 09:34 am
@farmerman,
OOOH designing Creation Theme pArks and museums for the Christian Illiterati.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 10:13 am
TENNESSEE UPDATE
Quote:
Dunn-backed bill slammed by ACLU leader
(By Tom Humphrey, Knoxville News-Sentinel, February 27, 2011)

NASHVILLE — An American Civil Liberties Union leader says a bill sponsored by Rep. Bill Dunn, R-Knoxville, is a backdoor means of promoting the teaching of creationism and the debunking of evolution in Tennessee schools.

In a House Education Subcommittee meeting, the measure was also criticized by Jerry Winters, lobbyist for the Tennessee Education Association, as a 'lawyer's dream' containing 'some of the most convoluted language I've ever seen in a bill.'

Dunn said the measure — HB368 — is simply a move to help students become 'critical thinkers' on scientific subjects and that opponents are trying to 'get off on some tangent' by wrongfully saying 'we think there may be something hidden in there.'

The bill itself says it would apply to science subjects causing controversy, 'including, but not limited to, biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning.' Some teachers, the bill says, 'may be unsure of the expectations concerning how they should present information on such subjects.'

It then declares that the state Board of Education and local school officials 'shall endeavor to create an environment within public elementary and secondary schools that encourages students to explore scientific questions.'

Further, it declares that state and local officials cannot 'prohibit any teacher in a public school system … from helping students understand, analyze, critique and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses in existing science theories.'

Hedy Weinberg, executive director of the ACLU in Tennessee, said the bill was reminiscent of the 1925 'Monkey Trial' of a Dayton, Tenn., teacher charged with violating the state's law of the time prohibiting the teaching of evolution.

'This legislation, we believe, is the latest line of attack against evolution in a long-standing campaign,' she said, declaring the bill 'riddled with various euphemisms' used by promoters of creationism or intelligent design who 'seek to subvert scientific principle to religious ideology.'

Weinberg said the measure, if passed, would infringe on constitutional rights by effectively promoting religion in classrooms.

Rep. Harry Brooks, R-Knoxville, noted a provision in the bill declaring it 'shall not be construed to promote any religious or nonreligious doctrine.' With that as part of the bill, Brooks said, he believes it 'expands First Amendment rights.'

Robin Zimmer of Knoxville spoke to the subcommittee in support of the bill, citing a report that said only 28 percent of science students nationwide are proficient in the subject at grade level and that the United States ranks '31st in the world in scientific education.' He declared that promotion of critical thinking would 'start turning those statistics around.'

Zimmer identified himself as a scientist who previously headed a research company on genetics and has learned that many scientific theories are refuted by more research triggered by critical thinking. He did not give his current affiliation in testimony to the subcommittee. The website of Center for Faith and Science International, which states a belief in God as creator of the universe as a core principle, refers to Zimmer as director.

A vote on the bill was postponed, with Democrats on the panel saying they wanted to hear more testimony on exactly what the bill does and its impact on teaching.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 10:46 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
NASHVILLE — An American Civil Liberties Union leader says a bill sponsored by Rep. Bill Dunn, R-Knoxville, is a backdoor means of promoting the teaching of creationism and the debunking of evolution in Tennessee schools.


Groan!! Groan!! How many more places are there in the US that you haven't covered wande?

The Knoxville News-Sentinel is owned by the E.W. Scripps Company. That is a media conglomerate headquarted in Ohio. I think the E.W. Scripps Company has been mentioned before on here and with much the same line of patter.

When has it been postponed till?

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 01:15 pm
@wandeljw,
WOW, from the very heart of the Butler Bill Belt. What goes around comes around.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2011 02:26 pm
@farmerman,
See how fm makes a complete fool of himself by having people on Ignore in order to protect his ignorance of how media conglomerates are run.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:11 am
Quote:
Legislation may hurt science studies
(George Webb, Opinion Essay, The Tennessean, March 1, 2011)

As a historian of science, I find the most recent effort to compromise the quality of science teaching in the public schools (House Bill 386) both curious and disquieting.

Such bills have been introduced in nearly 40 states in the past seven years and are patterned on model legislation developed by anti-evolution organizations such as the Discovery Institute. Louisiana remains the only state to have enacted a statute of this type, but scientific organizations were harshly critical of this action.

A comparison of HB 386 with such legislation reveals many identical statements and ideas. Despite this bill's inclusion of such phrases as "critical thinking skills'' and its focus on the examination of controversies in science, HB 386 seeks to marginalize certain topics in the science curriculum.

To be sure, history reveals many examples of controversies that could be used in science classes to illustrate the scientific pursuit.

One of the most dramatic is the long debate between supporters of the Earth-centered and sun-centered universe.

When Copernicus announced his sun-centered system in 1543, he provided a slightly simpler model, but it was no more accurate than competing Earth-centered systems.

The key to the solar system puzzle came more than 70 years later, when Johannes Kepler showed that more accurate descriptions of planetary motion required a system based on elliptical rather than circular orbits around the sun.

Until Kepler's work, supporters of Earth-centered and sun-centered planetary systems could claim equal accuracy, thus creating a dramatic astronomical controversy.

Such controversies are not the ones addressed by HB 386, however. Rather, it focuses on scientific topics — evolution is listed first in the bill — that "can cause controversy.''

These topics do, indeed, precipitate heated debates and discussions, but primarily within the context of politics, economics or religion.

As such, the "controversial'' nature of such topics would be an appropriate and valuable addition to classes in history, social studies, government or comparative religions.

But to argue, as this bill does, that similar controversies exist among scientists reveals an inadequate grasp of the history and practice of science.

House Bill 386 also presents practical difficulties for science teachers and their students.

If teachers are expected to examine these so-called controversies in the science classroom, they will obviously have less opportunity to discuss the topics included in the Tennessee Science Framework, the document that guides science teaching in the public schools.

This document reflects the science education consensus in the United States, which has been developed by leading educational and scientific organizations. As a result, Tennessee students will be subjected to a flawed science education.

American students consistently perform at an embarrassingly low level in international studies of science and mathematics education.

The solution to this difficulty must be found in improving science education.

It is difficult to imagine how teaching less science so that so-called controversies may be included in the curriculum will result in greater scientific knowledge.

Surely, Tennessee students deserve better.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 10:18 am
It's good to see the sane people in these states speaking up for science and a good educational system.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2011 04:30 pm
@Setanta,
Another circular argument. Good grief! Intellectual my arse.
0 Replies
 
 

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