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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 05:32 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Galloway asserts mutations cannot add any beneficial traits to genomes. A simple counterexample is lactose tolerance in humans. Humans naturally lose the ability to digest lactose after childhood. Around the time animal husbandry was being developed in Europe and other regions, a mutation allowing continued production of lactose digesting enzymes emerged in these populations.
That is an example of keeping for longer a feature that already exists in childhood.....as in different breeds of dogs....it is not a mutation .

Quote:
Luckily, the theory of evolution doesn't rely on random chance nearly as much as creationists like Galloway seem to believe.
Rather blithe statement seeing he doesn't say what evolution does rely on.....other factors that have chance in them .

Quote:
Biologists...... believe it (DNA) evolved from a more rudimentary, self-replicating polypeptide chain through advantageous mutations culled by natural selection.
What ever happened to the argument evolution was created when life began ? Especially as he goes on to say
Quote:
How this original polypeptide formed is a more difficult question, but it is a question of abiogenesis, not evolution.
So does he consider DNA alive or not ?

Quote:
Eventually, Galloway transitions from simply being incorrect to downright offensive with his assertion, "At the core of Hitler's belief was evolution."
He was breeding people to achieve a master race . Now how is that not evolution ?

Quote:
I am not blaming Hitler or the Holocaust on Christianity.
Well that's good, because there were an awful lot of Christians in all the armies .

Quote:
We still don't know plenty about the universe, and much of this may defy any scientific explanation. So why can't religion stick to those questions rather than the ones science has already answered?
Agreed.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 09:40 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Galloway asserts mutations cannot add any beneficial traits to genomes. A simple counterexample is lactose tolerance in humans. Humans naturally lose the ability to digest lactose after childhood. Around the time animal husbandry was being developed in Europe and other regions, a mutation allowing continued production of lactose digesting enzymes emerged in these populations.
LActose inttolerance isnt a mutation as he says, It just an example of the HArdy QWeinberg distribution law. Several populations that have a strong dairy culture have lactose tolerance continue into adulthood via neotony not mutation. These dairy linked Adults merely retain the LA gene

Quote:
self-replicating polypeptide chain through advantageous mutations culled by natural selection. How this original polypeptide formed is a more difficult question, but it is a question of abiogenesis, not evolution.

Polypeptide polymers are NOT part opf evolution, Thats what weve been saying , It appears that Galloway mislabels more than just "mutations".


Quote:
Luther, arguably the father of Protestantism, penned "On the Jews and Their Lies" in 1543, in which he urged Christians to enslave the Jews and burn their homes, schools and synagogues to the ground. Luther believed it was every Christian's duty to take revenge on the Jews for the death of Jesus and wrote, "We are at fault in not slaying them."

Sort of like Mel Gibson's "Pure CAtholicism"
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 09:57 am
@farmerman,
Yes--but who, with even a slight knowledge of historical processes, would think that Luther's real motive was to avenge the murder of Jesus? The Jews were a powerless minority, owned property and didn't have a Nationl Guard.

It's as naive as thinking that Christianity was introduced in Rome for any other reason than a bet on the practical advantages it offered to the successful organisation of the state. However far it shrunk.

fm believes every easy explanation and it becomes a fixed habit of thought, seemingly irreversible, when the easy answer reinforces other easy answers he is subjectively attracted to for reasons I have explained.

We need a theological justification, not a load of special pleading, for the advantages to the state of driving religion to the periphery or liquidating it altogether.

The NCSE should tell us what it wants in THAT respect.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 05:26 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
We need a theological justification, not a load of special pleading, for the advantages to the state of driving religion to the periphery or liquidating it altogether.
Very Happy Atheists dont like it or the democratic process. What's that you say ? What the hell do atheists know about theology ? Nothing...they have made a faith based decision and are emotionally driven . Liquidating religion, an aim expressed on this forum many times, is as pure as wiping out Jews . We have all seen pictures of the elimination of Jews .
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 05:32 pm
@Ionus,
Are you certain that this is the atheist point of view?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:01 pm
@reasoning logic,
It is not the atheist's point of view. Not at all. It is the preaching, militant atheist's point of view because there is no other place for it to be.

Can you not understand the difference between an atheist and an atheist who is trying to persaude us all to be atheists? I'm content to persuade everybody to be good Christians and if you think the fundies are good Christians your Mom must still be wiping your arse.

Is that clear enough rl?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:03 pm
@spendius,
You atheists would all **** your pants full if everybody became atheists as a result of one of your incisive, unanswerable arguments.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 06:29 pm
@spendius,
Maybe you are correct Spendius don't you hate it when those atheist go from door to door preaching the word of atheism? Dam them militant atheist?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Feb, 2011 07:33 pm
@reasoning logic,
rl, I bet you've never been to an atheist church. It explains your, ah, ah, ...
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 05:32 am
@reasoning logic,
Does it not bother you rl that you are discussing these matters with somebody who can write 50 line posts without a single error and you have six careless mistakes in one line?

You are on an international science forum and are, to a certain extent at least, representing American education.

What do such solecisms say about your capacity to debate a subject as complex as this one is. The education of 50 million kids cannot be treated in such a cavalier fashion.

Going to a church wedding with your flies agape is a not too dissimilar breach of taste. You lack respect for A2K in my opinion.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 07:08 am
@spendius,
My solecisms do not bother me very much at all! I hope to do better in the future and I can only guess that in time I will!

I do have a question for you though, Are you saying that you would prefer someone who does not make such mistakes in their writing to lead your church?

I would not think that having the ability to write better than me would make a better leader.
example: Is it possible that some serial killers, rapists and even pedophiles can write better than me?

Do you think that there may be more important intellectual abilities that should be considered when judging one's ability to lead your church than that of solecisms?

What do you think of this fine group of religiously inspired people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BmlnlXeu38

Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 07:44 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Are you certain that this is the atheist point of view?
It is AN atheistic point of view .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 08:44 am
@reasoning logic,
Aw shucks!!

You're making a virtue out of your carelessness. That's what it was. Hoisting yourself onto the other end of the see-saw with the three groups you mention is not the sort of sophistry that can get past my Auntie Nellie's feet never mind mine.

The post I referred to, with 6 bad errors in one line, lowers the tone of the forum and the site and makes a science thread look completely ridiculous. And it's a lot worse than that in a discussion about the education of 50 million kids and those coming up behind them a few of whom might be being made as you read this post.

reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 01:01 pm
@spendius,
Spendius I do not mind speaking of the evolution of psychology and ethics but I do not see where you find a interest in it even though I might of had hope that you Would!

Maybe we should stick to molecular biology instead of ethical evolution?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 03:01 pm
@reasoning logic,
We have to. There are no ethics in evolution. Not even any talk of them.

With molecular biology some interesting evolutionary ideas come rushing to the surface but the most interesting ones are not suitable for schoolchildren. Or most of their parents.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 03:12 pm
@spendius,
Ethics isn't evolution; it's a man-made concept. It's based on the idea of right and wrong, but cultures differ, and they establish what they deem is necessary for their culture to work.

A culture built on a monarchy system of government differs from the civilian developed one. Their "right and wrong" depends on what they believe to be their best form of governance. Even within any culture, it can change from a kingdom to a democratic republic. Those are influenced in many ways.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 03:20 pm
@spendius,
Yes I do think you are correct there is no talk at all about Evolutionary ethics in the bible but is this not the case with all other fields of science?

We do have to look outside of the bible if we are going to advance in any field of science or maybe I have it backwards! Oh well.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 06:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
There were certain attempts to write science into the Bible, unfortunately it is now 3000 yr old science . The ban on eating pigs was a good idea, given the nature of wild pigs in a dry country . Also hygiene laws, the nature of creation, were all rather good science in their day . They were just never amended .
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 07:07 pm
@Ionus,
Very well said in my opinion Ionus!
What do you think about this!
Could this be the new sermon on the mount?

http://www.youtube.com/user/JonathanToth#p/u/9/EgE89zLAxoU
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 09:04 am
LOUISIANA UPDATE
Quote:
For Kopplins, lobbying in state Capitol will be a family affair
(Michelle Krupa, New Orleans Times-Picayune, February 26, 2011)

Andy Kopplin, Mayor Mitch Landrieu's chief administrative officer, probably won't be the only member of his family pressing a case in Baton Rouge this spring.

While the mayor's right-hand man likely will trek up Interstate 10 to lobby the Legislature on city matters, his son, Baton Rouge Magnet High School senior Zack Kopplin, plans to push for the repeal of the Louisiana Science Education Act, a 2008 law that governs how local school systems can introduce supplemental materials into science lessons on topics such as evolutionary biology, global warming and cloning.

State Sen. Karen Carter Peterson of New Orleans has said she will sponsor the repeal legislation.

Though the act doesn't mention creationism or "intelligent design," wrangling since the bill's introduction has revolved around those topics. Livingston Parish School Board members have cited the law in their push to mandate that creationism be part of the science curriculum.

In testimony in December before the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education committee considering adoption of new high school biology textbooks, the younger Kopplin went up against leaders of the Louisiana Family Forum, who argued that the proposed texts were too accepting of the theory of evolution.

Kopplin, one of several advocates, testified that up-to-date biology texts are crucial to preparing Louisiana students to compete in a global economy.

While there are plenty of jobs for biologists, he said, "there are zero creationist jobs. Zero."

The panel recommended adoption of the texts.

Asked about his son's political initiative, Kopplin called his eldest child "smart, courageous and relentless."

"Every 17-year-old, you know, they are quite independent thinkers," he said. "I'm extraordinarily proud of him. He's a strong-willed young man, and I'm proud of him."

The elder Kopplin also has served as chief of staff to two Louisiana governors and as executive director of the Louisiana Recovery Authority. As for whether father and son might cross paths in the halls of the Capitol this spring, "I suspect you'll see him there," Andy Kopplin said.
 

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