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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:02 am
@High Seas,

Quote:
Dolly the sheep


Do you know why the scientists called the sheep Dolly?
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:12 am
@McTag,
Even though that person was not a parturient, her rack could feed lots...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 09:14 am
@McTag,
Dickens have anything to do with it?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 10:09 am
OKLAHOMA UPDATE
Quote:
Oklahoma House panel votes down science bill
(BY MICHAEL MCNUTT, The Oklahoman, February 23, 2011)

A House committee rejected a measure Tuesday that critics said would allow creationism and intelligent design into public school classrooms.

Rep. Sally Kern, the author of House Bill 1551, said her measure would allow teachers the freedom to teach without fear of losing their jobs and to teach various scientific theories.

“We want to make sure all science is taught,” said Kern, R-Oklahoma City.

Rep. Fred Jordan, a member of the House of Representatives Common Education Committee, said he was concerned the measure was too confusing.

“This bill is running circles around itself, and it's going to make it harder and harder for teachers to know what to do in the classroom,” said Jordan, R-Jenks.

“We're opening the door for teachers to kind of say whatever they want to say, whether it's religious issues, creation, evolution,” he said. “I really feel like we're opening the door to where any and everything can come in.”

The Education Committee failed to pass HB 1551 out of committee. The measure failed, 7-9, but it is not a final action. Kern could ask the committee to bring it up again this session or next year.

Kern said several times the measure was not intended to bring religious beliefs, such as creationism, into the classroom. The bill states it was to protect the teaching of scientific information and shall not be construed to promote any religious or nonreligious doctrine.

“Religion belongs in a philosophy class or a religion class,” she said. “There's no protection in this bill for any kind of religious thought, any kind of religious thinking, any creationism.

“The curriculum is not going to change. This is not to hinder science.”

Kern said an e-mail campaign against her bill led to her measure's failure.

“Members were influenced by a lot of misrepresentation and outright lies that were put out,” she said after the meeting. “It does not hurt science; it helps science. ... It had nothing to do with creationism.”

David Grow, of Edmond, a retired zoologist with the Oklahoma City Zoo, told committee members passage of HB 1555 could allow “scientific literature written for popular consumption” to be brought into classrooms.

“What they're considering science is not recognized as science by the scientific community,” Grow said after the meeting. “And they will be introducing intelligent design ideas and criticisms of evolution based on unfactual claims about evolution. ... This isn't about science; this is anti-evolution.”
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:39 am
@wandeljw,
Good for Mr. Grow, and good for the Oklahoma House. By and large, it seems that good sense and good science prevail, despite occasional anomolies such as one sees in Texas or Louisiana.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 11:57 am
@Setanta,
The arguments used by opponents won by 9-7 only and are fully exposed. They have no more to say than what they have said already. The arguments of the other side have hardly got started. The Texas senator's "controversial issues" which you all have repressed.
wandeljw
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 12:16 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
The Texas senator's "controversial issues" which you all have repressed.


Nothing has ever been repressed on this thread.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 02:59 pm
@wandeljw,
spendi also thinks we're trying to drive him off of a2k. Why he thinks that is beyond comprehension; there's no way "we" can drive him off. He must quit on his own.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:44 pm
@farmerman,
Dont you approve of people deciding their own destiny through a democratic vote ? If only the world would do what you want.....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 05:48 pm
@High Seas,
Quote:
Yes, I understand that, but if you can model at least one part of the process in quantum transition terms it seems to me that's a useful contribution.
Shocked Its a bloody brilliant contribution !!! It is a big step in the evolution of life from chemicals ! Excellent post. Go the the front of the class. I need more scientific posts like that in my life . At the science conventions I am the one throwing my underwear with my phone number on it onto the stage.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2011 07:42 pm
@McTag,
Of course, you would know - Dolly was a Scottish sheep. Yesterday in the "Today's Birthdays" section of the local newspaper hers was the second of 2 names, the first being George Washington. Btw, don't mind us, at this time of day with the regularity of tides this thread turns into a madhouse.
http://www.sciencecartoonsplus.com/gallery/chemistry/chem14.gif
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 06:49 am
@High Seas,
Bio modelling is a very active portion of the science. There are several MArkov and Chain series based models on determinative extensts of DNA sequences. (Sometimes the "start up from ground zero" isnt as accomplisheable as taking a known sequence and working forward or backsward.

There are several "evolution" modelsthat are more researchy than gaming.
Ive seen one paper where they calibrated a stochastic model based upon known steps in the geologic record. That appeared pretty convincing because we have plenty of information on the iterative steps in time.
Im too much of a "lets simplify this" to even consider something of a hybrid type model or quantum stuff.

Now, tell me how we got from Ammonia to simple amine compounds to DNA and youve got something. I expect that it will take someone like Venter who is always breaking rules and asking embarrasing questions that the academics always miss.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 07:42 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Nothing has ever been repressed on this thread.


I presume you are having us, or possibly yourself, on wande. The Senator's "controversial issues" have been left hanging as he needed to leave them. I know what they are. Social consequences have been repressed. Psychosomatic possibilities and emotional function are repressed. That evolution teaching is a wedge for atheism and the control of the curriculum by NCSE types is repressed.

I censor myself wande because I know how sensitive people are to a proper scientific discussion of matters relating to the overthrow of Christian teaching on sexual morality.

Both threads are woefully inadequate as an examination of the issues relating to the inculcation of evolution theory in the young. I am so used to points I raise being repressed that I no longer comment much about it. It's like the weather now.

There are some crucial issues I have not even raised due to their extreme sensitivity on the personal level.

Both threads are actually ridiculous from a grown up point of view.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 07:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
I do not think you lot are trying to drive me off A2K and I can't imagine how you might think you could. But I do know when I have been threatened with such attempts. Not by you ci. directly but insults are a "go away" strategy.

You have all got yourself into a fight thinking that you couldn't go wrong and it's a severe shock to your pride that maybe you can go wrong. You have only tried to sell your position negatively. The positive benefits of evolutionary ideas are completely off your radar. They are not off mine.

You're actually armchair revolutionaries. Cliche driven. When I said that the idea that only science should be taught in science classes is ridiculous, and gave my reasons, nobody even tried to contradict me. That's because they knew I was right but couldn't admit it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 08:09 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Bio modelling is a very active portion of the science. There are several MArkov and Chain series based models on determinative extensts of DNA sequences. (Sometimes the "start up from ground zero" isnt as accomplisheable as taking a known sequence and working forward or backsward.


Well-obviously--there's easy money and status in it. A few technical terms which nobody knows the real meaning of to dress it up and there you go.

If fm really is a "lets simplify this" kinda guy why does he use words like "stochastic " when he means a guess or something non-deterministic. I regularly see blokes using stochastic models based on known steps in the literary record to chat birds up in the pub. I've used them myself before I realised that other stochastic models led to me dropping myself in the ****. I think Dante had a special treat for psuedo intellectuals who use glitter words to snow everybody.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 08:23 am
@spendius,
What you don't know about Markov chains and stochastic processes in general fills libraries. Why not refrain from further comment to avoid ridicule?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 08:26 am
@farmerman,
Markov chains are random walks, aka Brownian motion. I haven't seen the models you mention but they're most probably mixed models of sorts if they include any explanatory variables in addition to pure Markov processes where all you need is the size of the step (granularity) and time elapsed.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 10:11 am
Quote:
Young earth creationists should have never left the ark
(By Andrew Shockey, Louisiana State University Daily Reveille, February 24, 2011)

Sid Galloway, speaker, biology teacher and former zookeeper, delivered a two-hour lecture Sunday on the merits of young earth creationism at the Chapel on the Campus.

While I was unable to attend Galloway's lecture, I have since investigated his website, including his 300-slide PowerPoint presentation. I'd like to offer counterarguments to a few of his outrageous claims.

Galloway asserts mutations cannot add any beneficial traits to genomes. A simple counterexample is lactose tolerance in humans. Humans naturally lose the ability to digest lactose after childhood. Around the time animal husbandry was being developed in Europe and other regions, a mutation allowing continued production of lactose digesting enzymes emerged in these populations.

This trait proved beneficial to survival and reproduction, so it spread throughout those populations, making them lactose tolerant. Meanwhile, cultures historically without cows or other milk bearing livestock such as those found in South America or South Africa have remained overwhelmingly lactose intolerant.

During his speech, Galloway claimed DNA is far too complex to have arisen by random chance. Luckily, the theory of evolution doesn't rely on random chance nearly as much as creationists like Galloway seem to believe.

Biologists do not believe DNA magically sprang from the primordial soup in its current form. They believe it evolved from a more rudimentary, self-replicating polypeptide chain through advantageous mutations culled by natural selection. How this original polypeptide formed is a more difficult question, but it is a question of abiogenesis, not evolution.

Galloway goes on to blame a buildup of deleterious genes for the relatively short life span of modern humans compared to biblical patriarchs like Adam and Noah. He then graphed the life spans of these men and fit them with an exponential decay curve.

Galloway's hypothesis not only completely ignores increases in human life expectancy in the last few hundred years, but also assumes the patriarchs actually lived for hundreds of years and all people in biblical times had similar lifespans to their contemporary patriarchs.

Even more damning, if we roughly extrapolate Galloway's model to the modern era, we find modern humans should only live about 35 years because of our overabundance of harmful mutations.

Eventually, Galloway transitions from simply being incorrect to downright offensive with his assertion, "At the core of Hitler's belief was evolution."

Hitler's views on evolution and human breeding revolved mostly around the concepts of microevolution, which has been observed for centuries and has even been accepted by creationists like Galloway. Hitler believed in God and some form of intelligent design and never directly attributed any of his views to the works of Charles Darwin. By contrast, in his work "Mein Kampf," Hitler proclaimed Martin Luther to be one of history's greatest reformers due in large part to his anti-Semitism.

Luther, arguably the father of Protestantism, penned "On the Jews and Their Lies" in 1543, in which he urged Christians to enslave the Jews and burn their homes, schools and synagogues to the ground. Luther believed it was every Christian's duty to take revenge on the Jews for the death of Jesus and wrote, "We are at fault in not slaying them."

I am not blaming Hitler or the Holocaust on Christianity. I am just trying to point out the difference between Darwin and a real inspiration for Hitler.

Finally, Galloway believes religion and evolution are incompatible. I agree his fundamentalist views are irreconcilable not only with evolution but also reality in general. However, I don't understand the desire to completely replace religion with scientific thought or why so many religious people feel the need to actively deny scientific explanations for observable phenomena.

We still don't know plenty about the universe, and much of this may defy any scientific explanation. So why can't religion stick to those questions rather than the ones science has already answered?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 10:29 am
@High Seas,
Ridicule doesn't bother me HS. Any riducule directed at me is felt by any viewers who agree with me and further polarises the two parties. The fact that there 5 or 6 of you lot ridiculing me doesn't alter the fact that 90% of Americans are on my side even if a lot of them don't know it yet. They will when the polarisation kicks in properly.

You're doing the middle-of-the-road stuff at this early stage. And there are few things more ridiculous than somebody in the middle of the road who doesn't know it. You're pretending it is not a momentous issue, despite all the in-your-face evidence that it is a momentous issue, and that it can be resolved over coffee with some exceedingly carefully chosen byways of critical thinking by a few really, really well-educated ladies and gentlemen of a certain age who are known for their calm and sweet reasonableness, limitless toleration and capacity to logically and rationally solve any problem that they have time to consider during the gaps in their other activities of a material, biological or psychological priority.

That you look ridiculous is hardly worth saying such is the obviousness of it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Feb, 2011 12:17 pm
@spendius,
By the simple expedient of selecting their company and reading and viewing material, anti-IDers are able to preen themselves that, despite a striking lack of charm which increases in inverse proportion to the distance they are away, their industrious efforts, such as they are, will undoubtedly win the day.

A good deal of their investment is gratuitous, most of it unfortunate and all of it well removed from evolutionism.

There is a world of reality in the grass roots which is outside of their narrow field of influence. Down there in the seething masses there is a growing demand for pre-marital sex, divorce, artificial birth control, adultery without blame, abortion without shame, male homosexuality, sex toys, operatives, counsellors and advertisers of sundry services, all fundamentalist misogyny imo, and very profitble to Media in lots of ways some of which are obvious and some not so.

It is the force of that demand which powers the move towards evolution being accepted. More by default than anything. As a means of clearing fuddy-duddy old Christianity out of the way to get at the monkey clearing I mean.

The irrelevant and indirect methods of the self-appointed anti-ID professionals and those who do it for "love of humanity" are characterised by a senile conceit of cunning as if it is believed that the nation may be manoeuvred into evolution (read socialism and atheism) without it knowing and anti-Iders will then be able to say, bray more like, " look what we did for you--you are evolutionists now--we chalked it on your back when you weren't looking."

It's called riding the trend when it is safe to do so. Having nothing to do with the trend. And claiming the credit for it.

Just as the elite Fabians tried to do for the growth of socialism when the credit was due to the working classes and their unions who had far more at stake than those theorists at their country house parties and weekends.

Anti-IDers are like the shamen who knew how to predict rain so they could cast their magic spells at the right time.

Bullshit city in other words. All dolled up in exclusive esoteric scientific argot to lend it authority in the eyes of those in awe of such enchantments. And the force from below is miles ahead of them and nothing taught in schools will hold it back until it hits the buffers in confusion.
0 Replies
 
 

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