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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 07:21 pm
@Ionus,
Are the Catholics teaching that science is the light, truth and the way, as long as it does not contradict what the bible says?
tenderfoot
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 08:17 pm
Iona
quoteYou think like an atheist. The only God that exists is the one you want to criticise. Did it occur to your impoverished brain that the problem is not God it is people ? How many atheists believe in sex with aliens ? Or bigfoot ? Or taking drugs and ******* whatever comes within arms reach ? How many atheists commit murder and rape compared to church goers ? How many atheists believe science is the God that has all the answers, we only have to wait several billion years and hope we find out before the planet burns. How many atheists want a funeral ceremony ? Shouldnt we just recycle atheists ? Shouldnt we scientifically abandon the old as being beyond economic repair ? Hows that sound dickhead ][/quote]

So impressed that you have such deep understanding of atheists.... So, you have the only god that exists , try telling that to a Muslim . How many atheists believe in sex with aliens ?????? Not as many as Christions that have sex with chickens, I'd surmise. How many atheists believe science is a God ???... About the same amount as Christians that believe there is no god. How many atheists want a funeral ceremony????.... The one's in a church I would say nil, the one's in private Ceremony same as the average of all kinds, religious or not. I know a lot of atheists and they try to recycle with children and allow them to chose if the want a god or not. I have 3 sons with 7 grandchildren none chose to have a god and none are even able to understand why there has to be a god , they have very many friends who think the same.
I'm old and beyond economic repair..whatever that means ... At the moment have a pace maker that's just been replaced ( had old one 10 years ) at no time have I ever expected a god to invent one same as you wouldn't if you were ever in the same position .... That's when you think like a atheist. DICKHEAD
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 08:19 pm
@reasoning logic,
In fact for all the religious foolishness which one might ascribe to the Roman Catholic church, that church does not dispute evolutionary theory.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 09:23 pm
@spendius,
But your argument is silly spendi since no one has proposed teaching only evolution while not teaching literature, drama, music and all the other arts.

Quote:

It's really a question of whether the moods created by Christianity are beneficial to society compared to those of non-Christian moods or atheist ones.
So your argument is we shouldn't teach evolution because religion is part of human evolution? It rather defeats the purpose of denying evolution, doesn't it?
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 12:02 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Are the Catholics teaching that science is the light, truth and the way, as long as it does not contradict what the bible says?
No. They are teaching that the Bible has truth, which is different from facts. There are learning points in the Bible and the greatest emphasis by a long way should be placed on the New Testament rather then the Old which is the part atheists love to attack.

Science is taught as the way of the physical reality, which in general should not be treated with reverence. All of physical reality is temporary.

God is responsible for everything. This does not mean a magic wand and instant creation. It means a process of evolution. After all, if time means nothing to you, what do you care if creation takes time ? The essential ingredients to creation is that humans have a soul, animals dont.

The Old testament is regarded as an explanation to a primitive people. Why would God explain the scientific principles of evolution to a people who didnt need it and wouldnt understand it. Doctors do the same thing with their patients.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 12:12 am
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
you have the only god that exists
As an agnostic I find that hard to believe. Are you sure I have a God ? Do you know which one ?
Quote:
How many atheists believe in sex with aliens ?????? Not as many as Christions that have sex with chickens, I'd surmise.
The rat bags that believe in all manner of whacko stupidities are atheists. Accept that and get over it.
Quote:
I know a lot of atheists
You know a lot of people who can prove there is no God ? Tell me the proof....
Quote:
I'm old and beyond economic repair..whatever that means ... At the moment have a pace maker that's just been replaced ( had old one 10 years )
Now why would an atheist want all those resources spent on the old...dont you believe in evolution and letting nature take its course ? Are you trying to go against evolution ? Your time has passed. Accept death and move on.
Quote:
a pace maker that's just been replaced ( had old one 10 years ) at no time have I ever expected a god to invent one same
But you greatfully took the heart from a God that invented one.....where is your scientific heart ? DICKHEAD
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 04:58 am
Vlad Nabokovs theory about the Evolution of the Polyommatus Blue[ butterflies , as we heard, has been tested and found to be correct. The facsinating thing is that the effect and interrelation of the climate, the environment and the dispersion paths of these crritters has come home to show how the complex web of adaptation actually works . I suspect that Nabokovs "blues" will bcome an important teaching aid in ecology and PAleoecology of the period from the Miocene to present. Heres an abstract about this interrelation.

Quote:
Phylogeny and palaeoecology of Polyommatus blue butterflies show Beringia was a climate-regulated gateway to the New World
Roger Vila1,2, Charles D. Bell3, Richard Macniven1,4, Benjamin Goldman-Huertas1,5, Richard H. Ree6, Charles R. Marshall1,7, Zsolt Bálint8, Kurt Johnson9, Dubi Benyamini10 and Naomi E. Pierce1,*
+ Author Affiliations

Abstract
Transcontinental dispersals by organisms usually represent improbable events that constitute a major challenge for biogeographers. By integrating molecular phylogeny, historical biogeography and palaeoecology, we test a bold hypothesis proposed by Vladimir Nabokov regarding the origin of Neotropical Polyommatus blue butterflies, and show that Beringia has served as a biological corridor for the dispersal of these insects from Asia into the New World. We present a novel method to estimate ancestral temperature tolerances using distribution range limits of extant organisms, and find that climatic conditions in Beringia acted as a decisive filter in determining which taxa crossed into the New World during five separate invasions over the past 11 Myr. Our results reveal a marked effect of the Miocene–Pleistocene global cooling, and demonstrate that palaeoclimatic conditions left a strong signal on the ecology of present-day taxa in the New World. The phylogenetic conservatism in thermal tolerances that we have identified may permit the reconstruction of the palaeoecology of ancestral organisms, especially mobile taxa that can easily escape from hostile environments rather than adapt to them.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:35 am
@parados,
Quote:
But your argument is silly spendi since no one has proposed teaching only evolution while not teaching literature, drama, music and all the other arts.


I find that silly. The teaching of the arts will be conditioned by the teaching of evolution. In fact that is already the case. Teaching the arts is saying nothing about how they are taught. Do you think a Christian school would teach the same books in English Literature as an atheist school?

Quote:
So your argument is we shouldn't teach evolution because religion is part of human evolution? It rather defeats the purpose of denying evolution, doesn't it?


I'm saying we shouldn't teach evolution to schoolkids until we have worked out the implications of doing so. We do that for everything else we teach and not only in schools. Why do you want to make an exception for evolution?

And I'm not denying evolution. I'm saying that continually discussing the simplicities of evolution theory without reference to its implications is jejune. Are you shy of discussing the implications?

I'm arguing that the promotion of teaching evolution in schools has a hidden agenda which has nothing to do with science. It is anti-science.

You haven't answered the post. You're back at square one.

Do you deny that "mood" can affect metabolism and cell function? And mating opportunities? And, though possibly a bit far fetched , the choice of sperm by the egg. Do you deny that religion creates moods?

What does the expression "love child" mean in literature? Or "foundling"?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 04:24 pm
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
Creationist Group Backs Out in Texas
(Texas Freedom Network, TFN Insider Blog, January 31, 2011)

The Foundation for Thought and Ethics, a prominent creationist group, has reversed a stated intention to submit instructional materials this year for use in Texas science classrooms. That decision, publicized on FTE’s website, is very good news for supporters of sound science education and students in Texas public schools.

On the other hand, it almost certainly is a huge disappointment for evolution deniers on the Texas State Board of Education. In 2009 those state board members succeeded in winning the adoption of controversial new science curriculum standards. They hoped the new standards would open the door to creationist arguments against evolution in classrooms across Texas.

As TFN Insider reported earlier this month, the Texas-based FTE was included on a list of vendors made public by the Texas Education Agency on January 20. Those vendors had indicated last fall that they intended to submit instructional materials covering the new science curriculum standards. The state board is scheduled in April to choose which of those materials will go on an approved list. Texas public schools could then use state dollars — if the Legislature makes such funding available — to purchase those approved materials for use in science classrooms beginning in the 2011-12 school year.

FTE is publisher of the “intelligent design”/creationism book Of Pandas and People. That book was at the center of a key Pennsylvania court case in 2005, Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School Board. In that case a federal judge ruled that “intelligent design” is a religious concept thinly disguised as science. Teaching such a concept, the court ruled, would represent an unconstitutional promotion of religion in public schools. The folks at FTE complained that the court’s decision would make Of Pandas and People and other “intelligent design” propaganda “radioative” and unmarketable in public schools.

Of course, they were right. But after the Texas state board approved the creationist-friendly science standards in 2009, perhaps the folks at FTE thought they had another chance to promote their junk science in public schools. Now, however, they apparently have realized that another major defeat — before the Texas board or in the courts — would simply compound their Dover disaster.

Still, other dangers remain for science education in Texas. Anti-evolution groups and state board members are likely to pressure legitimate publishers and other vendors to water down instruction on evolution in the materials they submit for board approval. The Texas Freedom Network helped build a broad coalition of pro-science education groups and activists that successfully blocked such efforts when the state board approved new biology textbooks for Texas schools in 2003. TFN will again work with scientists, other scholars and educators to help ensure that all materials publishers submit for board approval this March actually teach the well-established facts about evolution, not anti-science propaganda.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:26 pm
@Setanta,
Yes I was very surprised to learn that! Someone else said the same thing a few months ago and I researched it and I was able to find a little info that suggested the same.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:51 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I'm saying we shouldn't teach evolution to schoolkids until we have worked out the implications of doing so. We do that for everything else we teach and not only in schools. Why do you want to make an exception for evolution?

So you are saying that we know the implications of sex education before it is taught?
The implications of Shakespeare before his work is taught? The implications of chemistry?

Quote:
Are you shy of discussing the implications?
The implications of what? You somehow think that teaching evolution means people won't believe in God or become immoral. I would say that's an implication of your inability to think but not of how evolution destroys kids.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:54 pm
@farmerman,
Really fm!!

Your post about the Polyommatus Blue and how its dispersion paths, or alleged dispersion paths, in the Beringia, which I must confess I have never heard of before, are teaching us all about how the complex web of adaptation works and the rest of the guff about infestations of foreign species getting established, as these important matters relate to the teaching of evolution in all the schools, is not far short of mediating upon colours, playing interesting discords on a one-stringed instrument, muttering invocations and trance-like intonements which instensify ordinary twaddlings and produce, in this reader a least, a sort of nerve distressing crooning not much disimilar from that produced by an idiotic banshee on kinnikinnik.

How's that for a run on sentence?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:55 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Do you deny that "mood" can affect metabolism and cell function? And mating opportunities? And, though possibly a bit far fetched , the choice of sperm by the egg. Do you deny that religion creates moods?
What does that have to do with anything? Alcohol affects moods and is more likely to lead to a love child than religion is. Evolution doesn't deny religion any more than religion denies evolution. They are not mutually exclusive. I think you haven't read Shaw's preface based on your argument so far. Evolution was understood before Christianity was founded according to Shaw.


Quote:

What does the expression "love child" mean in literature? Or "foundling"?
Because I studied evolution didn't prevent me from knowing what those words meant in literature or in life. Not is it an impediment to anyone else that I can think of.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 05:56 pm
@reasoning logic,
Did you not know that rl? Sheesh!!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 06:13 pm
@parados,
Het parados--I never said anything about "destroying kids". Kids are indestructible. Evolution can't touch them but 8 grades exposed to the necessary intellectual environment required for teaching it is possibly a danger to some of them.

I know the implications of sex education. For sure. Removing the fun is the general idea presumably because the ones promoting the silly idea are not getting any.

You don't teach Shakespeare. You encourage people to read it. Shakespeare does the teaching.

On chemistry we do consider the implications of teaching about such things as making explosives from things in the hardware stores and the knowledge of the poisons some of the witches of the middle-ages were adept at distilling and administering.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 06:18 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Evolution doesn't deny religion any more than religion denies evolution. They are not mutually exclusive.
Damn !! I have been saying that for ages now and it shocks me that we agree....please dont let this happen again, it is very confusing.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 06:20 pm
@Ionus,
It's just a mantra Io. It avoids the main issue. A sort of fancy Ignore. Sort of.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 06:21 pm
@wandeljw,
prhaps there is intelligent life in the state of Texas
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 06:59 pm
@spendius,
Spendius I do not mind saying that it is a good thing that the catholic curch can find at times that the scientific method is the best that we have at this time and I commend them for that. I think that this is very important that they can see this.

Now if we can get them to study ethics useing the same method and not methods that are 3000 years old then we might evolve moraly! Who knows, "we may see, hear and walk with out being crippled as if we were spiritualy dead.

I see the bible as a very old ethics book where our ancestors knew no beter at the time. Do not get me wrong as there can be found very good ethics in it but not all of it!
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Feb, 2011 08:00 pm
A bibical ethic.
Judges 19:22-29
As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, base fellows, beset the house round about, beating on the door; and they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him." And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brethren, do not act so wickedly; seeing that this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing. Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them; and they knew her, and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go. And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, till it was light. And her master rose up in the morning, and when he opened the doors of the house and went out to go on his way, behold, there was his concubine lying at the door of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, "Get up, let us be going." But there was no answer. Then he put her upon the ass; and the man rose up and went away to his home. And when he entered his house, he took a knife, and laying hold of his concubine, he divided her, limb by limb, into twelve pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of Israel.

 

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