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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 01:32 pm
@spendius,
What exactly do you want people to take on about Shaw's preface spendi? That Darwin's conclusions are so obvious that they become boring?

I don't think anyone here has ever argued that we should be so obsessed with what is in front of us that we shouldn't look up at the stars now and again to dream. But you want us to forget what is in front of us and only concentrate on the stars it seems.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 02:03 pm
@parados,
If you keep looking at the stars, you'll end up with neck pain. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 03:30 pm
@parados,
Odd you should ask me a question like that after a few hundred of wande's newspaper cuttings all saying more or less the same thing. Your subjective sensitivities seem to be on display to me.

The point is not so much that Darwin's work is so simple and obvious, which he couldn't help being such a silly old randy goat, but rather that people on here are posturing as scientific on the strength of having a tenuous grasp on what Darwin did, easy as that is, and offering advice and making unmannerly demands of elected people regarding how the nation's kids should be taught on the selfish basis of needing to justify some infractions of the Christian teaching on sexual morality they have engaged in at some time or other and which they are unable to justify in any other way except by trying to get the rest of us to put them on Ignore. It is precisely what is in front of us, the teaching of the next generations, that I am concerned with here. I can look at the stars when I want to.

Also, Shaw is a novelty to the thread and obviously of some interest because there have been 95 views of it since I posted the quotes and I can't see that having been caused by your or ci's post.

I'm betting that not one of my opponents have read the Shaw preface I posted the other day, and it's very relevant to them, because they are unable to. Which automatically disqualifies them from preaching vituperatively about education at those a democratic system has elected to administer it. They are barely literate.

Have you taken it on? It's only two hours or so to a fairly careful reader and a mighty lesson. Mighty lessons don't often come so cheap. But it is a bit out of date. It says very little about mood having an effect on metabolism and cell function, and nothing about it having an effect on reproductive selection procedures at both the macro and micro levels, so to say. Religion does create "moods". As atheism does. In religious ecstasy, even those not going all the way, moods are exaggerated, learned and remembered.

It's really a question of whether the moods created by Christianity are beneficial to society compared to those of non-Christian moods or atheist ones. It is irrelevant to the story of the Flood that the logistics were impossible. The mood it creates of the intrepid survivor battling the forces of nature and getting through creates a mood in people and especially young ones. However nutty old Noah was you can't help admiring him.

The simple and obvious fact that the logistics of the Ark are impossible, a fact equally obvious to the writer of the story, points the reader at the real point. There was no question of Noah not making land for that very reason.

The opposition of the population which would have to sweat to bring the project together, it's a hot climate before the monsoons, and sawing wood was not as easy as when fm saws it, nor was rounding up a male and female mosquito with certainty, must have been a lot more fierce than anything these anti-IDers can offer. Can you imagine that opposition when all Noah had was that it was going to rain. Even Mubarak has more going for him than that.

When the kid comes to smile, as it matures, at the logistics it doesn't mean it has forgotten the mood the Noah story creates. An admiration of certain qualities. Which eventually led to a trial Ark blasting into space from the Cape. That mood, soft-wired into the Christian psyche. The Right Stuff.

Stretching this nonsense a bit tighter one might say that the madman with authority, fortitude, vision and faith is what we look to when in a fix we haven't seen coming. Psychologists are creating hierarchies on the matter by spinning it out and it's in a few verses of the Bible. But speed reading the story, or hearing it a millionth hand, and declaring it "a load of crap", not an original phrase, and disdaining to stop and say--"hang on a minute--this is the most famous book in the world which every great artist has studied and borrowed from. Who am I to sit here in my little corner making snap judgements on it?"

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 03:53 pm
@spendius,
If you are going to speak about ethics should we also include how we are evolving at such a slow pace morally?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-0D3Gm5bM
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:18 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
Retired Science Teacher Seeks to Bar Evolution from Classrooms
(Elena Garcia, Christian Post, January 30, 2011)

"I think it will be taken seriously aside from the fact that I know some science," he said.


Does every crackpot deserve his day in court? This guy is obviously making up stuff as he goes just for some public attention. At what point does the tax-paying public have enough of frivolous cases which waste the court's time? Maybe courts should have a "filing" fee for any cases which are summarily dismissed.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:24 pm
@parados,
I think you have plagiarised Oscar Wilde "all of us live in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars".
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:28 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
If you are going to speak about ethics should we also include how we are evolving at such a slow pace morally?
Animals have morals. If morals are not needed they will not evolve. Some humans believe correct behaviour comes from God. Of course if your are an atheist, then you can **** anything anytime anywhere like dogs on a street corner. If it feels good, do it. Rape, murder...doesnt matter......evolution will weed out the incorrect thinking.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:43 pm
@Ionus,
Well the sad truth is, "that I think you are correct But I do think that as our environment [education] changes so shall most of us, because of the animals that we are.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:53 pm
@reasoning logic,
We dont have to evolve at all. Crocodillians have survived millions of years by requiring a puddle and animals that need to drink. A very broad requirement for an environment or a very common environment means slow evolution. Humans can live anywhere. People live in -60 C temps with dead animal tents and a animal fat candle. This produces a very comfortable warmth. I dont know if our environment will change us, I think the evidence is we will change the environment.

The greatest challenge we face is allowing the weak to survive. THAT will be our greatest evolutionary pressure IMO.
tenderfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:56 pm
IONUS.
I thought I would correct some of you statments so they could be more easily understod by drop dead Christians.

Christian animals have morals. If morals are not needed they will not evolve. Some Christian humans believe correct Behaviour comes from their particular God. Of course if your are an believer in the bible especially the old testament, whee your particula godess - god says when he feels like it, that you can **** anything anytime anywhere like dogs on a street corner. Or kill everybody in a city accept the females of your choice ,to rape and enslaveI, If it feels good, do it. Rape, murder...doesn't matter......evolution will weed out the incorrect thinking. As us special Christians know... Hows that sound D_head
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 05:58 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
If you are going to speak about ethics should we also include how we are evolving at such a slow pace morally?


I don't think we are. In evolutionary terms we are greased lightning. You just think your own time on this earth is all that matters. I can see the point but it doesn't run to conclusions like that.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:00 pm
@Ionus,
Our environment will change us and we will change the environment would be my opinion.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:03 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Maybe courts should have a "filing" fee for any cases which are summarily dismissed.


ros means that he wants only the well-to-do to be able to go to court. Just in cases where he disagrees with the litigant I mean.

Some leftie he is eh? Some democrat?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:07 pm
@tenderfoot,
You think like an atheist. The only God that exists is the one you want to criticise. Did it occur to your impoverished brain that the problem is not God it is people ? How many atheists believe in sex with aliens ? Or bigfoot ? Or taking drugs and ******* whatever comes within arms reach ? How many atheists commit murder and rape compared to church goers ? How many atheists believe science is the God that has all the answers, we only have to wait several billion years and hope we find out before the planet burns. How many atheists want a funeral ceremony ? Shouldnt we just recycle atheists ? Shouldnt we scientifically abandon the old as being beyond economic repair ? Hows that sound dickhead
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:08 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Our environment will change us and we will change the environment would be my opinion.
Could you explain more ?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:10 pm
@tenderfoot,
Quote:
Some Christian humans believe correct Behaviour comes from their particular God.


Yes--and some thologians believe that first you identify correct behaviour and then you give it the authority of a God by various means. To help make it stick right across society and not just in the offices of the NCSE.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:14 pm
@reasoning logic,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXWnFeG5EyA&feature=fvwrel
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
Do you really agree that the application of the scientific method will solve, poverty, war, crime etc as claimed in the video ? That is a long standing claim made by religion. If people would only do what God instructs, then the world will be paradise. Now we have "scientists" claiming they have the answer....
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 06:58 pm
@Ionus,
I think that you are close but science loves it when it is proven wrong, "because the understanding of what we were wrong about brings forth a beter understanding of reality. Does religion have any room for advancement or do they adhere to a 2,000++year old philosophy?

Science can be wrong! and it is ok with that. As a matter of fact how else would we advance?

Religion can not be wrong, "because god says that it so, " there for it is so.


Ps. There is no utopia but there is better than what we have!
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Jan, 2011 07:13 pm
@reasoning logic,
Most religions live quite happily with science. Catholicism is now out of the way of science, and even classical encounters are beaten up by the science lobby. Galileo was not under house arrest for saying the earth orbits the sun. He was under house arrest for being an arrogant pig and calling the Pope names.

There is a lot of science inherent to religion. Though they are not strict sciences, psychology, history, neurology, theology and many others are studying religion. Always separate God and religion. The two are quite different.

What was before the Big Bang ? Was it a creation event ? Is it possible that when people die they move totally to another dimension they now only partially inhabit ?

Can science prove there is not a species of intelligent mattresses living in a swamp somewhere in an infinite universe ? Or multi-verse ?
 

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