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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 10:15 am
Quote:
Creationist tourism
(Editorial, Louisville Courier-Journal, December 2, 2010)

Gov. Steve Beshear needs a vacation. Indeed, he should have taken it this week.

Other than extreme fatigue, how else can one explain his embrace of a project to build a creationism theme park in Northern Kentucky (near the Creation Museum) and the apparent willingness of his administration to offer tourism-development tax incentives to developers of the park?

Even if technically legal (in that the law allowing the tax breaks doesn't discriminate against other religious or anti-religious views), a state role in a private facility that would be built by a group called Answers in Genesis and espouses a fundamentalist view resting on biblical inerrancy indirectly promotes a religious dogma. That should never be the role of government.

Moreover, in a state that already suffers from low educational attainment in science, one of the last things Kentucky officials should encourage, even if only implicitly, is for students and young people to regard creationism as scientifically valid. Creationism is a nonsensical notion that the Earth is less than 6,000 years old. No serious scientist upholds that view, and sophisticated analysis of the Earth's minerals and meteorite deposits generally lead to an estimate that the planet is about 4.5 billion years old. Furthermore, creationism teaches that the Earth (including humans) was created in six days, thus rejecting the well-established science of evolution.

But if the Beshear administration is determined that Kentucky should cash in on its stereotypes — and wants to fight Indiana to snare the theme park — why stop with creationism? How about a Flat-Earth Museum? Or one devoted to the notion that the sun revolves around the Earth? Why not a museum to celebrate the history and pageantry of methamphetamines and Oxycontin? Surely a spot can be found for an Obesity Museum (with a snack bar).

And while we're at it, let's redo the state's slogan. Let's try: Kentucky — Unbridled Laughingstock.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 11:44 am
Hehehehehehehehehe . . .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 12:11 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
why stop with creationism? How about a Flat-Earth Museum? Or one devoted to the notion that the sun revolves around the Earth? Why not a museum to celebrate the history and pageantry of methamphetamines and Oxycontin? Surely a spot can be found for an Obesity Museum (with a snack bar).


Why not? It sounds good fun to me. It's what we want--more diversity. But with real bars. Evolution shows the validity of diversity. The fashion shows which turn mutton into lamb are popular. The graduation gigs where they turn numbskulls into geniuses are too. What about NFL games where big fatties become transformed into athletes.

Setanta doesn't know his arse from his earache on politics, economics, history, sociology and now, as we see, evolution. The project can always be cancelled if the Tea Party doesn't get in. Or put on hold until it does which it can't not do eventually when the hegemony of the lower-middle-class liberal runs into needing more funds to sustain itself than the GNP can provide and cannot lose an election.

Setanta was probably conditioned by all that anti-authoritarian bullshit of the sixties and hasn't worked out yet that its call for freedom has resulted in less freedom. In some respects much less. He hasn't worked out himself that the earth isn't flat or that it goes round the sun. They are not things his senses tell him. Authority is where he got it from. Experts.

Science has no diversity. It's stuck with immutable laws and all the ones of significance are old hat.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 06:16 pm
@wandeljw,
That's nothing - the December issue of Scientific American has an article by someone who claims to have a blood sample from a Tyrannosaurus Rex affectionately known as"Big Mike", who's been dead all these 67 million years. Could we all have been wrong when we laughed with Gunga?!
http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/blood-from-stone_1.jpg
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=blood-from-stone
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 08:42 pm
@High Seas,
Nobody Laughs "with " gunga. The "soft tissue" found in several T Rex (patella type joint areas) and a few duckbills) arent really soft tissue. They are polymerized dessicated tissue that has been preserved inside mineralized pockets in the skeletal mass of these dinosaurs.
While they have been treated with HF and several other pliability restoriing chemicals, they are still a mineralized substance like keratin in coal layesr or amber.
The Creationists try to give a wrong headed conclusion on this and, if you only knew what the folks at NC State went through to get the first samples , you would appreciate how ancient polymerized tissue is preserved and maintained. The "Blood" was actually the remains of the HAem and several cell walls that were all sort of smooshed out of hape but still retained. SO , in effect, they actually did find fossil "soft tissue and blood".
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 09:02 pm
@farmerman,
Didnt you and I have a tiff over the possibility of dinosaur DNA ? Where you took the negative and said it was basically impossible....
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:25 am
@Ionus,
YEp, it IS impossible. No Dino DNA found as of yet, nowhere. Never will happen. The proteins found in the Thompson specimen were barely distinguisheable and were NOT anywhere near DNA or (even osteocalcin, which is a breakdown product )
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 05:45 am
@farmerman,
However, having said that about dinosaur DNA, I recall a bunch of workers who reported fragments of bacteruial DNA from liquid inclusions in a salt mine in Michigan. The bacteria (Halobacterer-sp") DNA chunks were found preserved in SAlina basin salt . The ge of this is about 350 MILLION YEARS. SO, under extreme preservation, it is apparently possible to preserve segments of a genome and its sorta like the DNA that was used inJurassic PArk, except this was found in teeny salt water bubbles in the salt layers itself.

The oldest DNA from a relatively undegraded sediment is some plant material about 800K years old. These were in deposits from Greenland and were ice preserved plant material that corresponds to the oldest ages measured in the Greenland Ice CAp.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 07:46 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
They are polymerized dessicated tissue that has been preserved inside mineralized pockets in the skeletal mass of these dinosaurs.


I have no doubt that "stuff" that has been preserved inside mineralized pockets in the skeletal mass of dinosaurs is known in the trade as polymerized dessicated tissue.

I can feel my mind expanding.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 10:26 am
To me, this is an interesting essay about curbing the application of evolutionary theory to social science.

Quote:
Sex, evolution, and amorality
(BY SHAY O'REILLY | University of Iowa Student Newspaper | December 03, 2010)

It's 2010 and we're living in the future.

Our scientific understanding of evolution and psychology has advanced to the point that researchers, using carefully documented methods, can determine that women don't call their fathers while they're ovulating as an inherent protection against inbreeding. Men and women shop differently because of sex roles from hunter-gatherer days, when women gathered plants and men hunted animals (which explains frustrating mall adventures the world over). And, yes, men are meant to be promiscuous because of evolution and genetic selection.

If you thought that was just a throwaway joke on "30 Rock," you're in for a treat: It's what some evolutionary psychologists, notably including London School of Economics researcher Satoshi Kanazawa, actually endorse given their knowledge of the data.

These hypotheses, however, prove worrying — not because evolutionary biology is inadequate in explaining human behavior, although concerns about socialization are not misplaced; rather, there is a distressing tendency among scientists, students, and the general public to misinterpret descriptive findings as prescriptive.

While we're still waiting on our hover cars and cloned organ donors, a thousand science-fiction writers got this right: Science and scientific processes are no more of a moral force than sledgehammers, despite the human tendency to apply facts in a normativefashion.

This is true for everything from evolution to nuclear physics to gravity. Anything dropped from a tall building will accelerate at a rate of 9.8 m/s2, but falling is not necessarily valuable.

"There is a misconception of directionality/improvement that isn't supported by the science," University of Iowa biology Assistant Professor Andrew Forbes wrote in an e-mail. Forbes is slated to teach Evolution & Ecology next semester. "I think it just stems from misinformation about what the actual definition of 'biological evolution' is."

The actual definition, as one of my former professors at Bennington College drilled into me: There is variation in the population. By chance, certain organisms have a trait. There is differential reproduction between organisms with that trait and those without. If the trait is genetic, it becomes more prevalent.

To ascribe a moral value to the evolutionary process is to introduce a level of teleology — that is, to say it is directed toward a final cause. The truth is, "reproductive fitness" has no bearing on right or wrong or on the "improvement" of a species.

It is reproductively favorable for a female animal whose male mate dies to kill and eat the offspring of that male. This is biologically advantageous because she could then more easily attract a new mate, and her future children will be more likely to survive. That is not something, dare I say, that we would find acceptable in human populations.

The strict gender roles laid out by evolutionary psychologists such as Kanazawa are no more morally righteous. Women may be less likely to contact their fathers during ovulation, but that does not mean that they should consciously avoid it.

Simply put, we are not headed toward some ultimate evolutionary destiny. Selection pressures make a species more accustomed to dealing with that individual pressure, not an overall existence.

Evolutionary psychology has merit when it helps us understand some instinctive human actions. But we must take care not to interpret descriptive findings as normative; we must not cage ourselves within a prison of biological imperative. There is a difference between how the world was and how it should be.

Human consciousness demands that we emphasize the latter.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 11:57 am
@wandeljw,
Take it easy wande. You will be upsetting the members of your head-in-the-sand gang of anti-IDers introducing explosive material of that nature into this thread.

I have been conducting the case against evolution teaching to adolescents from precisely the position sketchily suggested in your quote and you are well aware of what has been asserted about me for doing so.

I have told you a good few times, and from the very beginning, that science is a mere tool and been told I was drunk and here you are with --"Science and scientific processes are no more of a moral force than sledgehammers." Science has no view on anything except science.

You will be amazed what the body of thought which the position you expose to view looks like. You are in bed with people who have the whole subject on Ignore. They only read what confirms their set-in-stone opinions. Obviously that is most unscientific. It's running on the spot. A scientific mind searches out information that challenges not only what it thinks but also the manner in which it conducts its life. If anti-IDers get their way their unscientific attitudes, which have been comprehensively demonstrated on your threads, will be all the adolescents in grade schools will ever hear about and US science will go off a cliff. The US might well follow.

Mr Jindal, as a high flying academic specialising in the management of complex social systems, will be well aware of the mountain of literature on the matter you raise and those who have traduced his name are hiding away from it.

What about this from Prof. Stanley Cohen in his Visions of Social Control--

Quote:
Indeed, for many critics of this movement [ Behaviourism in social control], the cult of self implies a narcissistic denial of the importance of rules, morality and the existence of anything or anyone outside the self.


He is quoting from The Culture of Narcissism by Christopher Lasch. (New York: W.W. Norton, 1978.)

Prof. Cohen goes on--

Quote:
The comparison here is also with classical, pure Freudianism. The never ending quest for well-being*, psychic energy and true self is not an attempt to bring unconscious wishes to light and analyse the causes of repression. It is, rather, to dissolve the very machinery of repression, to put an end to all inner restraints, inhibitions and hang ups.


And guess who benefits from encouraging that nightmarish scenario? The media conglomerates from which you quote so often, the legal profession and those who think they can parley baby science into taking control of every bloody thing and untimately bringing society to its kness in economic meltdown and confusion. That's who. Your lovely coalition.

What has science to say about the woman who kills her children from some evolutionary instinct? It ought to praise her surely?

You do well to find the article "interesting". Take a peek inside the subject. Assuming you don't mind being gobsmacked.

* A long gone anti-IDer on here was a self-proclaimed expert in "well-being" counselling on campus.

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 12:45 pm
@farmerman,
How about this effort to reconstruct the code for one of the common ancestors of all mammals?
From: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=computer-program-reconstr
Quote:
Complete genetic information from more animals would be required to reconstruct the entire genome of the common ancestor, which was a small, furry nocturnal animal. Currently, nearly complete genomes are available for five mammals and Haussler predicts that about 20 would be required for an accurate complete reconstruction. "We will be able to trace the molecular evolution of our genome over the past 75 million years," he says. "It's a very exciting new way to think about our origins, a kind of DNA-based archaeology to understand how we came to be."


PS I added the bold because I finally realized why a couple of posters here are so very dead-set against evolution of mammals: might they look like that original ancestor? Well - twice a charming lady (first Lola, now Mame) travelled to England, offered to meet with Spendius, and got turned down Smile
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 01:01 pm
@Ionus,
Have vague recollection of some goop recovered from Big Mike's (see above) bones showing he was related to chickens, but it wasn't DNA:
Quote:
... in two papers in the new issue of Science, a team of researchers announced that a chemical analysis of the T. rex peptides suggests the king of the lizards is most similar to a present-day chicken. Although that is probably not the lineage one might have expected for this mighty and fearsome dinosaur...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=t-rex-protein-sequenced-similar-to-chicken

Btw, whoever captions the cartoons in that publication really has a sense of humor; this was titled "Prehistoric Poultry" Smile
http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/E6F3568A-E7F2-99DF-36675A19705E275A_1.gif
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 01:11 pm
@High Seas,
That's pretty cool. Are you assuming that the common ancestor was rat-like?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 01:22 pm
@Setanta,
How do I know? I'm waiting for the simulation code. I've heard it said the common ancestor was the size of a lemur, but that was speculative.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 03:15 pm
@High Seas,
"It's a very exciting new way to think about our salaries, reserved parking slots and executive bathroom keys, a kind of ego-tweet based archaeology to understand how we came to be."

Maybe you should wonder why those refined and delightful ladies you mention entertained a wish to meet with my person HS. I didn't turn them down at all. They simply didn't express the wish in a tempting enough manner. And I assumed, probably rationally enough, that their idea of meeting me was some distance from my idea of meeting them. I also prefer to admire them from a distance for obvious reasons. I imagine that people who meet with those they interact with in cyberspace are generally disappointed. And they both presumably proposed to have some bozo in tow which is the utterest ends of the earth very last thing I need.

I feel, too, that once having met with someone on A2K, exchanging Christmas cards, photographs, hugging and stuff, the quality of the debate suffers from having to be nice from there on.

Besides that I'm an old, shagged-out has-been, and I really have been, and, what is much worse, I am familiar with Tristram Shandy, Frank Harris's oeuvre, the Marquis de Sade, Rabelais and such like headbangers whose names it would be as bootless to list as to expect any identifications although I do tend to litter their names through my posts, what with hope springing eternal and all, in case they might be of some use to someone or other in taking a glimpse through the curtain the educational process has drawn across their sightlines in the service of marketing intelligence.

There are three others you haven't mentioned. No, correction, another one comes to mind, four. The fourth I've remembered wanted to bring a ladyfriend. I've a soft spot for all of them but, alas, I'm a busy man and a creature of habit as well. Have you read Proust on habits? How to refine the essentials and then concentrate on them. As Dylan says--"strengthen the things that remain." If I'm late in the pub they put the clock back.

PS. Lola called me a "silly man". That's not very charming is it? It told me that she might only be charming if one says and does the things she approves of and if you step outside of that you get a blast. What with me approving of the Pope you might see why I let such an idea as a meeting dribble away as piss does on a hot and dusty concrete hardstanding round the back of an industrial unit.

Anyway--have you any comments on my recent posts?

At least a "small, furry nocturnal animal" is an improvement on a well evolved microbe. Although it might depend on where the microbe had found lodg(e)ment.









0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 03:21 pm
@High Seas,
Your suggestion about the resemblance of certain members who participate in this thread and the common ancestor lead me to surmise it might be rat-like in appearance.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 03:54 pm
@Setanta,
I respectfully decline the invitation. Suffice to say that a rat-like appearance would be similar to a beautiful view after what I could cobble together.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 03:55 pm
a rat with a peculiar affinity for the Marquis deSade.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 04:11 pm
@MontereyJack,
You wouldn't know anything about that Jack. You only know what you have read about the man from sources somewhat untrustworthy. And a good job too. He pinned aetheists to the wall. Goodstyle.

But what a republican.

You probably think Swift's recipes for roasted babies were disgusting being so righteous as you are.

0 Replies
 
 

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