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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 04:41 am
@farmerman,
I would seriously worry about my critical thinking skills fm if I was out of bed at the time of day you are up and doing. It's 5.30 am where you are isn't it.

You're right about the SEA not being about science. It's about protecting kids from atheists.
Francis
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 05:56 am
@spendius,
Spendi wrote:
It's about protecting kids from atheists.

What about protecting kids from christian priests?
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 10:14 am
@Francis,
I'm wondering, since spendi brought up the subject of protecting kids from atheists. How many atheists gather children to teach them morals, then rape them?
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 10:17 am
@cicerone imposter,
Good point. They probably just rape them then murder them. How many rapists in a church ? How many Atheists in a gaol ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 10:19 am
@Francis,
Quote:
What about protecting kids from christian priests?
If we are to protect kids from all Christian Priests than I suggest we also protect them from all Frenchmen.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 10:45 am
@Ionus,
I knew they would jump on that Io. I put it in to see if their reflexes on the matter are still in good order. I meant the millions of kids and not the few unfortunate ones whose cases they have pored over in media stories. I'm talking about directions for society. They are talking about incidents as if they have anything to do with the matter of atheism institutionalised in a modern industrial nation's socialisation policies. Clutching at straws really.

No evil priests and their position collapses by their own argument.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 11:25 am
@spendius,
spendi, Just look at the outcome of all cultures with any religious belief; they have engaged in wars, rape, murder, and terrorism.

It doesn't matter whether it's isolated or looked at as a whole of humanity. If you're blind to all of the current and past history, you have learned nothing about human nature.
Francis
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 02:21 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
What about protecting kids from christian priests?
If we are to protect kids from all Christian Priests than I suggest we also protect them from all Frenchmen.

Or from the Australians, or from any other nationality but mainly from the damages caused by religion..


Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 02:24 pm
@spendius,
I knew too that you would come up with that easy discourse.

It matters not to me...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 02:32 pm
Gerald Manley Hopkins wrote-

Quote:
The study of physical science has, unless corrected in some way, an effect the very opposite of what one would suppose. One would think it might materialise people (no doubt it does make them or, rather I should say, they become materialists; but that is not the same thing: they do not believe in the matter more but in God less) ; but in fact they seem to end in conceiving only of a world of formulas, with its being properly speaking in thought, towards which the outer world acts as a sort of feeder, supplying examples for literary purposes. And they go so far as to think the rest of mankind are in the same state of mind as themselves.


When the feeding is continuous and through a teat of self-selected media sources which manifests a similar state of mind to the one already possessed, others being filtered out for being too dangerous to the obvious fragilities, the effect is ratcheted to the extent that those not sharing the state of mind become incomprehensible and thus only respondable to with invective before retiring behind a screen or slammed door to suck the teat more avidly.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 02:54 pm
@Francis,
Quote:
It matters not to me...


That it matters not to you Francois neither explains your presence on the thread nor answers the post you imagine you are responding to.

btw--I saw Play Time on Sky Arts today. Very funny up to the morning after sequence which I found a bit trite. A lot of ladies' legs. Not a pair of female trousers I spotted. Is Tati's prophetic vision coming true in Paris or has the warning been heeded and prevented it being?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 03:03 pm
@Francis,
One of our own well loved poets,Robert Frost, had similar thoughts but, in hs typical Yankee logic he didnt drop his religion due to scientific findings (unlike his frien Carl Burrell). He did , however, develop a new way of responding to all his original beliefs. Frosts own linewas"I dont care whether God made man out of mud but Im certain that it was "prepared" mud"(A line he copped from EMerson no doubt).

When I spread out my hand here today,
I catch no more than a ray
To feel of between thumb and fingers;
No lasting effect of it lingers.
There was one time and only the one
When dust really took in the sun;
And from that one intake of fire
All creatures still warmly suspire.
And if men have watched a long time
And never seen sun–smitten slime
Again come to life and crawl off,
We must not be too ready to scoff.
God once declared he was true
And then took the veil and withdrew,
And remember how final a hush
Then descended of old on the bush.
God once spoke to people by name.
The sun once imparted its flame.
One impulse persists as our breath;
The other persists as our faith

From "Sitting by a stream..." in BY A WEST RUNNING BROOK

Thhe only point in any of this (yours and mine) are that I often present The discourse between Burrell and Frost on Darwin as an initiation to my astudents that the argument xplicit in the "culture wars" has been exhaustively presented from pallette and pen since Darwins own work was published.

(Anyway, a Victorian Jesuit Poet is kinda like Broccolli ice cream, whats the point?)


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 03:12 pm
@farmerman,
Very nice fm.

Quote:
SOMETHING there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
"Stay where you are until our backs are turned!"
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of outdoor game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
He is all pine and I am apple-orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, "Good fences make good neighbors."
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
"Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That wants it down!" I could say "Elves" to him,
But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
He said it for himself. I see him there,
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father's saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors."


Mending Wall.

The wall between Church and State springs to mind.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 03:25 pm
@spendius,
Spendi wrote:
That it matters not to you Francois neither explains your presence on the thread nor answers the post you imagine you are responding to.

Again, making generalizations, Spendi, while I was addressing a specific point..

I'll not take umbrage..

Life goes in Paris as usual, meaning that people couldn't care less what Tati said.

Wait till it starts freezing and you'll see lots of women in trousers...
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 04:19 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
(A line he copped from EMerson no doubt).


Did he cop it from Emerson or didn't he? You're at your usual tricks with that "no doubt". Suggesting something to the reader that might not be true.

And here you go again--

Quote:
(Anyway, a Victorian Jesuit Poet is kinda like Broccolli ice cream, whats the point?)


"Kinda like". The world judges the poet and Robert Frost has been judged by the world. Your comparison is silly anyway. There would be a point to any sort of ice-cream to a hot and thirsty person.

Would you have people not believe in anything? Some say that people who don't believe in God will believe in anything. Doesn't a belief in God prevent people going off the rails with all sorts of wierd and wonderful beliefs.



0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 04:29 pm
@Francis,
Quote:
Again, making generalizations, Spendi, while I was addressing a specific point..


I saw no point addressed and it is not a generalisation to say that incidents are no guide to the way forward. A lot of kids have been killed, some burnt to death, in cars. They are all incidents and there are many more of them than the victims of evil priests and they were all far more traumatised. But it doesn't stop millions of people driving cars at high speeds.

I don't see what you mean by calling it a generalisation. Incidents only mean something to those they happen to. Bringing atheism into schools is not an incident. It's a policy.

On the TSA thread you are focussed on the incident of you being felt up rather than on the policy.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 04:34 pm
@spendius,
Oh, so, kids getting killed in auto accidents minimizes what priests do to kids. Where did you learn your ethics and logic?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 05:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I didn't say that at all ci. Of course it doesn't minimise it. It puts it in perspective and that all and makes some of us wonder why you keep going on and on about it like it's some sort of obsession you have to keep talking about such a subject.

Do you think we should still mine coal? There's a lot of incidents in that game. Most of them Chinese so I don't suppose they register on you seeing as Chinese miners are unsuitable for your ridiculous stance. You not being racist and all.

Quote:
Last year, some 2,630 Chinese miners were killed, according to official statistics, but independent labour groups say the true figure is likely to be much higher as many accidents are believed to be covered up.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 06:08 pm
@spendius,
spendi, I responded directly to what your wrote:
Quote:
A lot of kids have been killed, some burnt to death, in cars. They are all incidents and there are many more of them than the victims of evil priests and they were all far more traumatised.


There are many ways humans are traumatised, but priests who teach morals and commit rape against children is much different than what happens in "accidents" of all kinds.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 06:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There are no accidents ci. I thought you are an expert in cause and effect. All the scientists I've known were.

I don't mix with them now on account of how boring they are.

Do you drive, or allow yourself to be driven, along roads where kids are playing or in other cars? Are you trusting to luck you didn't kill or maim any of them. All the drivers that did kill or maim kids were also trusting to luck.

You are distorting evidence to get your silly point across. And revealing an obsession.
 

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