Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

LOUISIANA UPDATE

Quote:

BESE to consider textbooks on Dec. 7-9
(Will Sentell | Baton Rouge Advocate | November 15, 2010)

More controversy is expected when Louisiana’s top school board decides whether to approve high school science textbooks next month, officials on both sides of the issue said Monday.

“I don’t think there is any way that it will not be controversial,” said Jim Garvey of Mandeville, vice-president elect of the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, also known as BESE.

A state advisory panel on Friday voted 8-4 to endorse a variety of high school science textbooks despite complaints on how they describe evolution.

BESE is set to make the final decision when it meets Dec. 7-9.

Ian Binns, an assistant professor of science education at LSU, attended Friday’s meeting and said Monday he plans to attend the BESE gatherings to support the recommended textbooks.

“I want to make sure we are teaching science in the classroom appropriately,” Binns said.

But Lennie Ditoro, who lives in Mandeville, also plans to be on hand at BESE to renew her criticism of what she sees as flaws in the books.

Ditoro, who has worked with the Louisiana Family Forum, said Monday the textbooks omit information about biology that needs to be discussed in high school classrooms.

The Louisiana Family Forum says it promotes traditional values.

At issue are textbooks covering biology I, biology II and environmental science.

Backers say they are in line with similar school books nationwide.

Critics argue that this year’s proposed list puts too much credence in Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

Darwin’s theory is that life forms have changed over time by mutations, with the pressure of natural selection determining which species survive.

Penny Dastugue of Mandeville, president-elect of BESE, said Monday she thinks the 11-member panel will approve the textbooks next month.

Walter Lee of Mansfield, another BESE member, said he plans to back adoption of the textbooks “unless I hear something that would convince me I should do otherwise.”

However, Garvey said he wants to review DVDs and other materials on the issue of how evolution is handled in the books.

“I still have some questions,” he said.

“It surprised me to hear that there might be some weaknesses and inaccuracies, and I want to know what those may be,” Garvey added.

Public school textbooks are generally reviewed and updated in seven-year cycles in Louisiana.

Those under fire in this year’s batch began undergoing scrutiny in January.

House Education Committee Vice-Chairman Frank Hoffmann, R-West Monroe, was one of four “no” votes when the advisory panel voted on the textbooks last Friday.

Hoffmann said Monday he was concerned that the books under review were not consistent with a 2009 state law called the Louisiana Science Education Act.

That measure allows science teachers to use DVDs and other supplemental materials, in addition to state-issued textbooks, on evolution and other topics.

Hoffmann said he was surprised that the motion to recommend the textbooks to BESE passed by such a lopsided margin.

2 Replies

@wandeljw,

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Darwin’s theory is that life forms have changed over time by mutations, with the pressure of natural selection determining which species survive.

What do they have to say about the artificial preservation of endangered species which, as far as I know, is a characteristic only of our Christian culture?

What do they say about types bred for artificial circumstances such as racehorses, which couldn't survive in the wild, and pets bred as fashion accessories and shows? Almost all our fruit and veg is artificial. Most of our meat is artificial too. Natural selection is not involved in the bulk of our commercial food production unless human intelligently designed procedures are considered natural.

What do they say about cloning and genetic modification?

What do they say about humans not having a mating season?

What do they say about the Geneva Convention?

What do they say about our laws, customs and traditions all of which are specifically arranged to overcome the forces of natural selection.

The life forms in the clasrooms and in the administration of those classrooms are changed over time by procedures owing their existence to religion. Bullying is perfectly natural in the animal world. The tree bullies its way to a monopoly of light and moisture.

To what extent is the dress, manners and attitudes of the participants in the argument conditioned by natural selection? Darwin found Tierra del Fuegians naked in a cold climate. Why are not those who want the teaching of science in the classroom to be appropriate going naked in the hot climate of Lousiana? Why do they not engage in sexual activity promiscuously?

The members of the family forum and their allies have perfectly good reasons to dress and act as they do. What reasons have their opponents?

Quote:

Ditoro, who has worked with the Louisiana Family Forum, said Monday the textbooks omit information about biology that needs to be discussed in high school classrooms.

She is being coy there wande. I bet if she laid it all out what is omitted the science fanatics would jump out of their skin. And so would the anti-ID puritans on this thread. And the editor of the Baton Rouge Advocate.

What does compulsory education have to do with natural selection? It's actually an antidote for it.

These anti-IDers are like a dog playing with a plastic bone.

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@wandeljw,

wandeljw's source wrote:

Hoffmann said he was surprised that the motion to recommend the textbooks to BESE passed by such a lopsided margin.

Yes indeed! My goodness gracious, when you've got God on your side, you're supposed to win! You're certainly, at the least, no to be humiliated in defeat.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Im gratified that , if the concept of "educational excellence" originally meant nothing to the board , at least "lets not look too stupid to the rest of the world" does.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

This whole stew has got to be mortifying to well-informed and well-educated citizens. I'm sure the same can be said about the citizens of Texas.

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@Setanta,

Its also a personal shot over Jindhals rails. He better get with a reasonable program rather than that right wing Evangelical ****. I hope he starts listening to FRank Collins group who wants Evangelicals to start accepting modern science over Genesis .

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You know all those countries where religion is taught in schools ? Well the world ended. Didnt you get the "end of the world thanks for all the fish" memo ?

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@farmerman,

The Guv will only ever get national office by being elected to the Congress from Louisiana--whether he has yet admitted it to himself or not. He could never hope to run for Prez--it would be so easy to torpedo his bid with this stupidity over the last few years. Maybe he's never had such ambitions, or maybe he realized too late what a jackass he's made of himself.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

This whole stew has got to be mortifying to well-informed and well-educated citizens.

Which I suppose means that Setanta and anti-IDers are "well-informed and well-educated citizens." A joke in my book.

fm wrote-

Quote:

Its also a personal shot over Jindhals rails. He better get with a reasonable program rather than that right wing Evangelical ****. I hope he starts listening to FRank Collins group who wants Evangelicals to start accepting modern science over Genesis .

It has nothing to do with personalities. It has to do with teaching biological science in the schools. fm's failure to deal with my post and latch on to some meaningless and self-serving platitudes instead suggests that the science he wants to teach the kids is that limited part of biological science, the "reasonable" part, which doesn't make him uncomfortable.

Notice how he uses the disrespectful "Jindhals" (minus the punctuation) and the more respectful, slightly, FRank Collins.

Personal animus is all that he is concerned with. The "science" is his menu.

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@Setanta,

I was more concerned that he redirect his terms as gov. I think he knows that his national career options are severely limited (Unless hes in a second place seat in a Palin/Jindhal ticket)

The folks in the Tulane and OOH LA communities are still rather mortified at how he,a biologist with an advanced degree, can be so unashamedly dim in public.

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Quote:

Piyush Amrit "Bobby" Jindal (born June 10, 1971) is the 55th and current Governor of Louisiana and formerly a member of the United States House of Representatives. He is a member of the Republican Party.

On October 20, 2007, Jindal was elected governor of Louisiana, winning a four-way race with 54.2% of the vote. At age 36, Jindal became the youngest current governor in the United States. He is the first elected non-white Governor of Louisiana and the first Indian-American governor in the country. In 2008, Governor Jindal was ranked one of the nation's most popular governors with an approval rating of 77%.

Before Jindal was elected governor, he was a member of Congress for Louisiana's 1st congressional district, elected in 2004. Jindal was re-elected to the House in the 2006 election with 88% of the vote. He is the second Indian-American elected to Congress

Mr Jindhal is also a Rhodes Scholar.

I refer viewers here to Wikipedia's entry on Mr Jindhal so that they can assess Setanta's use of "jackass" and fm's use of "dim" for their worth. There are 130 external references to the entry.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Well, i could think of nothing better than a Palin/Anybody ticket. This joker either knows he has no national hopes, or he is that rarest of politicians--one who is actually clueless about a greater public opinion than that of his constituency, whose views have coincided with those of his constituents, without understanding that it's just coincidence. That's the only basis upon which i could imagine he'd still entertain hopes of national office.

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@spendius,

Quote:

they can assess Setanta's use of "jackass" and fm's use of "dim" for their worth

They use those words when they want to say someone disagrees with them. Its code for "God I hope we are right".

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@Ionus,

I went to a church school. There was Bible class. There was also technical classes like math and chemistry and physics. I don't understand your problem, you want to mix them all together?

What was that about the fish anyway?

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

They use those words when they want to say someone disagrees with them. Its code for "God I hope we are right".

Yes--I know Io. But what if they were to use them in a classroom using the authority of the educational system. Wouldn't young kids have a tendency to believe them and come to the conclusion that Rhodes Scholarships were the territory of jackasses and dimmies.

It is getting themselves into the classroom with the authority of the educational system that they are engaged in here.

Although a cynic might say that there was a chance they had rejected those tenets of Christian teaching not already covered by the law (nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more) in early life for reasons any selfish-gene would understand and then having been vociferous in their contentions in front of a large number of witnesses on escalating energy levels with more and more witnesses their pride demands that backing down is now impossible. The classrooms being actually irrelevant as you can easily see from their posts.

Never allowing, of course, any mention of those processes the selfish gene understands which opened the gate of the primrose path of righteous scientific rectitude and which has led them to where they now are. Those are long buried in the unconscious now that the convenience of them is no longer so keenly felt.

A psychologist might say it derives from the natural rebellion of youth against the traditional wisdom of the old stagers. Matthew Arnold admitted to that in Essays on Criticism which is well worth reading. His father, by the bye, invented the NFL. He had figured that the best solution for the problem of the students when the teachers wanted a break from them was to get them in a heap in the middle of a muddy field, fighting.

It can't possibly derive from the knowledge that there is no God. And beliefs readily lend themselves to the processes a selfish gene would understand and especially so in rebellious types "in a hurry" as fm was in his dream on the "What did you dream last night" thread. He was, in the dream, in a muck sweat getting people pigeon-holed.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Can you summarize in 20 words or less?

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@electronicmail,

It was as tight as I could make it. I do honour the intelligence of A2Kers you know.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
It was as tight as I could make it
.

I believe you.

Quote:

I do honour the intelligence of A2Kers you know.

You're insulting everyone's intelligence if you can't summarize.

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@electronicmail,

Not at all. What would you cut out?

You're insulting our intelligence with your little blurted soundbites of the type one might hear in any bus queue.

1 Reply

@spendius,

I would cut out the lot. It's meaningless. If you got a point, state it.

1 Reply

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