Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

@farmerman,

Have you cleared that with ros fm?

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@High Seas,

It's old stuff on this thread HS. If you don't believe in God you lose your wits.

And the evidence is staring you in the face.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Yes - I saw you mentioning this the first time you posted it - no need to quote yourself - you got faithful readership here. It was in response to that half-baked remark by Mr Coons that I posted background info mentioning Jefferson, Madison, as well as another constitutional expert, Story.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

really, really, low probability event.

The main factors such as ....
a physical shelter...we have been greatly aided by a moon and Jupiter soaking up a share of debris..
liquid water....we are the only wet planet we know of
right temperature....too hot and the processes occur too quickly, too cold and the processes are too slow....the porridge has to be just right
a second generation star....the materials of life need to be produced in first generation stars. If the universe is 13.75 billion years old, then the first 8 billion can be eliminated as needed for first generation stars to die, leaving the material for life. This makes our star one of the earliest in the second generation series. Intelligent life may evolve after us, but we may be the first.
enough time...most of what we are has evolved in the last half billion years and the surface will fry in a billion more years but it took 4.7 billion years to get this far which was leaving it a bit late. Another cataclysmic event and we might not make the next billion.

Quote:

if there are infinitely many parallel universes

The definition of reality is THIS universe so even if they do exist, they dont. Parallel universes is one of the many ways science is trying to out do religion. Using a huge energy machine to measure extremely small pieces of energy is the equivalent of a kilometer size thermometer to measure the temperature of an amoeba. A bad idea to begin with, no wonder it produces strange results.

For completion sake, I should mention there is no possibility of alien life and us ever getting together, even if they are only amoeba. If it is made of matter, it will never approach the speed of light, let alone reach it. We are stuck here, and "they" are stuck there.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

Quote:

Given our universe of origin all of us have a hard time figuring out how that cat exists in those parallel universes at all - and if we happened to trip over the critter we would probably strangle it to put it out of its misery, floating as it is in some probabilistic purgatory.

Forget the cat...what is being said is that for small mass high energy particles when we measure the effect of gravity we lose other information about them. When we measure the other information we lose the effect of gravity. Based on probability, in an extremely long period of time, that particle could be on the other side of the room. It short, the whole theory is dribble. I have heard some physicists say if you dont believe in it, then you havent understood it ! Very Happy

This is called a leap of faith.....the priest has spoken.

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@spendius,

I believe in Ganesha I just have never seen it have you? I am not saying that it is not possible! I guess we just need to have faith and never question our beliefs at least this is what neuroscience tells me. Maybe I have it backwards?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Quote:

Maybe I have it backwards?

No, you have it correct.

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@High Seas,

I thought Coons expressed it well. It is actual case law that has defined the meaning of the establishment clause.

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@wandeljw,

Good to see you online - am sure you can help locate a USSC decision whose name I forget, but I remember the numbers:

The decision was 6 to 1, with Justice Douglas dissenting. Chief justice was Burger. The case concerned a group of Amish parents who wanted to take their children out of a school teaching mathematics and science, based on what they claimed were Amish religious principles. The 6 justices agreed; Douglas objected on grounds that children, even when young, have some rights on what they wish to learn, and nobody had consulted the children on whether they wanted to study math and science. I never hear anyone mentioning it, but that case would be eminently relevant to the topic here - sorry can't remember the name, but could you please look for it based on these few data? Thanks Smile

1 Reply

@High Seas,

Wisconsin v. Yoder?

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@wandeljw,

I thought that Coons handled it badly, that he stumbled over it. I was bothered both that he misquoted the no establishment clause, and that the law school crowd, while laughing at O'Donnell, passed over his gaffe in silence. I'm not running for public office, never have and never will. But i can quote the first amendment correctly. I think O'Donnell is an idiot. Nevertheless, the crowd cut her no slack while giving Coons a pass.

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@Francis,

Yes!!!! Francis - thank you. To my knowledge this decision has never been overturned. It's scarier than the one mentioned by Coons.

Quote:

Decision: The Amish parents did not have to obey the Wisconsin law because it interfered with their religion.

Significance: The decision provided a test for balancing the state interest in education against the individual freedom of religion.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I thought that Coons handled it badly, that he stumbled over it. .... the crowd cut her no slack while giving Coons a pass.

Agree completely - and blame O'Donnell's handlers for not briefing her better. The Tea Party has cut off her funding completely.

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@High Seas,

Certainly it would have been better if she had been properly briefed. But best of all would be for her to actually know the text of the constitution, and the import of court decisions based on it. She has touted herself as a constitutional scholar. Yet she didn't know the content of the 14th and 16th amendments.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Maybe she has personal issues as the result of the 21st amendment.

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Somebody should have asked how she feels about the 27th amendment. Surely tea partiers are OK with that one.

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UPDATE ON OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER CONTROVERSY

Quote:

Settlement signed by both parties in civil lawsuit
(By Pamela Schehl, Mount Vernon News, October 27, 2010)

Documents obtained from the Licking County Probate/Juvenile Court suggest an end to the civil rights lawsuit filed by the Dennis family against suspended Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher John Freshwater may be in sight. Stephen and Jenifer Dennis, as well as Freshwater, have signed a settlement agreement which is now before the court.

As part of the settlement agreement, the Dennis family has agreed to forego recovery of the sanctions awarded to them by the federal district judge presiding over the case. Judge Gregory Frost had ordered Freshwater and his personal attorney R. Kelly Hamilton to personally pay a portion of the Dennis’ legal fees and costs as a penalty for failing to comply with court orders related to the lawsuit.

The settlement involves a $300,000 payment by Freshwater’s insurer to Stephen and Jenifer Dennis to compensate them “for mental pain and other damages suffered.” The insurer, Ohio Casualty, is the school district’s liability carrier, and is involved because Freshwater was a school district employee at the time the lawsuit was filed.

A separate payment of $150,000, over the course of the next 13 years, will be used to purchase an annuity for their minor son, Zach Dennis, on whose behalf the lawsuit was originally filed. The settlement agreement also includes a $25,000 payment to Jones Day, the Dennises’ counsel.

In an attached statement, the Dennises told the court: “This settlement with Mr. Freshwater was the result of very lengthy and involved discussions, and was reached shortly before trial was scheduled. The settlement required extensive involvement by Judge Gregory Frost, the federal court judge who presided over the civil action. The Dennises agreed to this settlement in order to avoid having to put their son, Zach, and other Mount Vernon school students through the ordeal of what would likely have been a multi-week trial.”

The matter of the settlement agreement will go before Licking County Probate Judge Robert Hoover on Nov. 23.

An earlier settlement was reached with the Mount Vernon City Schools Board of Education, et al., which had been co-defendants in this civil action. According to that August 2009 agreement, the school board’s insurance company agreed to pay $115,000 toward the Dennises legal fees, $5,500 to Zachary Dennis and $1 each to Stephen and Jenifer Dennis. The school board also agreed to provide training to administrators and teachers concerning religion and public schools, which it did Aug. 18, 2009.

In a voicemail left this morning, Freshwater said he had no comment regarding the settlement.

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I'll bet this is not getting a lot of play in the reactionary press.

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@Setanta,

I agree with wandel. "Handling it badly" when all he did was quote what the USSC actually said is all he should have done. In this election, Coons has adroitly avoided being too heavy handed with ODonnell. There is a fine line between making your case and sounding like a brute who is out to slam the woman candidate.

HS, yeh YODER is the decision.
Go to Cornell LAw school USSC decision website. It has ALL the USSC decisions presented in several hundred categories.
It presents the decision: whoever writes for the majority, additional support to the affirmative, and then presents thedissenting opinion(s). IMHO its the best at presenting these. Ill see if I have it favoritized.

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@Setanta,

That is not so much a "settlement" as it is "sentencing before judgement". Freshwater's insurance carrier has probably negotiated on their own behalf.

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