61
   

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2010 04:26 pm
@rosborne979,
2012....................
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2010 04:55 pm
@farmerman,
It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis fm. I don't see what is a cause for any fright. When men shows signs of fright it makes the ladies nervous. And the horses. And neither are any good.

Steel yourself man. Stiff upper lip.

What I want to ask you is this--Did the rejection by the Founding Fathers of an established religion result, possibly inevitably, in the nitwit from Florida being able to hold the breath of the world intook for a week or more? Will other nitwits find more subtle methods to get themselves on TV? Will Media jump all over them like they have in this case and raise what is nothing but an insignificant localised village duckpond ginnygreenteeth infestation into a matter of international importance humiliating your president along the way and rendering your Constitution into what it obviously is.

I seem to remember that some of wande's quotes of reports relating to events have involved even fewer people than Pastor Dickhead has in his flock.

And what is a society dedicated to business doing when it is toying with the idea of burning a book which might be sold on e-bay for $2.99 excl. packing and shipping.

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Sep, 2010 05:29 pm
@spendius,
Do you people get fresh clams over there?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:18 am
@farmerman,
guess not
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 08:25 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Do you people get fresh clams over there?


I've no idea. I would need wages to eat a clam. You get the bowels don't you? Can you get an anal obsession from consuming the horrible items?

Didn't fancy the question eh fm? Wimp!!

0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 09:22 am
ALBERTA CANADA UPDATE
Quote:
Bill 44 is a hymn to absurdity
(Eric Mathison, Opinions Editor, University of Calgary Gauntlet, September 09, 2010)

Think of some human rights. Some of them involve freedom from certain things, like discrimination based on sex or religion. These are often referred to as negative rights because they involve inaction to be fulfilled. In contrast, positive rights are things like the right to a fair trial -- an action has to be performed by others for this right to be fulfilled. A provincial government bill enacted this week is introducing a new right. Bill 44 gives parents the right to remove their children from classes deemed contrary to the parents' religious and sexual beliefs.

Rights are tricky things. One can claim a right to just about anything, and political capital is easily gained by introducing a new right. For instance, Finland recently claimed that its citizens have a legal right to broadband internet access. Once enshrined, it's difficult to remove a right because of the leverage the word provides ("but I have a right to fast internet"). Ethically the point of a right is to protect individuals from being harmed for the greater good. I have a right to autonomy, for example. While society might benefit more from me being forced to work for free, I am protected from that trade off occurring.

Bill 44 confers a specific right to parents by allowing them to remove their children from certain types of classes. If I, as a parent, deny the evidence of evolution, then I can deny it on behalf of my child as well, according to the bill. Similarly, if I don't want my 16-year-old to learn about sex, then I now have the right to prevent her from discovering such information in class. My reasons are inconsequential. All that is required of me is to inform the school of my opinion and lo, the right must be obeyed.

The main concern regards the extent that parents should be allowed to control the upbringing of their children. A knowledge of science is necessary to be a productive member of society. Science class teaches what the evidence suggests, not what people believe about the evidence. Indeed, science doesn't care what one's beliefs about the matter are -- the Earth still revolves around the sun and evolution by natural selection occurs whether we believe it does or not. The autonomy rights of a child to, say, go into science are thus infringed because of forced ignorance.

The problems with Bill 44 may be more pronounced when considering sex education. Sexually transmitted infections aren't taught in school because society believes them to be a good idea. No, they're taught so that teenagers are educated to prevent them. Teaching teenagers about birth control similarly recognizes that many of them are going to have sex before they finish high school, and if they wish to avoid an unwanted pregnancy they should know how to prevent one. Part of the motivation for the bill was that parents were upset their children were learning about homosexuality. Learning about homosexuality, however, will not increase the risk of the child becoming homosexual, which is the real worry such parents hold.

In spite of Bill 44, there are good reasons to prevent parents from being the sole source of information that children have. This is partly for pragmatic reasons -- even well-educated parents are unlikely to have more diversity of knowledge than all the teachers a student will encounter. But the stronger reason is that parents shouldn't be allowed to teach their children whatever they want. Evolution is not a matter of opinion and students ought to come in contact with these ideas. (After all, teaching evolution in schools hasn't lowered the risk of children falling prey to parental ignorance.)

As it turns out, children have rights as well. In Nicholas Humphrey's memorable phrase, they have the right "not to have their minds addled by nonsense." True, children don't possess all the rights adults do. It isn't out of bigotry that we prevent ten-year-olds from driving or voting. There are some things, however, that they do have the right to. They have the right to have different religious and political and sexual preferences from their parents, for instance. Teenagers also have the right to consensual sex with a person of either gender, free from the ignorance of how to put on a condom. When the right of an adult to parent conflicts with the best interests of the child, surely the child's rights take precedence. Other rights, such as healthcare, cannot be overridden by the choice of a parent.

The second problem of Bill 44 is the implication that teachers can be called before the Alberta Human Rights Commission should they have the audacity to teach students things that contradict their parents' beliefs. It's unfortunate that such parents are already intellectually stunted. It would be a double shame if the next generation ends up the same way.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 09:56 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Similarly, if I don't want my 16-year-old to learn about sex, then I now have the right to prevent her from discovering such information in class.


That's slippery. What will the 16 year-old be told about sex in this hypothetical classroom? What Mr Mathison thinks about sex I suppose. Will the teachers have any hang-ups about sex?

Quote:
The main concern regards the extent that parents should be allowed to control the upbringing of their children.


Unless a court deems them unfit they should exercise complete control. I know lefties disagree. They think they know better.

Quote:
A knowledge of science is necessary to be a productive member of society.


That's a flat out falsehood. And what does a productive member of society mean? Is getting money for writing falsehoods productive.

Quote:
Science class teaches what the evidence suggests, not what people believe about the evidence.


That's false too. Thankfully.

Quote:
evolution by natural selection occurs whether we believe it does or not.


Only in the wild and the science class couldn't exist in the wild.

Quote:
The autonomy rights of a child to, say, go into science are thus infringed because of forced ignorance.


Such rights are infringed by the poor little thing having been born. If it makes it past this idiots's abortion clinics. And Mathison is defining ignorance.

I'm going no further with this nitwit. Why did you post such unscientific tripe on a science thread wande? Will you please explain? Nobody as biased as Mathison obviously is can be considered remotely scientific.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:16 am
@spendius,
It seems to me that Bill 44 addresses the same concerns that you have expressed on this thread, spendi. Bill 44 allows parents to keep their children out of school subjects that the parents may consider immoral.

(You are always trying to get other posters to address your issues. Now there is legislation in Canada that seems to directly address your issues.)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 03:28 pm
@wandeljw,
That's not the point wande. The point is Mathison's slant on Bill 44. That is what was out of place on a science thread.

What's a science thread doing putting this on its pages--

Quote:
It's unfortunate that such parents are already intellectually stunted.


As if intellectuals want sex demonstrated to their kids with a milk bottle and a banana. He's off his marbles. And arrogant with it.

I'm all in favour of the Bill. Neurotic teachers teaching sex!!! Whatever will they think of next?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 03:45 pm
@spendius,
Although you may not agree with the writer's opinion, he does do a good job explaining what Bill 44 is about. My reaction was: "Bill 44 addresses exactly what spendius has been telling us!"
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:20 pm
@wandeljw,
Good. Let's hope it passes.

And that Mathison is put on a road mending gang.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:50 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
the words Pliocene and Pleistocene
Have you forgotten you blurred both into some bastardised version of a single word ? Ran off to google again, did we ?

Your ego is pathetic.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:54 pm
@Ionus,
I thought you said you are an anti-IDer Io.

It isn't done on here for one anti-IDer to question a fellow traveller no matter what they say.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 05:57 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Our Constitution forbids CREATIONISM to be taught "AS SCIENCE" in any science class that is funded with public money.
Your original statement. It is as full of garbage as all of your posts.

Words like "forbids" and "CREATIONISM" show you havent a clue what you are talking about.

Quote:
The Constitution says what the Supreme Court interprets it to have said.
Very STUPID, even by your standards. The Constitution says what it says. The Supreme Courts interpretation is a seperate matter.

Quote:
Quote:
seperation
and of course this word is spelled "separation".
The last person in the world to check someone else's spelling should be you. Do you read that incogerent drunken ramblings where you think you are being clever ?

Sober up before your next post, alcho.

What happened Gomer ? You didnt cleverly fit in references to **** in that post ? Not feeling well ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:00 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Is it standard practice in American geological elites to reply to considered and responsible statements by asserting that those who make them have their knickers in a knot? I thought such practices to be confined to girls junior school playgrounds.
Spendi, please ! Gomer is not capable of discussion above himself, **** and arseholes. Of course knickers is on his mind. Take into account his very severe limitations.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:02 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I did not know that.
First accurate statement by you ever !! Well done !! Have you learnt what a Pleicoene is yet because I would love to hear that one. Stop all the bluff and admit you fucked-up, clown.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It is evident that you have not kept up with all the lawsuits that have transpired in this country.
It is evident you have no idea what I have kept up with. If you knew something of constitutional law you would be aware Gomer's post was garbage.

Quote:
The creationists have always lost in our courts of law.
And I hope they continue to do so. My point is it is hardly helpful for a country to fight in this way, and if you relax a little in several (I know Gomer likes that spelling of the word) generations it will have died out. Religion can not be taught as science, and science can not answer questions people ask in their insecure daily lives.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:09 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Do you people get fresh clams over there?
You see spendi, that is his degree of intelligence. You expect too much from him. He is a self proclaimed scientist who has never published and by his own admission only has a degree. He is a pedestrian on the freeway.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:12 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus, We know there was no "Greece," but how would you identify locations from millions of years ago that had no identifiable countries?

Please show us the way.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 06:14 pm
@Ionus,
Yes, we do, by your stupid, ignorant responses. I'm not interested in what Gomer said; I addressed your post.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.15 seconds on 11/25/2024 at 11:36:30