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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:38 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

QUEENSLAND AUSTRALIA UPDATE
Quote:
Creationists hijack lessons and teach schoolkids man and dinosaurs walked together
(By Carly Hennessy and Kathleen Donaghey, The Brisbane Courier-Mail, August 01, 2010)

Fundamentalist Christians are hijacking Religious Instruction (RI) classes in Queensland despite education experts saying Creationism and attempts to convert children to Christianity have no place in state schools.

Critics are calling for the RI program to be scrapped after claims emerged Christian lay people are feeding children misinformation.

"But the teacher replied that DNA wasn't invented then."


Christians are feeding children misinformation? No, it can't be.

It's interesting that the RI classes are supposed to be multi-denominational, but they object to Christians pushing their own beliefs. I'm not sure what they expected. It's hard enough to keep religion out of science class, it must be down right impossible to keep it out of religion classes.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:46 am
@wandeljw,
The Brisbane Courier-Mail wande is hardly an opinion former which I would expect an anti-IDer to quote. It seems to be connected through News Corporation and the New York Post to Mr Rupert Murdoch. It is in favour of free market economics, globalisation and the invasion of Iraq. As I have understood from various comments such things are anathema to anti-IDers. One would expect it to be opposed to a national school curriculum being imposed by central government in the hands of a bunch of left-wing militants.

I don't think any IDers would object to atheists setting up secular schools and allowing them to take their chance in a free market in education. I certainly wouldn't. They might need to be inspected by the Vice Squad from time to time though in case some of the extreme teachers followed in the footsteps of Socrates.

Your attachment to your cause is self-evidently more emotional than intellectual.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:54 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
"The scripture teacher told the class that all people were descended from Adam and Eve," he said.

"My daughter rightly pointed out, as I had been teaching her about DNA and science, that 'wouldn't they all be inbred'?

"But the teacher replied that DNA wasn't invented then."


WOuldnt they all be inbred?. A simply worded question that shows how a kid can see beyond the curriculum and pose the next level of discussion which could have really been a great teaching moment. If only the BoBle instructor had more brains than a stalk of celery.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:31 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If only the BoBle instructor had more brains than a stalk of celery.
I think you may be pushing your luck on that one.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 02:23 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
A simply worded question that shows how a kid can see beyond the curriculum and pose the next level of discussion which could have really been a great teaching moment.


Don't get overexcited old boy with another how to sound like an expert without being one performance.

What would you have said? Explained about holons and holarchies and alleles and genotypes and phenotypes and morphic units and fields and about the Sheldrake doing the Hokey-Cokey and shake baby shake resonances to the tune of an accordian and Marduk shoving the tempests down Tiamat's throat till she busted and her top end forming the heavens and her bottom end getting in the kitchen and rattling the pots and pans.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:49 pm
@dyslexia,
I don't think so, and I say this on good authority. LOL
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:26 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
WOuldnt they all be inbred?. A simply worded question that shows how a kid can see beyond the curriculum and pose the next level of discussion which could have really been a great teaching moment. If only the BoBle instructor had more brains than a stalk of celery.

But what's really twisted is that in the mind of the Creationist, that answer was the correct answer. Adam and Eve were created magically, and sometime after that DNA was created magically as well. Very simple.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:31 pm
@rosborne979,
and another kids mind gets uselessly fucked up by some hillbilly .
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:41 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
and another kids mind gets uselessly fucked up by some hillbilly .

On the bright side... someone taught that kid about inbreeding, and she apparently understood it well enough to apply it to what she was being told.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:28 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I have said everything correctly
Bullshit. You have been lighting your own smokescreens and desperately putting out fires at the same time. You are a fraud and it was typical of the mistakes you make. People like you out of dislike of me. You are nothing to them except a rallying point.

Quote:
in which you have no knowledge beyond some comic book
So you would betray your comic book education by attacking them ? For shame, Gomer the Turd, for shame !!

Quote:
It wasnt my original thought
Then you disagree with it ? Or do you throw it in with the hope no-one knows what you are talking about ? What is your opinion ?

Quote:
If you cant debate an issue , you become nasty.
I am glad you have kept your sense of humuor. You have neither the knowledge nor the ego to tolerate a debate for very long without entering the murky swirl of aresholes and ****...what were you toilet trained with ? A chainsaw ? But you would blame me for following you down into the gutter in which you live....hey, thats what rat catches do....

Quote:
You certainly are an insecure little guy arent you?
You have made up all manor of lies about who you are and what you know. You are the first to use insults but cant remember doing it so you blame me. Now you want us to believe you are a Civil War Expert, Geologist, Scientist, Geneticist, Constitutional Lawyer, and many others too numerous to list....all I see is an aging fool with serious childhood issues coming back to haunt him in a prolonged mid-life crisis who seriously wishes he had done some formal training in something..ANYTHING...so he didnt have such deep regrets. You are on the right track with insecurity....
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:30 am
@spendius,
I think they are in the pay of Dawkins except he would probably cringe at their radical nature.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:34 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
and another kids mind gets uselessly fucked up by some hillbilly .
Now, Gomer, you cant take credit for failing that student.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:38 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
WOuldnt they all be inbred?. A simply worded question that shows how a kid can see beyond the curriculum and pose the next level of discussion which could have really been a great teaching moment. If only the BoBle instructor had more brains than a stalk of celery.
I agree. It could have been explained that Adam was the name for all men and women but later some religious instructor decided to make things up and based on the false belief that Adam was one person, they invented Eve. They tend to live in the emotional hemisphere, where imagination reigns supreme. I think this is an argument for taking religious instruction out of the hands of the wanna-be's. Qualified religious instructors with a syllabus would have avoided this.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:50 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
People like you [Farmerman] out of dislike of me. You are nothing to them except a rallying point.

I can't speak for everybody, but I like him because he provides reliable, thoughtful, valuable information (which I have confirmed on many occasions), and because I've learned many things from him over the years (almost a decade of interaction on A2K). Also he's got a good sense of humor and tells us stories about crashing into deer and falling off roofs after being stung by wasps (I hate wasps). In my opinion, he's one of the most highly respected and valuable members of A2K, and I held that opinion long before you ever arrived.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 06:54 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Ionus wrote:
People like you [Farmerman] out of dislike of me. You are nothing to them except a rallying point.

I can't speak for everybody, but I like him because he provides reliable, thoughtful, valuable information (which I have confirmed on many occasions), and because I've learned many things from him over the years (almost a decade of interaction on A2K). Also he's got a good sense of humor and tells us stories about crashing into deer and falling off roofs after being stung by wasps (I hate wasps). In my opinion, he's one of the most highly respected and valuable members of A2K, and I held that opinion long before you ever arrived.
The guy is jealous of farmerman for exposing him for a fool. He attacks endlessly but has no teeth. I don't understand why he is not on more ignore lists.
Ionus
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 07:04 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
The guy is jealous of farmerman for exposing him for a fool. He attacks endlessly but has no teeth. I don't understand why he is not on more ignore lists.
I dislike Gomer becuase of his quickness to insult with references to **** and arseholes rather than debate. As for no teeth, if I respected your opinion I still wouldnt worry. Ignore lists ? You mean a declaration of bigotry by those too stupid to know what it means. I am happy to be on everyone's ignore list. I will never place anyone on mine. Even the dull and the ignorant can teach me something, though in Gomer's case it is quickly dwindling to very very little.

But Mister Edd, it isnt like you to jump in with no contribution but to side with Gomer...oh, wait, yes it is...actually it is your only contribution. Apart from that time you said you had stuck your fingers in your ears and werent listening..that was very informative.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 09:05 am
Mr Ted Hughes's very difficult and severe theological book, Shakespeare and the Goddess of Complete Being, almost disqualifies itself from this argument by its complexity which contrasts so markedly with the simplicities which abound both on this thread and in the general argument as presented in the quotes wande provides from certain newspapers: the interconnectedness of which I often point out and which are scientific facts despite being consistently ignored and which give the lie to the impression that a large number of sources are being quoted when in actual fact there are a mere handful and all large corporations centred in megalopolitan areas where licentiousness is the Zietgeist.

Hence it is not easy to provide quotes from the book in the absence of the overall context. Nevertheless, here is one which might cause someone to acquire the book and follow up the argument and be abled to know why the simplicities are grossly misleading.

Quote:
But while Iago performs this role, as the envious intelligence of the Puritan, inquisitorial outlook, he throws a bigger shadow. It is clear enough in the text that Iago inherits an old morality-play identity as a parody of the devil himself ( "I look down towards his feet, but that's a fable"), and that his obsession with the love of Othello and Desdemona resembles Satan's jealousy of Adam and Eve in Paradise---fanatic to manipulate and destroy the blissful reality and relationship that he can never share, and that excludes him. But Shakespeare goes further. Othello is powerless to resist the sheer pragmatic logicality of Iago's suggestions. Iago's conquest is a triumph of pure empirical reason. But as if this identification of loveless intelligence with reason and the scientific method, and all three with the Satan who destroys love, were not enough, Shakespeare uses various means to invest Iago with his full theological credentials. And there is little doubt , when Iago identifies himself with the pointed inversion: "I am not what I am", that Satan himself has taken on the mantle of Jehovah in the Reformation myth, as the destroyer of the Goddess. In this portrait , where the Jehovah God , the Jehovah Satan, and dogmatic, rational, objective (finally atheistic) intelligence coalesce in a malevolent onslaught on the world of love, Shakespeare passes close to Ivan Karamazov's Grand Inquisator on the one side and to Blake's Urizen on the other. And the fact that Iago is one of Shakespeare's most densely realized characters gives these theological and mythic elements in the algebra of his make-up the fullness, and the dynamic force, of a mystery of life.


So now we have not only Shakespeare banned from secular school curricula but also Dostoeevsky, Blake and Ted Hughes, a Poet Laureate. And, in the fullness of time, from the Stage, from libraries and private bookshelves. And Goethe's Faust.

And the rational scientific case for eugenics, which not one Darwinist dare make, then becomes unanswerable and lingerie and female beautification become anachronisms as neither affect biological determinism and the search for perfection.

So put that to Barbara Forrest, the NCSE, the ACLU, the ladies of wande's quotes and those others you might know less formally.

Incidentally, Bobby Jindal was on his Rhodes Scholarship in Oxford in the same year Hughes's book was published.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 10:22 am
@Ionus,
Why not just get back to the subject. Im certainly not going to be buffaloed by your pompous attitude. If you dont like me or my submissions, Ill not lose any sleep over it. I havent put you on ignore only because you (once in a blue moon) actually do contribute. Spendi, never, Hes just too impressed with himself to take part in debate, so a few people just have him on ignore and we never even see what hes talking about.

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Aug, 2010 01:47 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Spendi, never, Hes just too impressed with himself to take part in debate, so a few people just have him on ignore and we never even see what hes talking about.


fm has directly responded to hundreds of my posts so what on earth is he talking about there? And, furthermore, how does he know I don't contribute if he never sees my posts?

There is nothing to contribute once the logic of the rational, materialistic, atheist position is taken. It all becomes cut and dried. With Freud, all religious belief is illusion. 90% of Americans are mad in other words. Only the atheists are sane.

It is a challenge to the teaching of a materialist doctrine (evolution) that it cannot be taught in a school where non-materialist ideas are widespread. That point was made recently in one of wande's quoted articles. And in my last post. fm complains that I'm too impressed with myself as a means of requiring me to dumb down my contributions.

He simply has no answers and if his bombastic irrelevancies are not seen for what they are it has nothing to do with me.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Aug, 2010 05:47 am
@farmerman,
HMM some kid wasw asking chem questions and he (she) apparently got voted down.

I only got the first and last

1 question needs rephrasing , its got too many variables now

4 Id say Strontium90, its about 29 yrs. and 3.7X9 gives about 1 curie


I now return you to the UK babbler, whose babbling is already in progress
0 Replies
 
 

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