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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:21 pm
@farmerman,
If you do not remove teachers with religious principles then there will be no vacancies for child molesters.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:22 pm
@wandeljw,
In your avatar, wanderer, are you wearing cardinal crimson ?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:27 pm
@dyslexia,
Lessee, that makes me
1Anti ID
2Anti hillbilly

Not a bad day so far.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:28 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
If you do not remove teachers with religious principles then there will be no vacancies for child molesters.
You know what we call child molester teachers in Pa?






























Father
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jun, 2010 05:30 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Somebody" s gotta do it.
oh, yeah, I forgot about that. carry on.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2010 01:31 pm
UPDATE ON OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER HEARINGS
Quote:
Hearing into Mount Vernon teacher isn't over yet
(By Dean Narciso, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, June 9, 2010)

The administrative hearing to determine whether a Mount Vernon teacher should be fired will need an additional few hours to conclude.

Attorneys and the hearing referee had said Tuesday would be the last day of hearing testimony for John Freshwater, accused of promoting his religious beliefs in his 8th grade science classroom.

Referee R. Lee Shepherd has scheduled the morning of June 22 as the final day. Mount Vernon schools want to call Superintendent Steve Short as their final rebuttal witness.

Before Ohio teachers can be fired, they are entitled to a hearing before a referee, who then will make a recommendation to the school board. Freshwater has been suspended without pay since before the hearing started on Aug. 20, 2008.

After the hearing concludes, the attorneys plan to submit written closing arguments to referee R. Lee Shepherd. Depending on when he receives the closing arguments, he will file his recommendation to the school board within about two months after that point.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 09:09 am
Quote:
AAAS hosts June 16 discussion on 'Re-Envisioning the Science and Religion Dialogue'
(American Association for the Advancement of Science, Press Release, June 10, 2010)

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) will host a Wednesday, 16 June, panel discussion on "Re-Envisioning the Science and Religion Dialogue."

Speakers will include William Phillips, professor of physics at the University of Maryland and a 1997 Nobel laureate in physics; Howard Smith, an astrophysicist at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory and author of "Let There be Light: Modern Cosmology and Kabbalah"; David Anderson, founder and lead pastor at the Bridgeway Community Church in Columbia, Maryland; and Rick Potts, director of the Human Origins Program for the Smithsonian Institution.

The event also will welcome astrophysicist Jennifer Wiseman as the new director of the AAAS Dialogue on Science, Ethics, and Religion (DoSER). The program, established in 1995, seeks to foster communication between scientific and religious communities. It builds on the association's long-standing commitment to relate scientific knowledge and technological development to the purposes and concerns of society at large.

Wiseman will moderate the panel discussion, which will be from 4:00 to 5:30 p.m. in the AAAS Auditorium, 12th and H Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. A reception will follow.

Wiseman currently heads the Laboratory for Exoplanets and Stellar Astrophysics at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. She will retain a position at Goddard, where she is the incoming senior project scientist for the Hubble Space Telescope.

"Jennifer Wiseman is an accomplished scientist who also understands the importance of religion in American life and how a deep knowledge of the natural world need not threaten religious belief," said Alan I. Leshner, chief executive officer of AAAS and executive publisher of Science. "With continuing battles over the teaching of evolution in the schools and new fundamentalist attacks on the reliability of climate science, there is a need more than ever for a constructive conversation between scientists and religious groups. Dr. Wiseman is admirably prepared to help make that happen."

In her scientific work, Wiseman studies the formation of stars and planetary systems using radio, optical and infrared telescopes. She has a bachelor's degree in physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. As an undergraduate research assistant, she discovered comet Wiseman-Skiff in 1987. She earned her doctorate in astronomy from Harvard University and continued her research as a Jansky Fellow at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory and a Hubble Fellow at The Johns Hopkins University. She also has an interest in national science policy and served as an American Physical Society Congressional Science Fellow on Capitol Hill.

Wiseman, who enjoys giving talks on science to schools, youth and church groups and civic organizations, said she has noticed recently "an exceptional amount of interest in the public on seeing how the excitement and the wonder of what we're discovering, especially in astronomy, can fit in with other concerns and interests," including religious belief. She began to see "how much of a thirst there was out there for a healthy dialogue, where members of religious groups would really like to hear about the excitement of science and try to think about how it informs their faith and inspires a sense of wonder."

Wiseman said she sees herself as an ambassador to "help people both appreciate what we are discovering in science and feel that they are a part of it." She said the DoSER program is interested in practical ways it can help foster mutual understanding. As an example, she said, leaders of seminaries have asked for help incorporating more science courses and information into their curricula for clergy in training.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:14 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
the attorneys plan to submit written closing arguments to referee R. Lee Shepherd.


Is that not like writing cheques out to yourself drawn on anonymous bank accounts?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2010 05:20 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Wiseman will moderate the panel discussion, which will be from 4:00 to 5:30 p.m.


Which is just sufficient time to introduce and thank all the participants and explain what the discussion is meant to achieve.

Quote:
In her scientific work, Wiseman studies the formation of stars and planetary systems using radio, optical and infrared telescopes.


That's the sort of thing I mean.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 07:17 am
Of vaugely passing interest as a scent in the gentle breeze---

Quote:



Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 07:24 am
@spendius,
Thats rather surprising.....although during the Napoleonic wars Russia had a love affair with the French language and culture.....I suppose about turn is fair play.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Jun, 2010 08:58 am
@Ionus,
I placed the article on the thread Io so that anti-IDers might wonder if it suggests that the Russians have found out the hard way that doing without religion can be a bit of a strain and have now decided to invest in it more than they had recently been doing. The Russian president and prime minister don't give an on-the-winger about the Napoleonic wars.

It's easy to attack an institution if one is not constrained by any thoughts that one's attacks might succeed and the institution be no longer existent along with whatever benefits previous generations must have invented it for. To assume previous generations invented an institution in order to disadvantage themselves requires a view of our culture which is hardly suitable in those who have charge of the education of those who will one day be called upon to empty our bed pans and generally provide for our other needs most of which require a cheerful and charitable disposition rather than a strict empirical attitude which, as we all know, readily turns into officious, no-nonsense efficiency backed up by manuals and whatnot all elaborately peer-reviewed by really efficient, no-nonsense higher-ups who owe their elevations to their no-nonsense and efficient officiousness.

It is readily granted that institutions, especially large ones, are guilty of many follies. That is because institutions are staffed by people and there are many institutions and there are not enough talented people or honest people to go around. Hence the many follies. But to attack the institution itself by drawing attention to the follies is a non-sequitur. There would be no institutions left if that sort of thing prevailed.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 09:10 am
@spendius,
Quote:
From The Sunday Times
June 13, 2010
D’oh, we may never decode the universe
Sir Martin Rees

Understanding vast cosmic events such as galactic collisions is one of science's greatest challenges, says Lord Rees
Jonathan Leake

SOME of the greatest mysteries of the universe may never be resolved because they are beyond human comprehension, according to Lord Rees, president of the Royal Society.

Rees suggests that the inherent intellectual limitations of humanity mean we may never resolve questions such as the existence of parallel universes, the cause of the big bang, or the nature of our own consciousness.

He even compares humanity to fish, which swim through the oceans without any idea of the properties of the water in which they spend their lives.

“A ‘true’ fundamental theory of the universe may exist but could be just be too hard for human brains to grasp,” said Rees, who is also the astronomer royal.

* The day I had my brain switched off

* Brain training games don’t work, study shows

“Just as a fish may be barely aware of the medium in which it lives and swims, so the microstructure of empty space could be far too complex for unaided human brains.”

Rees’s thesis could prove highly provocative to other scientists, especially those who have devoted their careers to understanding such mysteries.

He is well placed to understand the potential limitations of science. Besides heading Britain’s premier scientific organisation, he is also professor of cosmology at Cambridge University, where he is one of Britain’s most respected astrophysicists. He is currently delivering the annual BBC Reith lectures.

Rees’s warning, in a Sunday Times interview, is partly prompted by the failure of scientists working on the greatest problem of modern physics — to reconcile the forces that govern the behaviour of the cosmos, including planets and stars, with those that rule the so-called microworld of atoms and particles.

Rees points out how Albert Einstein was able to use mathematical theories developed in the early 19th century to build his 1915 theory of general relativity, describing how gravity controlled stars and planets.

Similarly, early 20th-century physicists such as Paul Dirac used “off-the-shelf” mathematical systems when devising quantum theory, which describes how nature works at a sub-atomic level.

The problem faced by their successors is that the two theories are deeply contradictory — and no one can find the mathematical tools needed to bring them together into a “unified theory”.

Rees points out that thousands of scientists have been working on this problem for several decades and are still nowhere near an answer.

“There are powerful reasons to suspect that space has a grainy structure but on a scale a trillion trillion times smaller than atoms. Solving how this might work is crucial for 21st-century science,” he said.

Rees believes the most promising idea is “string theory” which suggests that the particles that make up atoms are “woven from space itself”.

Such particles, he suggests, could exist in 10 or 11 dimensions. Humans, by contrast, can experience only the three spatial dimensions plus time.

He adds that there could even be other 3-D universes “embedded alongside ours”.

“In theory, there could be another entire universe less than a millimetre away from us, but we are oblivious to it because that millimetre is measured in a fourth spatial dimension and we are imprisoned in just three,” he said.

Such ideas sound extraordinary but Rees wonders if they can ever be proved. He suggests humanity may have reached the limits of comprehension.

“Some aspects of reality — a unified theory of physics or a full understanding of consciousness — might elude us simply because they’re beyond human brains, just as surely as Einstein’s ideas would baffle a chimpanzee,” he said.

Other scientists are more optimistic. Brian Cox, the BBC science presenter and physics professor who was awarded an OBE yesterday, said: “The idea that certain things are beyond us is quite a bleak one and history does show that we can eventually overcome the most difficult of problems.”

The mind boggles

The scientific mysteries that may be beyond us include

* Multiple dimensions — string theory suggests space has up to 11 dimensions, but mathematicians have struggled to prove this

* Consciousness — scientists suggest consciousness derives from chemical reactions in the brain but cannot explain how this might generate a sense of self

* Are we real? — Rees and other physicists have suggested the universe and humanity are part of a giant computer simulation as seen in the Matrix films.


Looks like a religion to me. Initiation ceremonies in which one sits and takes notes of fm's drivel, regurgitates it back at him in exams and end up looking like Katie Courich in her graduation kit ($2,000 inc video, framed photo and album), ordained, temples with reserved car parks for the big cheeses, apartheid in the washrooms and flashing lights, priests, bishops, archbishops, cardinals but no Pope (yet), and mumbo-jumbo incantations for which no vernacular translation yet exists.

The bloody invoices are real enough though. You don't need a ******* Hadron Collider to read the runes they contain.

And you don't even get to go to ******* heaven. No singing and dancing, no Church outings, no latest local scuttlebuck, no subsidised beer (well--you can't expect a brewery to charge the full rate to an establishment that runs a trip to Lourdes every year), no property stitch ups, no job opportunities, no rows of virgins singing Come Oh Ye Faithful accompanied by a swelling organ, no incense (never try that neat), no shitting in the Vicar's arms at the font and no tasteful ceremonies at the graveside to straighten your CV out a bit. None of that.

Why don't scientists get on with what we pay them for? Finding out how to stop beer giving you headaches would be a decent place to start. And stop it making women look attractive. The whole idea of the stag night is so the bridegroom is still pissed when he says "I do".

So if science is a religion intelligent design must be a science. It must take a lot of science to get us monkeys lined up like this. Stand before a cage full of monkeys and meditate how a thing like that was done. Or visit an open-air sanctuary for distressed monkeys. Dig Darwin.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 09:20 am
Quote:
Ideology vs. education
(By Massimo Pigliucci, The Wahington Post, Opinion Essay, June 14, 2010)

After years of attempting to dilute the teaching of science, the Texas Board of Education has at least temporarily succeeded in rewriting history itself to its liking. According to the newly approved standards in social studies, the United States of America is not a democracy anymore, it’s a constitutional republic (it is actually both), and the somewhat tarnished term “capitalism” (see recent Wall Street shenanigans) has been replaced by the more optimistic and certainly more patriotic sounding “free enterprise system.”

Other changes that Texas students will be exposed to include less emphasis on the civil rights movement and more on the Confederacy, and of course the “truth” that the United Nations is a questionable institution whose main effect is to undermine American sovereignty.

None of this, naturally, originates from recent scholarship in history, economics or political science, just like no serious criticism of evolution or boost for creationism -- another workhorse of past efforts by the Texas Board of Education -- has ever originated from scientific scholarship.

Rather, this is the latest disturbing result of a long and sustained effort by right wing fundamentalists to undermine public education. Of course, part of the problem is the very existence of school boards themselves, organs made up of people who often have no background in education -- let alone in science or history -- and who nonetheless end up dictating what millions of children will learn over the next several years (the Texas decision will likely affect the entire textbook industry in the United States, given how many books are sold in the Lone Star state).

Take for instance Texas School Board member Cynthia Dunbar, who is on record as saying that sending children to public schooling is like “throwing them in to the enemy's flames.” Accordingly, she home schooled her own children, but then one wanders what business does she have in ruining the education of millions of other children nationwide.

The answer comes from an article in the Guardian, where she provides a lucid, if frightful, explanation: “In Texas we have certain statutory obligations to promote patriotism and to promote the free enterprise system. There seems to have been a move away from a patriotic ideology. There seems to be a denial that this was a nation founded under God. We had to go back and make some corrections.” One can hardly ask for a more forthright admission of bias.

But it is the broader context of decisions like the Texas Board of Education’s that needs to be examined and understood. This is just the latest in a long history of culture wars between supporters of liberal arts education and conservative Christians whose positions are rooted in the sort of anti-intellectualism that has always pervaded American life and that has been so well characterized by Columbia University historian Richard Hofstadter.

The irony of this rear-guard action by conservatives is that they have learned the right sort of politically correct language, talking about uprooting the allegedly left-imposed “ideological bias” of public education, or about “teaching the controversy” (concerning creation-evolution) so that students can “freely” make up their minds about the supposed inconsistencies of evolutionary theory.

They even appropriated the phrase “critical thinking,” which could not possibly sound more oxymoronic when used to dismiss all modern scientific knowledge in favor of a 3,000-year old mythology invented by people who thought the earth was flat and the center of the universe.

Why do so many Americans fall for this sort of thinly veiled attack on science and reason? Part of the answer lies in the really bad job done by both scholars and the media at educating the public. Most academics will simply not take the time to write for the general public or talk to the media -- it won’t help them publish the technical papers and get the grants that will secure their tenure. And the media seem obsessed with controversy for its own sake.

Other than the always fashionable creation-evolution wars, recent examples include the ostensible connection between vaccines and autism (there is none), and of course the denial of planetary climate change. These are all issues about which there is a strong consensus within the relevant community of experts (biologists, medical researchers, and climate scientists, respectively), but you wouldn’t know it from the way the issues are presented by the media, or from the polls indicating between 40 percent to 50 percent of Americans reject the best findings of science.

Science itself, of course, is far from infallible. Even the best currently accepted theories, such as quantum mechanics and general relativity, may turn out to be at least partially wrong. This is inherent in the very nature of scientific research: the findings are always tentative, always open to revision because of new empirical data or new theoretical insights. It’s what makes science so fascinating and effective at what it does, discover better and better truths about how the world works.

But it is also what is difficult to convey to the public, especially when we consider the corrosive cocktail produced by mixing distrust of intellectual activities, appetite for controversy, and ideological certitude that the experts must be wrong because what they say undermines the American way of life, whatever that may mean.

Science education in the United States was at a peak during the Cold War, when the National Science Foundation designed a national science curriculum to insure that American students would no longer fall behind in science, engineering and math when compared to the rest of the world -- particularly the countries of the communist block. That effort was so successful that NSF’s curriculum was adopted in many other nations in the world, and helped science literacy on a planetary scale.

Today there is no cold war, but the fundamental reason for having an educated public remains the same: the very existence of democracy depends on it. I suggest that we need not just a national science and math curriculum, but a national curriculum of the humanities, which must include the study of philosophy, ethics, logic, and critical thinking (the latter three are really branches of the former).

As Noam Chomsky aptly put it: “citizens of the democratic societies should undertake a course in intellectual self-defense to protect themselves from manipulation and control, and to lay the basis for a more meaningful democracy.” The actions of the Texas Board of Education go into the diametrically opposite direction, and need to be reversed immediately.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:29 am
@wandeljw,
It's talk like that wande that some of us are trying to prevent becoming the normal mode of expression. You could beg questions of the questions you begged.

Can't Massimo get down to Texas and get elected? "need to be reversed immediately" indeed.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 06:29 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Science itself, of course, is far from infallible. Even the best currently accepted theories, such as quantum mechanics and general relativity, may turn out to be at least partially wrong. This is inherent in the very nature of scientific research: the findings are always tentative, always open to revision because of new empirical data or new theoretical insights.
Except for Global Warming and disproving God. Those are never in doubt as far as "science" is concerned.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 02:50 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
As Noam Chomsky aptly put it: “citizens of the democratic societies should undertake a course in intellectual self-defense to protect themselves from manipulation and control, and to lay the basis for a more meaningful democracy.”


This is not the first time you have quoted drivel of that nature before wande. And you have been challenged, as have others on the same matter, to explain to us how 301 million Americans, monkeys in your own estimation, would comport themselves after becoming free from manipulation and control which I think is what "feral" means.

Do you really think it is reasonable in a debate to assert something and then not only to duck a challenge to it but to go on, and on, repeating the assertion as if no challenge had been made or that it required no answer.

If someone asserted that he was Napoleon and strutted about with his hand in his jacket breast and refused to recognise his wife reminding him that he didn't speak French and had only a budgie under his command I do believe the men in white coats would be called in if he persisted.

So will you explain what the USA would be like when its citizens were all freed from manipulation and control.

If Massimo Pigliucci thinks Chomsky's fatuity "apt" I presume you also do or you wouldn't have quoted it. I hope you don't think Chomsky's remark "apt" simply because Chomsky said it and without any reference to what it means. That would be a religious piety. Blinding us with names of big cheeses. Or trying to which is an insult to our intelligence.

While you are at it you might also explain to us how this freeing the citizens of the USA from manipulation and control could be brought about and bearing in mind that the article you quoted is an attempt at manipulation and control as the last sentence of it proves conclusively.

Would it be too much trouble for you to answer these points before you proceed to bring us more articles which have manipulation and control as their secondary purpose. The primary purpose is, of course, to fill up the space between the ads from which the WP derives the bulk of its income.

I doubt I am the only one who would benefit from a definition of "meaningful democracy" in a context where it is the majority view that there is no meaning to anything.





farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 05:30 am
@spendius,
I believe that spendi needs some further training regarding the quotation function.

Dear spendi, if you have a disagreement with whatever is said in a quote, you are quarreling with the messanger and not the message.

You are funny when you get all pouty and pissed off at things in print and then begin shouting at someone who posts the quote.
We have a drunken hobo in downtown Philly who stands on the corner of 16th and JFK and curses at taxi cabs .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 05:55 am
@farmerman,
Meaningless again.

I am "quarreling" with the message, the messenger and the broadcaster of the message. You are supposed to answer my points rather than blathering on about my supposed failings.

I know that you need some further training in a whole host of matters. Adult debate, scientific method fatuity reduction. I'll leave what the priestesses of Isis might add for a more auspicious occasion.

I have cursed a few taxi cabs in my time I must admit.

Are you a supporter of Chomsky's meaningless statement that wande quoted. The last thing we want is the kids thinking stuff like that is anything other that high-sounding drivel.

I stand by every word of the Sunday Times quote about Lord Rees. I wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

Try another tack for ****'s sake old chap. You are making yourself look ridiculous. Answer the points. Do you want 301 million feral Americans free from any manipulation and control?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jun, 2010 08:16 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You are making yourself look ridiculous.
said the gorilla to the orangutan.

 

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