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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 06:04 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
the concept of God creating the universe in contrast to the scientific theory of evolution
Evolution is the process of the universe. People can believe God is responsible for starting the process if they so wish, but they can not refute reality. That is not God's intent for man, that is the intent of the man who stands out the front and loves to be a show boat on sunday.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:30 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Does that contradict what you said here
No not at all. In an intro section of earth sciences and biology, we give a "historical context" to what came before. We dont, however, teach Creationism as a process at work. Its not even a fine difference.

Quote:
They are doing it in your country that is why you are arguing this
Exactly, the anti-science ones on this thread are constantly puffing off about how the kids cant be taught and are incapable of being educated, so therefore , we should default to ID and Creationism. Thats not even a half assed thought, dont you agree?

Quote:
Your faith in the dogma of science is based on fear of your own mortality.
If that were so, what does science provide me for some comforting thought? If youre right (and you aint even close). then I oughta be a raving lunatic.

Ive been raised and trained by the best the Catholics had to offr. I became dissilusioned with religion as a baseless way to "buy" some kind of for spot for eternity.(Does your eternity not suffer from entropic disorder?)
No, its the religious who are making deals with burning bushes and HOLY fogbanks in order to believe that their energy field continues on timelessly . I really dont have any time for that kind of idiotic thinking.If it were even true, why do you spend any time in discussing science at all?
I can simply see that all the assumptions of naturalism seem to work out well while religions fall by the wayside of logic quite early in any kind of debate. Religious people always hunker back and start claiming, like you just did, that I am unable to deal with eternity. I, in response say , "Why not just worry about yourself. Ive never interjected anything into athread or any discussion that was started to comfort the religious mind. If you need that base of reasoning to get you through your days, GO FOR IT, just dont bore me to death with whatYOU think ails me. Cause you dont know me, or what makes me tick.
At least youre not spendi who has lately taken a pitiful path of petulence to gain attention. All I see are his layers of three and four contiguous posts > I dont read em anymore and hes already dead to me. I actually get a kick out of debateing you (even when you go all postal). You are. like our previous member Real Life, who, although at great odds with many, he at least had the passion and the manners to debate like a human being.
Youve come far pilgrim,SO Ill try to assist you to understand why I am a "lapsed CAtholic" agnostic and oblivious to my universal destiny, and how my love of chemistry and geology waaay predated my agnosticism.


When I was about 11 years old, I devoured the writings and tech papers of one, Roy Chapman Andrews. I totally bought his rather "Old Earth Creationist" beliefs. However, As I began to understand how extinctions and earth processes seemed to go hand in hand in evidence, I began thinking,"Hey we dont need no steenking deities" That was in the early 1960's when I was reading about J Tuzo Wilson and Isadore Seitz and their theories of continental drift and I did a science fair project about how evolution seemed to parallel the plate wandering( I didnt even get an honorable mention and I was sent to the rectors office in his separate building where I promptly recieved a severe whacking with his knuckle buster). That bit of fear on Br Mizkuyn's part fascinated me enough that I told my very religious parents (under whose roof I lived as a teen)"I aint goin to church anymorecause it dont make any sense and the whole CAtholic Church seems to be against science". SCience, to me, had waay more to offer than anything that Holy Father could cobble up.(of course the CAtholic Church has changed its story)
Religion is, to me, nothing more than an institution developed to keep order among the laity. Give em some bullshit ("a big lie so to speak") and a chain of command, and a code of behavior and 9 out of 10 people will tow the mark, safe in a belief that they are paying their way into an eternal Disney World.

BAah, you can keep all that. Give me a copy of NAture or Geological SOciety Bulletin and Im happy cause I can, if I wish, either refute the works being reported, or, go and repeat it for myself. There is waay less "appeal to authority" in the sciences because , well, everybody iwants to get their bones by showing how everyone previous is dead wrong. Science ultimately reaches some level of truth and undertsanding, whereas religions merely say "Shut up and dont question our authority"
When we look at ID, wheres the actual meat in the story. Its entire basis for being is predicated onsomesilly claim that:

1Life is waay to complicated to have arisen spontaneously. There must have been a "designer" at the helm.

and, in support of 1 is 2, which is

2If we look back far enough into an organisms microstructure, we will see that there exists "irreducible complexity" all of which underpins statement No 1.

IN ALL CASES, where IDers have invoked irreducible complexity as evidence of point 1. Theyve been debunked. As far as I know, several ID "Scientists" are out there trying to get down to the molecular level as their evidence. SO FAR NO BIG BREATHROUGHS on the "DESIGNER ORGANISM" front.

in fact, the IDers have been amazingly quiet in their search for design and , therefore, a designer (substitute the word GOD for the designer).

You know damn well that all realms of evolutionary science and evo/devo has been finding more and better evidence that refutes anything other than opportunistic developmet based on known laws of chemistry, physics, earth sciences, and biology.

Now asking for a space at the trough of education for any discipline or philosophy that isnt based upon equal levels of evidence, is just a load . WHenever the IDers (or the CReation REsearch Institutes) come up with anything that is POSITIVE to make their points of view, and is not just a feeble attempt at casting doubts on science, Im sure everyone will listen. AFter all, scientists are carnivores and love to be at the top of the feeding chain. Break just one measly rule of natural selection and there will be a whole army of scientists setting up camp to learn "the way of Creatiom or ID".

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 04:25 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
Rolling your next ciggie is voluntary.


Not according to definition No 1 of "Nature". Hence you don't "tend" to No 2. You agree with No 2. Possibly because you fear the loss of free will and a knowledge of right and wrong which No 1 entails. De Sade demonstrates that there's only No 1. I think Prof D.M.Armstrong does as well. It's a behaviourist, materialist position.

It seems that what you're having is some sort of free-ride oscillating between the two crucial definitions of Nature to suit whatever argument you happen to be making at the time. So are the others on here. Some of them daren't expose themselves to it. Hence Ignore. Hence no science. Hence posing with "a few words which glitter".

What I'm saying is that you are all kidding yourselves proceeding with this argument unless you believe one or the other. Neither can be proved.

Common sense leads to the No 2 definition but common sense leads to a flat earth as well. Or self flattery. No-one, except the headbangers, think they are happening spontaneously. What is taught in schools is then a result of a dynamic ever changing chemical reaction between well evolved microbes subjected to a range of forces some of which are astrological. Embracing the Chaos so to speak. That's resisted even after death with wills and funerals and memorials in stone. And set aside in Soylent Green. And mass graves.

Following No 1 right conduct and wrong conduct cannot be distinguished. The consequences of either being unpredictable. Predictions being in the occult realm.

With No 2, which I know you all believe, Nature denotes not the whole course of phenomena but only the spontaneous course which evolution theory describes. Melbourne Cup winners and Cruft's top dogs being un-natural along with much else in the same line. Farming say. Nothing to do with Nature. Breathing under water or in space is the same. So also breathing exercises.

As Art, used to mean anything artificial, caused by man's interference with the Nature of definition No 1, only conceded by common sense btw, is a measure of "progress" it follows that the more there is of it the less reverence there is for a Creator. Man becomes creator. And that is what the "clowns" and the "IDiots" reject.

But even allowing No 2 there is still the problem of what form man's interference with Nature will take. The anti-IDer's blithe assumption that his form of the interference is the right one, besides being suspected of personal interest, getting back to No 1 for a moment, is a belief and in the occult realm which then leaves him promoting one occult belief at the expense of other occult beliefs.

Hence--back to consequences as I have been saying for six years, and best guesses. Anybody who refuses to debate consequences is a dilettante and having an emotional thrum and is in the same bag as the most rabid evangelical.

Saying HELL YES to the teaching of evolution is a guess. A natural event (No 1) which ruined crops worldwide would make it look silly and nothing but an affectation of a complacent city dweller who is habituated to control mechanisms and can't think outside of them. Unlike the aboriginals.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:38 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Exactly, the anti-science ones on this thread are constantly puffing off about how the kids cant be taught and are incapable of being educated, so therefore , we should default to ID and Creationism. Thats not even a half assed thought, dont you agree?


The only anti-science ones on this thread are the anti-IDers. Asserting that you are pro-science, when you pile up evidence that you are not, is a waste of time.

That very statement is anti-science. How can kids avoid being educated. The whole paragraph is pure drivel so how Io can be expected to agree with it is incomprehensible. It's sentimental. It is also a bare-assed lie.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 06:04 am
@farmerman,
So a priest did whack you eh?

Quote:
You know damn well that all realms of evolutionary science and evo/devo has been finding more and better evidence that refutes anything other than opportunistic developmet based on known laws of chemistry, physics, earth sciences, and biology.


That's a form of the No 1 definition of Nature. It's obviously subversive of the social order. It ends in "might is right". It depends on the reader not following the logic to that conclusion. And it's a respectable argument. Show me someone who knows how to live it.

It even renders debate absurd.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 09:55 am
Quote:
Publishing experts: Other states unlikely to use Texas textbooks
(The Associated Press, June 2, 2010)

Pop quiz: Does the school curriculum adopted in Texas really wind up in textbooks nationwide? If you answered yes, you might get a failing grade.

As the second-largest purchaser of textbooks behind California, the Lone Star State has historically wielded enormous clout in deciding what material appears in classrooms across the country. That's why the Texas State Board of Education's recent decision to adopt new social studies standards was closely watched far beyond the state.

Critics fear the new, more conservative curriculum in Texas will spread elsewhere. But publishing experts say those concerns are overblown.

"It's easier nowadays to create one edition for one situation and a different edition for another situation," said Bob Resnick, founder of Education Market Research, based in New York. "I don't believe the Texas curriculum will spread anyplace else."

After months of discussion, the Texas board on May 21 approved placing greater emphasis on the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers and teaching schoolchildren that the words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution.

In Washington, Education Secretary Arne Duncan called the process a case of politicians deciding curriculum. California lawmakers went a step further, proposing that education officials there comb through textbooks to ensure that Texas material isn't incorporated into California’s history curriculum.

This year, as states weigh which textbooks to buy, many "are going to be asking whether this was the book that went to Texas," said Kathy Mickey, an analyst at Simba Information, a market-research firm.

The influence of Texas on the $7 billion U.S. textbook market has steadily weakened.

Technology has made it easier and more affordable for publishers to tailor textbooks to different standards. That's especially true in the 20 other states like Texas where education boards approve textbooks for statewide use.

Substitutions are an easy fix. And publishers won't gamble on incorporating one state's controversial curriculum into a one-size-fits-all product for other markets, said Jay Diskey, executive director of the schools division of the Association of American Publishers.

Diskey's group is the trade group for Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, McGraw-Hill and Pearson Education Inc., which together publish more than 75% of the nation's K-12 textbooks.

"Why would we walk in with stuff that we know might be rejected and knock us out of a business opportunity?" Diskey said.

Even Idaho, which has just 279,000 students in public schools, can sometimes command changes from publishers as easily as Texas does for its 4.8 million schoolchildren.

"Some publishers have added content to their textbooks or other material to make sure they meet Idaho standards," said Melissa McGrath, spokeswoman for Idaho's Department of Education.

Other states aren't so sure of being beyond Texas' shadow.

In Washington state, which has about 1 million public school students, a spokesman for the state superintendent of public instruction said some districts may be using Texas textbooks.

The superintendent has noted that if all 50 states were to approve national education standards, appropriate textbooks would be easier to find. Only two states have balked at those standards " Alaska and Texas.

As for Texas schools, local districts can choose textbooks that the state board deems "nonconforming," but those books must still contain at least 50% of the adopted curriculum.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 11:24 am
@wandeljw,
The big question wande is the effect of the text books on the kids. There seems to be a general assumption that the kids are going to read the bloody things and retain it all in their little noggins. An assumption, from my experience as a kid and as a teacher, which is so wide of the mark that anybody assuming it is either off his or her rocker or is playing adult power games.

Or has the $7 billion market uppermost in the mind.

Your constant error is this assumption that education can be discussed in these wildly abstract terms paying no attention to the classroom, the school, the parents, the community and the society into which the kids are going to take their place. Like Setanta discusses war. As if no humans are involved.

fm is looking to produce 300 million geologists.

The lengths some people will go to reinforce their atheism is staggering. What's it to you wande what's in the sodding textbooks. Teachers teach--not textbooks.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:17 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If that were so, what does science provide me for some comforting thought?
I explained that...did you read it ?
Quote:
If youre right (and you aint even close). then I oughta be a raving lunatic.
You have completely exagerated the point. Though you may very well have several personality disorders, there would be nothing close to a "raving lunatic" that would be obvious through this medium.
Quote:
Ive been raised and trained by the best the Catholics had to offr.
Same here. The Franciscans.
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I became dissilusioned with religion as a baseless way to "buy" some kind of for spot for eternity
I became disillusioned with how religion was withheld to your level of intelligence. To me it should be a completely honest and open process, warts and all.
Quote:
Does your eternity not suffer from entropic disorder?
Entropy if it exists, is a part of this universe.
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I really dont have any time for that kind of idiotic thinking.
You attack when you are afraid.
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I can simply see that all the assumptions of naturalism seem to work out well while religions fall by the wayside of logic quite early in any kind of debate.
Rubbish. This is in your mind.
Quote:
I am unable to deal with eternity.
Your knowledge of the human mind and how it works has been underwhelming in the past. I pointed out that people do live in one stage of death more than others, and that is denial. To some, this makes them religious. To others, it makes them non-religious....the same cause but different responses.
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even when you go all postal
I respond to how I am treated. Your fan base here have accepted you and rally when you are threatened. This is instinctive and is neither right nor wrong on their part.
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Youve come far pilgrim
Your condescending attitude is not appreciated.
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"Shut up and dont question our authority"
You have raised a point that is worthy of a very lengthy debate in itself, and I certainly agree religion has that to answer for.
Quote:
Now asking for a space at the trough of education for any discipline or philosophy that isnt based upon equal levels of evidence
As I have stated before many times, there is nothing wrong with teaching religious morality and science. They are two different fields. Your argument seems to be if it is not a physical science then it cant be taught. There are many scientific style disciplines that intersect at religion. Leave out creationism and religion is a worthy endeavour. Do you honestly think the world is like you, capable of happily living without religion ? Why do you advocate your methodology as the only one ? Fear of loneliness ?
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:35 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Hence you don't "tend" to No 2. You agree with No 2.
Allow me to say what I agree with.
Quote:
Possibly because you fear the loss of free will and a knowledge of right and wrong which No 1 entails.
I would have said most probably.

Quote:
Following No 1 right conduct and wrong conduct cannot be distinguished.
They can be distinguished based on one's perspective and relevance. A murder on the other side of the world is hardly relevant to me. Using No 1, a murder is only wrong when it affects me personally, as the murder of a loved one or it scares me into changing my behaviour.
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With No 2, which I know you all believe, Nature denotes not the whole course of phenomena but only the spontaneous course which evolution theory describes.
As I said before it is possible to have no free will in some areas and have complete freedom of choice in others.
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a belief and in the occult realm which then leaves him promoting one occult belief at the expense of other occult beliefs.
I can agree with that. It is certainly how the mind works according to my understanding.
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Saying HELL YES to the teaching of evolution is a guess.
In your opinion it is a guess. At worst, it is my guess and as such is correct for me.
Quote:
A natural event (No 1) which ruined crops worldwide would make it look silly and nothing but an affectation of a complacent city dweller who is habituated to control mechanisms and can't think outside of them. Unlike the aboriginals.
I dont understand your point.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 05:38 pm
@wandeljw,
Some of the stuff you post is a little alarming. I repeat my call for the USA to get a national curriculum. Doesnt anyone move imbetween states and have a problem with all this for their kids ?
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:10 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
History provides another avenue to the understanding of how science works. Science and its discoveries are a source of historical facts and artefacts. The strand, Science as human endeavour, is an important link to historical facts and processes. It is important that students come to realise that much of the growth of science and technology has resulted from the gradual accumulation of knowledge over many centuries. Students should learn that all sorts of people, not only great scientists but people like themselves, have done and continue to do science. Historical case studies of science, mathematics and technology and design in the early Egyptian, Greek, Chinese, Arabic and Indigenous Australian cultures extending to modern times, will help students understand the contributions of people from around the world.
Thats the ACARA statement (sec 6.nn) about the function of history in science. That is hardly the teaching of Creationism in your curricula Ionus. It is, instead, a survey of the rise and decline of historical approaches to science that <I presume, inclusded things like Creationism as a fact and the 19th century foundation from which "Intelligent Design" burst forth in San Francisco in the early 1990's.
However, Australias entire science and history approach seems more "feel good" than even ours in the various states. Too much Self esteem coaching (IMHO) gets in the way of good scholarship because it conveys a belief that, any answer, no matter how it deviates from the generally accepted correct one, is worth consideration. THATS just a waste of our teachers and students time..

I originally was a fan of national curricula. However, reading the above, where several states seem to hint that they use Texas asa worthy example of "what not to do" and reading the "national standards "of Australia, Im now not so sure where my vote lies.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:18 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
That is hardly the teaching of Creationism in your curricula Ionus.
Why do you keep going on about creationism ? I dont want it taught in schools at all. Havent you read anything Ive said ?
Quote:
Too much Self esteem coaching (IMHO) gets in the way of good scholarship because iot conveys a belief that, any answer, no matter how it deviates from the generally accepted correct one, is worth consideration.
Or it interferes with the over-inflated ego of the lecturer. I have worked alongside those people and they are insecure failures in the real world. Without students to boss around they are pathetic and cowardly. The problem is you can hardly be totally right and powerful if there are alternatives. Dont teach them to think, teach them to obey you ....right ?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 08:32 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Some of the stuff you post is a little alarming. I repeat my call for the USA to get a national curriculum. Doesnt anyone move imbetween states and have a problem with all this for their kids ?


Education in the United States will probably always be under the jurisidiction of state and local government. However, the federal government provides funding for education and can require local governments to comply with a national standard in order to receive federal funds.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 09:05 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
However, the federal government provides funding for education and can require local governments to comply with a national standard in order to receive federal funds.
Lets hope that works because it cant continue with the religious radicals trying to determine what is science.
farmerman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 03:52 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
The problem is you can hardly be totally right and powerful if there are alternatives. Dont teach them to think, teach them to obey you ....right
The difference between good teaching and bad teaching is the subordination of ones "ego" to the needs of the class and subject. I wouldnt expect you to understand that.

Quote:
Why do you keep going on about creationism ? I dont want it taught in schools at all. Havent you read anything Ive said ?
You brought it up in the context of teaching religion in classes and I have been consistent about what we dont include as science. I stated that your own standards recognize the "history" of science in the introductory sections of a science curriculum. I would want the kids to recognize that science is the summary product of all thats gone on before "warts and all" (to quote you).
That does not conflict with anything that the US Constitution forbids. Rather, it adds a dimension of completeness to the subject. After all,Avisenna coined a term "Viz Plastica" that hung around for almost 700 years in early education .I dont agree that everything should be just erased if it offends your delicate sensibilities. RAther, Id like to see that kids get as much information about the subjects at hand. Ignoring Creationism is just as dumb as teaching it as a "valid Theory" to be used in the science curriculum itself.

gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 05:36 am
Here's the latest challenge to the teaching of evolution, use your own judgment as to how likely something like the following is to just sort of happen or "evolve":

http://creationsafaris.com/crev201005.htm

Breakthrough: Second Genetic Code Revealed 05/06/2010
May 06, 2010 " It’s sometimes difficult to assess the impact of a scientific paper when it is first published, but one that came out on the cover of Nature today has potential to equal the discovery of the genetic code. The leading science journal reported the discovery of a second genetic code " the “code within the code” " that has just been cracked by molecular biologists and computer scientists. Moreover, they used information technology " not evolutionary theory " to figure it out.
The new code is called the Splicing Code. It lives embedded within the DNA. It directs the primary genetic code, in very complex but now predictable ways, how and when to assemble genes and regulatory elements. Cracking this code-within-a-code is helping elucidate several long-standing mysteries about genetics that emerged from the Human Genome Project: Why are there only 20,000 genes for an organism as complex as a human being? (Scientists had expected far more.) Why are genes broken up into segments (called exons), separated by non-coding elements (called introns), and then spliced together after transcription? And why are genes turned on in some cells and tissues, but not in others? For two decades molecular biologists have been trying to figure out the mechanisms of genetic regulation. This important paper represents a milestone in understanding what goes on. It doesn’t answer all the questions, but it shows that an inner code exists " a communication system that can be deciphered so clearly, that the scientists could predict what the genome would do in certain situations with uncanny accuracy.
Imagine hearing an orchestra in an adjacent room. You open the door and look inside, and find just three or four musicians producing all that sound. That’s what co-discoverer Brendan Frey said said the human genome is like. We could only find 20,000 genes, but we knew that a vast array of protein products and regulatory elements were being produced. How? One method is alternative splicing. Different exons (gene elements) can be assembled together in different ways. “For example, three neurexin genes can generate over 3,000 genetic messages that help control the wiring of the brain,” Frey said. The paper explains right off the bat that 95% of our genes are known to have alternative splicing, and in most cases, the transcripts are expressed differently in different cell and tissue types. Something must control how those thousands of combinations are assembled and expressed. That’s the job of the Splicing Code.
Readers wanting a quick overview can read the Science Daily article, “Researchers Crack ‘Splicing Code,’ Solve a Mystery Underlying Biological Complexity.” It says, “Researchers at the University of Toronto have discovered a fundamentally new view of how living cells use a limited number of genes to generate enormously complex organs such as the brain.” In Nature itself, Heidi Ledford led off with an article called “The code within the code.”1 Tejedor and Valcárcel followed with “Gene regulation: Breaking the second genetic code.2 Then the main dish was the paper by the University of Toronto Team led by Benjamin J. Blencowe and Brendan J. Frey, “Deciphering the splicing code.”3
The paper is a triumph of information science that sounds reminiscent of the days of the World War II codebreakers. Their methods included algebra, geometry, probability theory, vector calculus, information theory, code optimization, and other advanced methods. One thing they had no need of was evolutionary theory, which was never mentioned in the paper.4 Their abstract reverberates with the dramatic tension of a rousing overture:

Here we describe the assembly of a ‘splicing code’, which uses combinations of hundreds of RNA features to predict tissue-dependent changes in alternative splicing for thousands of exons. The code determines new classes of splicing patterns, identifies distinct regulatory programs in different tissues, and identifies mutation-verified regulatory sequences. Widespread regulatory strategies are revealed, including the use of unexpectedly large combinations of features, the establishment of low exon inclusion levels that are overcome by features in specific tissues, the appearance of features deeper into introns than previously appreciated, and the modulation of splice variant levels by transcript structure characteristics. The code detected a class of exons whose inclusion silences expression in adult tissues by activating nonsense-mediated messenger RNA decay, but whose exclusion promotes expression during embryogenesis. The code facilitates the discovery and detailed characterization of regulated alternative splicing events on a genome-wide scale.

The interdisciplinary team that cracked the code consists of specialists from the Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering as well as the Department of Molecular Genetics " and Frey works for Microsoft Research. Like the codebreakers of old, Frey and Barash developed “a new computer-assisted biological analysis method that finds ‘codewords’ hidden within the genome.” Taking vast amounts of data generated by the molecular geneticists, the group “reverse-engineered” the splicing code until they could predict how it would act. Once they got a handle on it, they tested it with mutations, and watched exons get inserted or deleted as they predicted. They found that the code can even cause tissue-specific changes, or act differently when the mouse is an embryo or an adult. One gene, Xpo4, is implicated in cancer; they noted that “These findings support the conclusion that Xpo4 expression must be tightly controlled such that it is active during embryogenesis but downregulated in adult tissues, to avoid possible deleterious consequences including oncogenesis” (cancer). It appears they were quite astonished at the level of control they were witnessing. Intentionally or not, Frey used the language of intelligent design " not that of random variation and selection " as the key to their approach: “Understanding a complex biological system is like understanding a complex electronic circuit.”
Heidi Ledford said that the apparent simplicity of the Watson-Crick genetic code, with its four bases, triplet codons, 20 amino acids and 64 DNA “words” " conceals a universe of complexity beneath the surface.1 The Splicing Code-within-the-code is much more complex:

But between DNA and proteins comes RNA, and an expanding realm of complexity. RNA is a shape-shifter, sometimes carrying genetic messages and sometimes regulating them, adopting a multitude of structures that can affect its function. In a paper published in this issue (see page 53), a team of researchers led by Benjamin Blencowe and Brendan Frey of the University of Toronto in Ontario, Canada, reports the first attempt to define a second genetic code: one that predicts how segments of messenger RNA transcribed from a given gene can be mixed and matched to yield multiple products in different tissues, a process called alternative splicing. This time there is no simple table " in its place are algorithms that combine more than 200 different features of DNA with predictions of RNA structure.

The work highlights the rapid progress that computational methods have made in modelling the RNA landscape. In addition to understanding alternative splicing, informatics is helping researchers to predict RNA structures, and to identify the targets of small regulatory snippets of RNA that do not encode protein. “It’s an exciting time,” says Christopher Burge, a computational biologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge. “There's going to be a lot of progress in the next few years.”

Informatics " computational biology " algorithms and codes " such concepts were never a part of Darwin’s vocabulary as he developed his theory. Mendel had a vastly oversimplified computational model of how traits could be sorted out during inheritance, but even then, the idea that traits were encoded awaited discovery till 1953. Now we see that the original genetic code is itself subject to an even more complex embedded code. These are revolutionary ideas. And there are indications of even further levels of control. For instance, RNA and proteins have a three-dimensional structure, Ledford reminds us. The functions of the molecules can change when the shape changes. Something must control the folding so that the 3-D structure performs as required for function. And then the access to genes appears to be regulated by another code, the histone code, that is encoded by molecular markers or “tails” on the histone proteins that serve as nuclei for DNA coiling and supercoiling. Ledford spoke of an “ongoing renaissance in RNA informatics” characterizing our time.
Tejedor and Valcárcel agreed with the complexity concealed by the simplicity.2 “At face value, it all sounds simple: DNA makes RNA, which then makes protein,” they began. “But the reality is much more complex.” We learned in the 1950s that the basic genetic code is shared by all living organisms from bacteria to humans. But it soon became apparent that there was a bizarre, counter-intuitive feature in complex organisms (eukaryotes): their genomes were interrupted by introns that had to be snipped out so that the exons could be spliced together. Why? Now the fog is lifting: “An advantage of this mechanism is that it allows different cells to choose alternative means of pre-mRNA splicing and thus generates diverse messages from a single gene,” they explained. “The variant mRNAs can then encode different proteins with distinct functions.” You get more information out of less code " provided you have a code-within-the-code that knows how to do it.
What makes cracking the splicing code so difficult is that the factors controlling what exons get assembled is determined by multiple factors: sequences adjacent to the exon boundaries, sequences in the exons, sequences in the introns, and regulatory factors that either assist or inhibit the splicing machinery. Not only that, “the effects of a particular sequence or factor can vary depending on its location relative to the intron"exon boundaries or other regulatory motifs,” Tejedor and Valcárcel explained. “ The challenge, therefore, is to compute the algebra of a myriad of sequence motifs, and the mutual relationships between the regulatory factors that recognize them, to predict tissue-specific splicing.”
To solve the puzzle, the team fed the computer huge amounts of data on RNA sequences and the conditions under which they formed. “The computer was then asked to identify the combination of features that could best explain the experimentally determined tissue-specific selection of exons.” In other words, they reverse-engineered the code. Like WWII codebreakers, once they knew the algorithm, they could make predictions: “It correctly identified alternative exons, and predicted their differential regulation between pairs of tissue types with considerable accuracy.” And like a good scientific theory, the discovery led to new insights: “This allows reinterpretation of the function of previously defined regulatory motifs and suggests previously unknown properties of known regulators as well as unexpected functional links between them,” they said. “For instance, the code inferred that the inclusion of exons that lead to truncated proteins is a common mechanism of gene-expression control during the transition between embryonic and adult tissues.”
Tejedor and Valcárcel see the publication of the paper as an important first step: “revealing the first piece of a much larger Rosetta Stone required to interpret the alternative messages of our genomes.” Future work will undoubtedly improve our knowledge of this new code, they said. In their ending, they referred to evolution briefly in a curious way: not to say that evolution produced these codes, but that progress will require understanding how codes interact. Another surprising possibility is that the degree of conservation seen so far raises the possibility of “species-specific codes” "

The code is likely to work in a cell-autonomous manner and, consequently, may need to account for more than 200 cell types in mammals. It will also have to deal with the extensive diversity of alternative-splicing patterns beyond simple decisions of single exon inclusion or skipping. The limited evolutionary conservation of alternative-splicing regulation (estimated to be around 20% between humans and mice) opens up the question of species-specific codes. Moreover, coupling between RNA processing and gene transcription influences alternative splicing, and recent data implicate the packing of DNA with histone proteins and histone covalent modifications " the epigenetic code " in the regulation of splicing. The interplay between the histone and the splicing codes will therefore need to be accurately formulated in future approaches. The same applies to the still poorly understood influence of complex RNA structures on alternative splicing.

Codes, codes, and more codes. The near silence about Darwinism in any of these papers suggests that old-school evolutionary theorists will have a lot to ponder after reading these papers. Meanwhile, those excited about the biology of codes will be on the cutting edge. They can play with a cool web tool the codebreakers created to stimulate further research. It can be found at the University of Toronto site, called WASP " “Website for Alternative Splicing Prediction.” Visitors will look in vain for anything about evolution here, despite the old maxim that nothing in biology makes sense without it. A new version for the 2010s might read, “Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of informatics.” 1. Heidi Ledford, “The code within the code,” Nature 465, 16-17 (06 May 2010) | doi:10.1038/465016a.
2. J. Ramón Tejedor and Juan Valcárcel, “Gene regulation: Breaking the second genetic code,” Nature 465, 44-46 (06 May 2010) | doi:10.1038/465045a.
3. Yoseph Barash, John A. Calarco, Weijun Gao, Qun Pan, Xinchen Wang, Ofer Shai, Benjamin J. Blencowe and Brendan J. Frey, “Deciphering the splicing code,” Nature 465, 53-59 (06 May 2010) | doi:10.1038/nature09000.
4. “Conservation” information is mentioned several times, but refers only to a measure of sequence similarity between species, e.g., between mice and human genomes. Conservation does not have evolutionary significance without begging the question of evolution.
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 05:54 am
@wandeljw,
wandel's source, the AP wrote:
The influence of Texas on the $7 billion U.S. textbook market has steadily weakened.


That's a good thing to read.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 07:04 am
@gungasnake,
Darwin always was for simpletons gunga. It's for people who jump onto simple explanations presented in a simple enough way for simpletons to think they understand and thus imagine themselves to be scientists.

And from little acorns mighty oak trees grow which then start braying assertions that American science is going down the tube if it doesn't follow their simple ideas which are, in essence, nothing but a prop for their self-esteem and, as such, completely unsuitable for influencing a culture's educational policy. I would throw every Darwinist out of education without exception. If somebody suggested court orders to stop them going within a mile of anybody under 40 I would not object. The very idea that Darwinism is the foundation of biology is laughable. And dangerous.

Quote:
Something must control how those thousands of combinations are assembled and expressed.


To what extent do you think astrological events are involved in such control?

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 07:06 am
@Ionus,
Why do you think most anti-IDers have me on Ignore Io?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 09:13 am
UPDATE ON OHIO SCIENCE TEACHER HEARINGS
Quote:
Freshwater hearing resumes
(By Pamela Schehl, Mount Vernon News, June 3, 2010)

MOUNT VERNON " In recess since April 30, the John Freshwater contract termination hearing resumed Tuesday.

Freshwater, a Mount Vernon Middle School science teacher currently suspended without pay, is contesting the school board’s decision to consider firing him for alleged professional misconduct. The board said the misconduct includes causing physical harm to a student during a science experiment, overstepping his bounds as a monitor/advisor of the Fellowship For Christian Athletes, promoting particular religious beliefs in the classroom while denigrating others and being insubordinate in refusing to follow directives from the school administration.

Kelly Hamilton, Freshwater’s attorney, called Michael Molnar as the first witness on Tuesday. Molnar is an elementary school principal at Hilltop Elementary in the Beachwood school district. He has also served as a principal elsewhere and has classroom teaching experience.

Based on that experience, as well as his educational background, Hamilton had Molnar talk about 15 documents Hamilton had sent Molnar to review. Molnar commented on the state’s law requiring the mandatory reporting of suspected child abuse and related what he would have done if a parent had shown him photos similar to those introduced in evidence in this case. He said he would have immediately interviewed the student, teacher and the student’s parents, and would have contacted Knox County Children Services.

Molnar also discussed the district’s policies and procedures in regard to insubordination. He said an employee has the right to refuse to comply with an unlawful order.

With regard to a religious display, Molnar said the context and purpose of the items displayed would be factors in determining if it is in fact a religious display. He said one would have to talk with the items’ owner to determine the context and purpose.

Upon cross-examination by the school board’s lawyer, David Millstone, Molnar said he did not believe that directing someone to put his or her Bible out of sight of students was an unlawful order.

“If someone announces ‘I have been told to do something, but I’m not going to do it,’ would that be insubordination?” asked Millstone.

“It could be determined to be, “ Molnar replied.

Molnar also, upon redirect by Hamilton, said he believes it would be appropriate for FCA materials to be in a public classroom if that’s where the meetings are held.

James Patrick Johnston was next on the stand as a witness in a dual capacity. The first related to his interview of Freshwater on a Christian radio talk show on April 12, 2009; the second concerned Johnston’s medical expertise as a pediatric physician in Dresden.

The board’s medical expert was David Levy, chairman of emergency medicine at the St. Elizabeth Health Center in Youngstown. Levy testified on Oct. 30, 2008, that the photographs of the alleged injury to a student were consistent with what an electrical burn would look like.

Shown those photographs, Johnston speculated the marks could be from poison ivy or a scrape of some sort. He also talked about allergies and sensitive skin. He said he doubted the pictures show a second-degree burn, as that would have been “excruciating” and that he would have prescribed narcotic pain relievers in a similar case. Johnston further stated that, in his opinion, if it were second-degree burns, the “parents were negligent in not taking the child to a doctor.”

Former school board member Ian Watson was the final witness for the day. Several questions posed by Hamilton were disallowed by hearing referee Lee Shepherd " Millstone objected to several on the basis of attorney-client privilege and law concerning executive sessions.

Watson said he had no contact with personnel from HR on Call, the investigating firm hired by the board to look into allegations against Freshwater. Watson testified he had a number of conversations with a student’s father regarding his son being burned by Freshwater in class, about religious information in Freshwater’s classroom, about Freshwater’s leadership of the FCA, and about some of the questions Freshwater allegedly asked his son and about a certain extra credit assignment.

Answering questions from Hamilton, Watson said he applied a high-frequency device, referred to in the hearing as a Tesla coil, to his own arm in order to determine if the device would make a mark, as the student claimed, or would not make a mark, as Freshwater claimed.

Asked why Freshwater could be charged with using a Tesla coil when Watson did so himself, Watson told Hamilton, “It’s different. I’m an economist. He’s a science teacher.”

Hamilton queried Watson about newspaper articles from April 2008, his definition of insubordination and whether he had contacted the American Civil Liberties Union regarding the allegations relating to religion. Watson said he had, adding that the ACLU viewpoint would not have changed his opinion regarding the Bible on Freshwater’s desk.

Watson was expected to resume the stand when the hearing reconvened at 9 this morning.

Although dealing with similar issues, Freshwater-related civil suits being heard in federal court are separate from the contract termination proceedings.
 

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