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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 09:50 am
Quote:
Win Ben Stein's mind
(By Roger Ebert, The Chicago Sun-Times, December 3, 2008)
I've been accused of refusing to review Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled," a defense of Creationism, because of my belief in the theory of evolution. Here is my review.
Ben Stein, you hosted a TV show on which you gave away money. Imagine that I have created a special edition of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" just for you. Ben, you've answered all the earlier questions correctly, and now you're up for the $1 million prize. It involves an explanation for the evolution of life on this planet. You have already exercised your option to throw away two of the wrong answers. Now you are faced with two choices: (A) Darwin's Theory of Evolution, or (B) Intelligent Design.
Because this is a special edition of the program, you can use a Hotline to telephone every scientist on Earth who has an opinion on this question. You discover that 99.975 of them agree on the answer (A). A million bucks hangs in the balance. The clock is ticking. You could use the money. Which do you choose? You, a firm believer in the Constitution, are not intimidated and exercise your freedom of speech. You choose (B).
Squaaawk!!! The klaxon horn sounds. You have lost. Outraged, you file suit against the program, charging it is biased and has denied a hearing for your belief. Your suit argues that the "correct" answer was chosen because of a prejudice against the theory of Intelligent Design, despite the fact that .025 of all scientists support it. You call for (B) to be discussed in schools as an alternative theory to (A).
Your rights have been violated. You're at wit's end. You think perhaps the field of Indie Documentaries offers you hope. You accept a position at the Institute of Undocumented Documentaries in Dallas, Texas. This Institute teaches that the rules of the "$64,000 Question" are the only valid game show rules. All later game shows must follow them literally. The "$64,000 Question" came into existence in 1955. False evidence for earlier game shows has been refuted by scientists at the Institute.
You look for a documentary subject. You know you cannot hope to find backing from the Main Stream Media, because they all fear reprisals from the powerful Game Show Establishment. You seek a cause that parallels your own dilemma, and also illustrates an offense against the Freedom of Speech. Your attention falls on the persecution of Intelligent Design advocates like you, who have been banished from Main Stream Academia.
This looks like your ideal subject. But where can you find financing for such a documentary? You discover a small, promising production company named Premise Media. You like the sound of that word premise. It sounds like a plausible alternative to the word theory. To confirm this, you look both up in your dictionary:
premise noun. A previous statement or proposition from which another is inferred or follows as a conclusion: if the premise is true, then the conclusion must be true. e.g., if God exists, then he created everything.
theory noun. A system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained. e.g., Darwin's theory of evolution.
Your point exactly! You do a web search for Premise Media. Its co-founder, Walt Ruloff, has observed, "the scientific and academic communities were deeply resistant to innovation, in this case innovation that might revise Darwin's theory that random mutation and natural selection drive all variation in life forms." You could not agree more. Darwin's theory has been around for 150 years, and is stubbornly entrenched. This is a time for innovation, for drawing on fresh theories that life and the universe were intelligently created in recent times, perhaps within the last 10,000 years. How to account for dinosaur fossils? Obviously, dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as human beings.
Ben Stein, you are growing more excited. You continue your research into Premise Media. Its CEO, A. Logan Craft, once observed that questions about the origin of Earth and its life forms "are answered very differently by secularists and people who hold religious beliefs." Can you believe your eyes? Craft has depended upon one of your own favorite logical practices, the principle of the excluded middle! This is too good to be true.
By his premise no secularists believe in Intelligent Design, and no people with religious beliefs subscribe to Darwin's theory. If there are people with religious beliefs who agree with Darwin (Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Mormons, Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists, for example) they are mistaken because they do not subscribe to A. Logan Craft's religious beliefs.
He is certainly right about secularists. You think it's a shame he's right, because then the 1968 Supreme Court decision was correct, and Tennessee's anti-evolution law was "an attempt to blot out a particular theory because of its supposed conflict with the Biblical account, taken literally." Therefore, according to the Court, ID was a religious belief and did not belong in a science classroom but in a theology classroom. This clearly would be wrong, because the new approach to teaching ID in schools omits any reference whatsoever to religion. It depends entirely on the findings of scientists who are well-respected within A. Logan Craft's religious tradition. These scientists of course are perfectly free to be secularists, although almost every single one seems to be a fundamentalist Christian. This is America.
You meet with the people at Premise Media. It is a meeting of the minds. At a pitch meeting, they are receptive to your ideas, although with the proviso that you should change the proposed title of your film, "From Darwin to Hitler," because that might limit the market to those who had heard of neither, or only one.
You and Premise Media agreed that the case for ID had not always been argued very well in the past. For example, a photograph of a human footprint overlapping a dinosaur track (proof that Man walked the Earth side by side with dinosaurs) has been questioned by secularists, who say the footprint looks more like the print of a running shoe. If you studied it carefully, it could be argued that they had a point, although skewed by their secularist bias.
What was needed was better use of photographic evidence. For example, in your film, "eXpelled: no intelligence allowed," you document the story of Guillermo Gonzales, who was denied tenure at Iowa State because of his personal premises, after 400 professors signed a petition opposing "all attempts to represent Intelligent Design as a scientific endeavor." Gonzales was forced to accept employment at Grove City College, an evangelical Christian school in Grove City, Pennsylvania.
In documenting the secularist hysteria and outrage against Gonzales, you use more convincing photographic evidence than the footprint. For example, you use footage showing a newsstand selling copies of the New York Post with this front page headline:
CRISIS:
1. Creationist on the loose
2. Support the Petition
3.Stop Gonzales

The typographical design of the New York Post logo, the cars and store signs in the background, and the clothing of the people in the street establish without question that this footage was filmed in the late 1940s. Gonzales was born in 1963. So your film would prove beyond doubt that his enemies walked the Earth with his parents.
Gonzales, trained as an astronomer, cited as proof of Intelligent Design that "Earth is in a prime location for observing the universe." Thus he refutes the theory of elitist secularist academia that the universe "does not have an edge nor center, just as the Earth's surface does not have an edge or center." Since all you have to do is look up at the sky to realize that the whole universe is right up there to be seen, the secularists fly in the face of common sense. Yet for stating such an obvious premise, Gonzales was opposed for tenure at Iowa State. That hit home, Ben Stein. He was a victim like you.
You release your film "eXpelled."As you fully expect from all your experience, it is rejected almost unanimously by the MSM. It receives an 8% rating on the TomatoMeter, earning it a place on the list of the worst-reviewed films of all time. In a review not catalogued by Tomatoes, ChristianAnwers.net writes that your film "has made Ben Stein the new hero of believers in God everywhere, and has landed a smart right cross to the protruding jaw of evolution's elite."
Again, the useful excluded middle. Those for whom Ben Stein is not a hero are not believers in God. It also follows that the phrase "believers in God everywhere" does not extend to believers in God who agree with Darwin. So ChristanAnswers has excluded two middles at one fell stroke.
Let's hope that word doesn't get back to the bosses of the critic named "Yo" at hollywoodjesus.com. Yo takes a chance by saying: "This creator could have been anything of intelligence, including aliens. Intelligent Design is a scientific movement, not a religious one, a fact stated more than once in interviews in this film. Unfortunately, those statements are constantly ignored as 'Expelled' continually brings up the question of God's existence and thereby equates the movement with a belief in God."
And right there, Ben Stein, we can clearly see Yo's error. He has included the middle.
Here is Stein's most urgent question: "How does something that is not life turn into something that is?"
Stein poses this stumper to a jolly British professor who seems direct from Monty Python. He thinks there's a "very good chance" that life might have started with molecules on crystals, which have a tendency to mutate. Cut to a shot of a turbaned crystal-ball gazer. Stein dubs them "joy riding crystals." He wonders what the odds would be of life starting that way.
"You would have to have a minimum of 250 proteins to provide minimal life functions," an ID defender explains. We see an animated cartoon of the Darwinian scientist Richard Dawkins pulling at a slot machine and lining up--three in a row! Not so fast there, "Lucky" Dawkins! The camera pulls back to show one-armed bandits stretching into infinity. To win, he'd have to hit the jackpot about a gazillion times in a row. An Intelligent Design advocate estimates a streak like that would take a trillion, trillion, trillion tries. (That is number a fair piece larger than 3 trillion.)
Quite a joy ride. ID's argument against the crystal theory seems like a new version of its classic argument, "How could an eye evolve without knowing there was anything to see?" Very easily, apparently, because various forms of eyes have evolved 26 different times that scientists know about, and they can explain how it happened. So can I. So can you if you understand Darwinian principles.
Anyway, the slot machine conundrum is based on an ignorance of both math and gambling. From math we know that the odds of winning a coin toss are exactly the same every time. The coin doesn't remember the last try. Hey, sometimes you get lucky. That's why casinos stay in business.
The odds of winning on a single number at roulette are 37 to 1. The odds of winning a second time in a row are also 37 to 1, because the table doesn't know who you are. Every single winning roll beats the odds of 37-to-1. And on and on. The more times in a row you win, the more times you face 37-1 against you. If Russian Roulette were played with a gun containing 37 bullets and one empty chamber, it would quickly lose most of its allure--by a process explained, oddly enough, by Darwin.
Still, in July 1891 at Monte Carlo, the same man broke the 100,000 franc bank at a roulette table three times. Wikipedia reports, "A man named Charles Wells won 23 times out of 30 successive spins of the wheel...Despite hiring private detectives the Casino never discovered Wells's system. Wells later admitted it was just a lucky streak. His system was the high-risk martingale, doubling the stake to make up losses."
The odds against Wells doing that are pretty high. But as every gambler knows, sometimes you do actually hit a number. You don't have to do it a trillion trillion trillion times to be a winner. You only have to do it once. This is explained by Darwin. If you are playing at a table with other gamblers and you win $100 and none of them do, you are just that much better able to outlast them as competitors. When the casino closes, one person at that table must have won more than any of the others. That's why casinos never close. Of course if you gamble long enough, you will eventually lose back more than the others. Your poor spouse tells you this. You know it is true.
But tonight you feel lucky. If you leave the table still holding your pot, you could become as rich as Warren Buffet. Somebody has to. Look at Warren Buffet. Evolution involves holding onto your winnings and investing them wisely. You don't even have to know to how to hold onto your winnings. Evolution does it for you; it is the bank in which useful genetic mutations deposit themselves. There is a very slow rate of return, but it's compounded. At the end of one eon, you get your bank statement and find your pittance has grown into an orang utan. At the end of the next eon, it has grown into Charles Darwin. Scientists, at least 99.875 percent of them, believe that in the long run only useful mutations deposit in this bank. Those mutations with no use, or a negative effect, squander their savings in a long-running bunko game, and die forgotten in the gutter.
The assumption of "Expelled" is that no one could possibly explain how Prof. Monty Python's molecules and their joy-riding crystals could possibly produce life. As luck would have it, at about the same time as the film was being made, teams of scientists at the universities of Oregon and North Carolina explained it. They "determined for the first time the atomic structure of an ancient protein, revealing in unprecedented detail how genes evolved their functions."
"This is the ultimate level of detail," said the evolutionary biologist Joe Thornton. "We were able to see exactly how evolution tinkered with the ancient structure to produce a new function that is crucial to our own bodies today. Nobody's ever done that before." Unfortunately, this momentous discovery was announced almost too late to be mentioned in Ben Stein's film. It wasn't totally too late, but it would have been a great inconvenience for the editor.
What tools did the scientists use? Supercomputer programs and, I quote, "ultra-high energy X-rays from a stadium-sized Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Laboratory near Chicago to chart the precise position of each of the 2,000 atoms in the ancient proteins." What did you expect? They put a molecule under a microscope and picked off bits with their tweezers?
Intelligent Design "scientists" in "Expelled" are offended by being called ignorant. When Stein points out that "Catholics and mainstream Protestant groups" have no problem with the theory of Evolution, he is informed by an ID advocate, "liberal Christians side with anybody against Creationists." Now we have the smoking gun. It is the word liberal. What is the word liberal doing here? The Theory of Evolution is neither liberal nor conservative. It is simply provable or not.
Besides, I would not describe the Vatican as liberal. Look how cautiously it approached Galileo. He only claimed the earth revolved around the sun. No big deal like the earth being ideally placed in the universe. There are millions of conservative scientists, and only a tiny handful disagree with evolution, because rejecting scientific proof is not permissive conservative behavior. In that one use of the word "liberal" the Creationist religious agenda is peeking through. I would translate it as "evolutionists side with anybody against a cherished Evangelical belief." Why are they always trying to push evolutionists over the edge, when they're the ones clinging by their fingernails?
Scientists deserving of the name would share the delight of 99.975 percent of his or her colleagues after learning of the Oregon-North Carolina findings. Then, if they found a plausible reason to doubt them, they would go right to work hoping to win fame by disproving them. A theory, like a molecule, a sea slug and a polar bear, has to fight it out in the survival of the fittest.
"Expelled" is not a bad film from the technical point of view. It is well photographed and edited, sometimes amusing, has well-chosen talking heads, gives an airing to evolutionists however truncated and interrupted with belittling images, and incorporates entertainingly unfair historical footage, as when it compares academia's rejection of Creationism to the erection of the Berlin Wall.
Hilariously, the film argues that evolutionists cannot tolerate dissent. If you were to stand up at a "Catholic and mainstream Protestant" debate and express your support of Creationism, you would in most cases be politely listened to. There are few places as liberal as Boulder, Colo., where I twice debated a Creationist at the Conference on World Affairs, and yet his views were heard politely there. If you were to stand up at an evangelical meeting to defend evolution, I doubt if you would be made to feel as welcome, or that your dissent would be quite as cheerfully tolerated.
The more you know about evolution, or simple logic, the more you are likely to be appalled by the film. No one with ability for critical thinking could watch more than three minutes without becoming aware of its tactics. It isn't even subtle. Take its treatment of Dawkins, who throughout his interviews with Stein is honest, plain-spoken, and courteous. As Stein goes to interview him for the last time, we see a makeup artist carefully patting on rouge and dusting Dawkins' face. After he is prepared and composed, after the shine has been taken off his nose, here comes plain, down-to-earth, workaday Ben Stein. So we get the vain Dawkins with his effete makeup, talking to the ordinary Joe.
I have done television interviews for more than 40 years. I have been on both ends of the questions. I have news for you. Everyone is made up before going on television. If they are not, depending on their complexions, they will look sunburned, red-splotched, oily, pale as a fish belly, orange, mottled, ashen, or too dark to be lighted in the same shot with a lighter skin. There is not a person reading this right now who should go on camera without some kind of makeup. Even the obligatory "shocked neighbors" standing in their front yards after a murder usually have some powder brushed on by the camera person. Was Ben Stein wearing makeup? Of course he was. Did he whisper to his camera crew to roll while Dawkins was being made up? Of course he did. Otherwise, no camera operator on earth would have taped that. That incident dramatizes his approach throughout the film. If you want to study Gotcha! moments, start here.
That is simply one revealing fragment. This film is cheerfully ignorant, manipulative, slanted, cherry-picks quotations, draws unwarranted conclusions, makes outrageous juxtapositions (Soviet marching troops representing opponents of ID), pussy-foots around religion (not a single identified believer among the ID people), segues between quotes that are not about the same thing, tells bald-faced lies, and makes a completely baseless association between freedom of speech and freedom to teach religion in a university class that is not about religion.
And there is worse, much worse. Toward the end of the film, we find that Stein actually did want to title it "From Darwin to Hitler." He finds a Creationist who informs him, "Darwinism inspired and advanced Nazism." He refers to advocates of eugenics as liberal. I would not call Hitler liberal. Arbitrary forced sterilization in our country has been promoted mostly by racists, who curiously found many times more blacks than whites suitable for such treatment.
Ben Stein is only getting warmed up. He takes a field trip to visit one "result" of Darwinism: Nazi concentration camps. "As a Jew," he says, "I wanted to see for myself." We see footage of gaunt, skeletal prisoners. Pathetic children. A mound of naked Jewish corpses. "It's difficult to describe how it felt to walk through such a haunting place," he says. Oh, go ahead, Ben Stein. Describe. It filled you with hatred for Charles Darwin and his followers, who represent the overwhelming majority of educated people in every nation on earth. It is not difficult for me to describe how you made me feel by exploiting the deaths of millions of Jews in support of your argument for a peripheral Christian belief. It fills me with contempt.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 10:02 am
@Xenoche,
Quote:
This ideological function is still widely used today, for example the recent demonization of Muslim's and Iran to legitimize a possible act of war, and, of course, the demonization of America fed to Taliban troops by their religious leaders (makes killing righteous, yeah right...).


Odd you should choose those examples. The Christian religion today has functioned to prevent the mistreatment of our captured enemies. Not perfectly I'll admit but by a considerable and valuable amount. In relation to arrested and imprisoned people here under our criminal codes it has eradicated it.

I don't think this thread has concerned itself with other religions. It is concerned with Christianity now.

Quote:
What does religion give us in modern society that is so necessary?


Nothing if it is considered not necessary.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 10:34 am
@wandeljw,
I see that wande has grabbed top of the page again with no good reason.

I don't see why Ben Stein should exercise Mr Ebert's mind to the extent it has unless he had to get out an article for his editor to go on the back of some adverts. That's what hacks do to make a living.

Challenges to the teaching of evolution are intellectual and nothing to do with what one person happens to think will sell his movie.

The newspaper concerned has been owned by Rupert Murdoch and Conrad Black at various times. It's a commodity by the looks of it like fish and chips.

And the whole post is a challenge to a challenge to the teaching of evolution and thus off topic. And very wearying to read.

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 01:28 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Oh, go ahead, Ben Stein. Describe. It filled you with hatred for Charles Darwin and his followers, who represent the overwhelming majority of educated people in every nation on earth. It is not difficult for me to describe how you made me feel by exploiting the deaths of millions of Jews in support of your argument for a peripheral Christian belief. It fills me with contempt.

Wow. Roger got on quite a roll there.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 01:34 pm
@rosborne979,
Standing Ovation for Roger Ebert!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 01:50 pm
@rosborne979,
The key word being, of course, "peripheral". There's no sense of Christian belief itself in there. He's saying that he's not associating Mr Stein with Christians. There are many "peripheral Chritian beliefs" And you are being told not to use Mr Stein to try to discredit Christianity. You're only kidding yourselves if you do. Your prejudices have tempted you to lean too far and you have put "paripheral" on Ignore. Then you can't read properly.

And it has nothing to do with Darwin what some silly twat did with his stuff. It says nothing about Darwin's science. Like Hiroshima says nothing about Einstein. Those things only give pause for thought on scientific freedom. Not on the science. So it's political. Objectivity has flown up its own arse. As Marx said it would.
0 Replies
 
Xenoche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 02:34 pm
@spendius,
In light of prisoners of war, Christianity has, in itself, no responsibility regarding the treatment of prisoners of war (what of enemy combatants?). The Geneva Convention is a global diplomatic initiative. The en actors and committee of the Geneva Convention are impartial, neutral, and an independent organization whose exclusive humanitarian mission is to protect the lives and dignity of victims of war and to provide them with assistance.
Quote:
Not perfectly I'll admit but by a considerable and valuable amount.

I'm glad you are honest about America's inability to completely abide by international law.

So lets hypothesize for a moment that your claim isn't fallacious.
Because you treat your enemies with respect (in accordance with international law), that gives your affiliated religious organization the moral mandate to subvert scientific endeavors that conflict with said religions ideals, despite reality?

Quote:
I don't think this thread has concerned itself with other religions. It is concerned with Christianity now.

I am not concerned.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 03:49 pm
@Xenoche,
What are you concerned about then?
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 10:06 am
OKLAHOMA UPDATE
Quote:
Bill Targets Religious Discrimination in Oklahoma Schools
(Associated Press, December 3, 2008)

OKLAHOMA CITY " The first House bill filed for the 2009 legislative session seeks to clarify where the line is drawn on allowing religion in public schools, but opponents say the bill is an ideologically driven measure that will create more problems than solutions.

House Bill 1001, authored by Oklahoma City Republican Reps. Sally Kern and Mike Reynolds, is titled the “Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act.”

The bill allows students to express religious viewpoints in the classroom or in assignments without discrimination and prohibits students from being penalized or rewarded for the religious content of their work.

The measure also allows religious groups or clubs to have the same access to school facilities as secular groups and requires school districts to adopt policies on student speakers that does not discriminate against expressions of religious viewpoints.

Reynolds said the goal of the bill is not to create any new policies for districts to follow, but simply to codify into law what already has been decided by the U.S. Supreme Court regarding religion in schools.

“There’s nothing new about this bill,” Reynolds said. “It makes it very clear that we agree with the Supreme Court.

“The second thing it does is provide for a model policy for school districts to adopt so they don’t have to hire lawyers to come up with these policies.”

If a district adopts the model policy contained in the bill, Reynolds said the state attorney general’s office would be required to defend the district if it were sued over the policy.

But some lawmakers, including Rep. Ed Cannaday, a former teacher and school administrator in eastern Oklahoma, described the measure as a “cotton candy bill.”

“It’s tasteful and you enjoy it, but it does nothing for you,” said Cannaday, D-Porum.

Cannaday said the bill also could open the door for radical religious groups to demand equal time in Oklahoma schools.

“What’s more dangerous is that this cotton candy has been laced with arsenic,” Cannaday said. “The radical, non-Christian fringe groups who want to undermine our faith will use this to disrupt and to distract from our spiritual base.”

A nearly identical bill last session passed the House and Senate, but was vetoed by Gov. Brad Henry.

In his veto message, Henry said students already are allowed to express their faith and that the bill could subject school officials to “an explosion of costly and protracted litigation.”

“While well intended, this legislation is vaguely written and may trigger a number of unintended consequences that actually impede rather than enhance such expression,” Henry wrote.

Kern, also a former public school teacher, disagreed with Henry’s take on the bill, saying the measure would provide more clarity for schools.

“That is totally bogus,” Kern said of Henry’s veto message. “I doubt he even read the bill.”

Dr. Richard Broughton, an associate professor of zoology at the University of Oklahoma and the president of Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education, said he opposed the bill last year and plans to do so again this year. Broughton thinks the bill is an attempt to inject religion into science classrooms, a move the group adamantly opposes.

“We think that only science should be taught in science classrooms,” Broughton said. “It doesn’t deal with specific science or content, but the implications are pretty clear about what kind of things could happen if the bill passes.”

With Republicans now controlling both the Oklahoma House and Senate, Broughton said he fears more bills will be introduced that are driven by ideology than good public policy.

“I really hope we don’t see them, but we’re concerned,” Broughton said. “Those kinds of bills have died in the past, but could re-emerge in the political environment we have now.”


(emphasis added by me ---- I remember the same bill being debated and passed a year ago but, luckily, vetoed by the governor.)
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 10:38 am
@wandeljw,
I'm finding that with wande's quotes that I can't copy individual sentences. I can copy the whole post. Which is a nuisance.

I wondered what the lawyers would do with themselves if the school districts didn't have to hire them anymore when a "model policy" is in place.

Would they get a job in industry or find other ways of having themselves hired by various bodies with access to your funds.

Why "luckily" wande? Are we drawing lots like Rabelais has his lawyers do? The only other explanation I can think of, as it can't be a typo, is that wande doesn't know what ordinary words mean which opens up the idea that he's not a fit and proper person to be allowed an input into the educational policies of 50 million kids.

wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:04 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Why "luckily" wande?


Luckily for preventing lawsuits in Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Governor stated that he vetoed the bill because it would make Oklahoma schools open to lawsuits.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 11:57 am
@wandeljw,
Which is unlucky for lawyers, court officials, editors and all those who can get something out of the job.

You were being subjective and that is not scientific and thus it is off topic and irrelevant on a science thread and especially one where objectivity is the main plank of the anti-IDer's argument.

It looks like you're only objective when it suits you.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 12:01 pm
@spendius,
And further to that it says that intellectual principles are decided on the cost factor which is where I am permanently coming from. The cost of irreligion. (the social consequences).
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 09:47 am
TEXAS UPDATE
Quote:
SBOE CHAIR SHOULD REMOVE DUNBAR FROM INSTRUCTION COMMITTEE
(Texas Freedom Network Press Release, December 4, 2008)

The State Board of Education's chairman should remove Cynthia Dunbar, R-Richmond, from the panel's Committee on Instruction following the publication of a new book in which she attacks a public education system she helps govern, the Texas Freedom Network's president said today.

"It's bad enough that she wants to use our children's schools to promote ideological agendas that are far outside the mainstream," Miller said. "But she has really crossed a line here. The chairman should assure parents that he will shield the public school curriculum and our children's education from extremists like Ms. Dunbar."

In her book, One Nation Under God (Onward, 2008), Dunbar (on p. 100) calls public education a "subtly deceptive tool of perversion." She charges that the establishment of public schools is unconstitutional and even "tyrannical" because it threatens the authority of families, granted by God through Scripture, to direct the instruction of their children (p. 103) Dunbar, who has home-schooled her children and sent them to private schools, bases that charge on her belief that "the underlying authority for our constitutional form of government stems directly from biblical precedents." (p. xv)

"Even if you question the accuracy of my constitutional interpretation as proof of the inappropriateness of a state-created, tax-payer supported school system, still the Scriptures bear witness to such an institution's lack of proper authority in the life of the Christian family," Dunbar writes (p. 102).

Dunbar also offers a hint about why she helps govern a public education system she loathes.

"This battle for our nation's children and who will control their education and training is crucial to our success for reclaiming our nation," Dunbar writes (p. 100), after earlier condemning what she calls a secular society that resembles Nazi Germany just before the Holocaust. Those at risk today are "the devout, Bible-believing Christians," she writes (p. 2).

Dunbar argues that the Founders created "an emphatically Christian government" (p. 18) and believed government should be guided by a "biblical litmus test." (p. 47) She also endorses a "belief system" that would "require that any person desiring to govern have a sincere knowledge and appreciation for the Word of God in order to rightly govern." (p. 17)

Dunbar sees public schools as a threat to that belief system: "Our children are, after all, our best and greatest assets, and we are throwing them into the enemy's flames even as the children of Israel threw their children to Moloch." (p. 101)

Dunbar should have been honest with voters when she ran for the board in 2006, Miller said.

"A fire chief wouldn't knowingly hire an arsonist in the department," Miller said. "It's just as hard to imagine many voters knowingly supporting for the State Board of Education an extremist who despises the public schools nearly everybody's kids except her own attend."

Dunbar won her seat in 2006 and sits on the state board's key Committee on Instruction. The committee guides the state board's policies on curriculum and textbook adoptions. Earlier this year, for example, Dunbar used her position on that committee to win approval for vague guidelines that some public schools have used to offer deeply flawed and blatantly sectarian Bible classes in the past. Even worse, she then joined three other board members in endorsing a constitutionally suspect Bible course curriculum that Odessa public schools had been forced to remove from classrooms after being sued by local parents.

The board is currently debating a revision of science curriculum standards for the state's public schools. Dunbar is part of a bloc of creationists who want public schools to teach students that evolution is not established, mainstream science. The board will begin revising social studies curriculum standards, including standards for American history and government, next year.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:24 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
Dunbar also offers a hint about why she helps govern a public education system she loathes.

"This battle for our nation's children and who will control their education and training is crucial to our success for reclaiming our nation," Dunbar writes (p. 100), after earlier condemning what she calls a secular society that resembles Nazi Germany just before the Holocaust. Those at risk today are "the devout, Bible-believing Christians," she writes (p. 2).

It comes as no surprise, once again, to see that the underlying motivation behind objections to evolution (and science education in general) come from people with a religious agenda. They have no interest in improving science education or academic freedom.

This is the same thing that was revealed in the Dover case. Nothing has changed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:31 am
@rosborne979,
What farmerman said; science continues to question and find answers for our environment. Creationism is stuck regurtitating the same 2000 year old book with so many flaws, one should wonder why people continue to push it into children's faces. That the creationists can find so many different ways to present their case for creationism, why can't they answer the simple ones about the bible such as the age of the earth.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 11:50 am
http://ncseweb.org/evolution/education/academic-freedom

Quote:
Academic Freedom
* October 17th, 2008


Just as creationists relabeled creation science following the 1987 Edwards v. Aguillard decision, creationists are currently attempting to promote intelligent design creationism with new catchphrases. ID arguments (themselves merely dandified versions of arguments made by "creation scientists" and earlier generations of creationists) are now being presented under the guise of "critical analysis" or "strengths and weaknesses" of evolution. ID promoters such as Ben Stein in his movie Expelled insist that teachers ought to have "academic freedom" to present such arguments. (For a full rebuttal of Expelled, see NCSE's Expelled Exposed.) Proponents of a creationist bill passed in Louisiana in 2008 used the same argument.

The claims of "academic freedom" are disingenuous for several reasons. The American Association of University Professors, the chief watchdog for academic freedom, defines academic freedom principally in terms of the right of college-level scholars to conduct, publish and discuss research. AAUP has stated its opposition to efforts to teach ID in classrooms, stating recently that "Such efforts run counter to the overwhelming scientific consensus regarding evolution and are inconsistent with a proper understanding of the meaning of academic freedom." And as the AAUP observes, academic freedom does not carry with it the freedom to misinform students, and that is exactly what happens when ID arguments are taught.

Teachers who present creationism (under any name) as science are misinforming their students. ID’s claims about the supernatural fall outside of science, and the arguments presented under the rubric of "critical analysis" or teaching "strengths and weaknesses" are not scientifically credible. For instance, ID promoters advocated that students should be taught about holes in the fossil record of whale evolution. When paleontologists uncovered numerous fossils demonstrating exactly the transitions which ID promoters insisted did not exist, whales disappeared from the ID list of "weaknesses." Nevertheless, opponents of evolution education still advocate teaching students that we do not have a perfect fossil record of, for instance, bat evolution. This is a strategy of teaching students what we don’t know, rather than what we do, and leaves students ill-prepared to learn new information as science progresses.

Teachers have no freedom to misinform and miseducate students. It is scientifically inappropriate and educationally irresponsible to present ID under its own name or in any other guise as scientifically credible. And it is unconstitutional to do so in the public schools.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 01:37 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
It comes as no surprise, once again, to see that the underlying motivation behind objections to evolution (and science education in general) come from people with a religious agenda. They have no interest in improving science education or academic freedom.

This is the same thing that was revealed in the Dover case. Nothing has changed.


People with a religious agenda do not object to any science outside of certain narrow areas in biology. And even those areas are not objected to at high levels of theology. It is exposing the mass of kids to them which is the issue.

It is a smear to try to link an objection to evolution "in schools" with an objection to science generally resulting from a gross underestimation of the intelligence of the audience.

Those with a religious agenda, excluding a few extremists such as the Amish, have every interest in improving scientific education and academic freedom if the latter term relates, as it does, to "academia".

Those having anxious recourse to the Ignore function are disqualified from the institution of "Academia" and for them to talk of academic freedom is laughable.

Nothing to do with human biology was presented at Dover as far as I know. It was Ignored. For the purpose of the case humans were different from the rest of creation. Pointedly so. Like a sore thumb.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 01:48 pm
Teachers have no freedom to misinform and miseducate students.

This says it all.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
That depends on your meaning of "teachers". People in charge of classrooms in secondary schools are agents of the state.

In regard to what the Senator from Texas called "controversial issues" such teachers are expected to misinform and miseducate if necessary. If evolution wasn't so contoversial it would be no problem. But it is.

I have barely got started and I'm put on Ignore by these proponents of academic freedom. Can you not understand that Ed? Really? If I bother them so much that they have made themselves look silly what do you think would happen in schools were headbanger evolutionists to be let loose on the kids.
 

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