Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

Im not sure we even know what "Gopher wood" is.

Re: farmerman (Post 3978247)
The mountains of Ararat are the places given in the Bible as the resting-place for the ark. The name Ararat comes from the area between the Aras and Upper Tigris rivers, which were occupied by a kingdom the Babylonians called Urardhu/Urartu (rrt in Hebrew) or Ararat in English. The mountain that since the medieval ages has been identified as Mount Ararat is actually called Agri Dagh, a snow capped inactive volcano some 5165 m high and 40 km in diameter, consisting of the twin peaks of Buyuk Agri Dagh and 10 km away, Kucuk Agri Dagh. It is the largest single mountain in the world. Agri Dagh lies in the area called Agri in the east of the Turkish province of Anatolia near the borders of Turkey, Iran and Armenia.

Its northern and eastern slopes overlook the Aras River flood plain and high up on those slopes the Armenians built a village and a chapel to St James at the spot where local tradition has it that Noah built an altar on leaving the ark. A monastery was built even higher up to commemorate St Jacob who is supposed to have repeatedly tried and failed to reach the summit in his search for the ark. The monastery, the chapel and the village were all destroyed in an avalanche set off by an earthquake in 1840.

There are no trees on the cold windswept slopes (the base of the Mt has some birch trees) and when two pieces of hewn timber were carried down in the late 1960’s, they were first thought to be evidence of the ark. Carbon dating placed them as no earlier than the 7th Century CE. It is most probable that they are the remains of the village or the monastery. The slopes were, however, covered in trees until the Middle Ages when weather changes killed them all off. The resulting erosion has made it impossible for the forest to re-establish itself.

In 1829, Johann von Parrot became the first known person to reach the summit and since then, several climbers and one aviator have reported seeing the ark embedded in the glacier on the northern slope near the top of the mountain. If they are telling the truth, it seems most likely that they have seen the remains of the medieval monastery constructed in the shape of the ark ie rectangular with some sort of roof.

Were the remains of the ark incorporated into part of the monastery? It seems very likely that any remains still in existence would have been salvaged and revered by monks building a nearby monastery dedicated to the ark. Therefore it seems very unlikely if the ark did exist that it would exist now.

Apart from traditional beliefs, ancient historians (such as Nicholas of Damascus and Josephus) recorded that people in this area were recovering pitch from the ark and this pitch was highly valued as talismans. One Arab historian (the Qur’an says the ark rests on Mount Judi) states the last remains were souvenired around the time of the Middle Ages. To me, this sounds like a souvenir shop making a fortune using boiled resin from the trees that disappeared at the same time as the tourist industry fell flat.

The following site starts factual and goes down hill. It is a bit dated now, but is worth a look for the first half :
http://www.adiyamanli.org/agri.html

Christian Archaeologist Casts Further Doubt on Ark 'Discovery'
(Eric Young, Christian Post, May 2, 2010)

An archaeologist who visited Mount Ararat with the Chinese and Turkish expedition team that now claims to have found the remains of Noah’s Ark says he has more reasons to believe that the “discovery” is fake than the team has proof that it’s real.

Among them are photos that he has of the inside of the “so-called Ark” that show cobwebs in the corners of the rafters " “something just not possible in these conditions.”

“To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake,” reported Dr. Randall Price, president for World of the Bible Ministries, in an e-mail to his ministry’s supporters following last week’s Ark announcement.

Last Sunday, an expedition team from Noah’s Ark Ministries International (NAMI) that explored Mount Ararat announced that the wood specimens they had retrieved last year from the “large wooden structure” they discovered more than 4,000 meters above sea level were found to be 4,800 years in age " a figure that would go back to the time of Noah, based upon a literal reading of the Bible.

Backed by Turkish government officials and his group’s own set of experts, NAMI representative Man-fai Yuen said, “We believe that the wooden structure we entered is the same structure recorded in historical accounts and the same ancient boat indicated by the locals.”

Dr. Randall Price, however, says he was informed by a local partner in the village at the foot of Mount Ararat that ten Kurdish workers were hired by the expedition team’s guide in the late summer of 2008 to transport and plant large wood beams from an old structure in the Black Sea area at the Mount Ararat site.

That same guide had showed the team a cave in 2006 that was thought to contain wood but, upon inspection by Price and a team of geologists, actually contained volcanic rock.

Price had planned to check out the latest site in 2008 but did not get to for reasons not clearly reported.

“During that expedition, the guide … who claimed to have found the Ark, was constantly drunk and after one month sitting in a hotel waiting, the expedition never happened,” he informed ministry supporters.

Though many have concluded from Price’s leaked e-mail that the Christian archaeologist believes the Kurdish guide and his partners were merely extorting money from the Chinese evangelical Christians belonging to NAMI, the ministry leader stopped short of affirming the conclusion, saying only that he believes that the greater the claim, the greater the evidence needs to be to support it.

“While he (Price) has reservations about the nature and procedure of the Chinese-Turkish expedition and the artifacts related to it, he believes that a decision concerning this matter must wait until independent examinations of the site and the structure can be made and published,” Price’s ministry stated this past week.

On another note, Price had informed supporters in his e-mail that he plans to check out another site this summer with a man who has climbed Mount Ararat 33 times and claims to know the location of a piece of the Ark.

“Last year we had a good expedition to a higher site (the satellite site) and this summer we will excavate the shepherd’s site and have every reason to expect success,” he reported.

In addition to being the president and founder of World of the Bible Ministries, Price is the executive director and distinguished professor of Judaic Studies at Liberty University.

Price has degrees from Texas State University, Dallas Theological Seminary, and the University of Texas at Austin. He is also a member of the Evangelical Theological Society, the Society for Biblical Literature, and The Near East Archaeological Society.

NOAH'S ARK UPDATE

Quote:

Christian Archaeologist Casts Further Doubt on Ark 'Discovery'
(Eric Young, Christian Post, May 2, 2010)

Among them are photos that he has of the inside of the “so-called Ark” that show cobwebs in the corners of the rafters " “something just not possible in these conditions.”

Remember, These are the reps of the same nation that gives us H2S spouting plaster, and baby food with melamine.

I love stories of good con jobs. Especially when they surround some deeply held belief .

Price, however, says he was informed by a local partner in the village at the foot of Mount Ararat that ten Kurdish workers were hired by the expedition team’s guide in the late summer of 2008 to transport and plant large wood beams from an old structure in the Black Sea area at the Mount Ararat site.

Lewis Black said, The biggest pile of Jewish Bullshit .

To the Members of the Knox County School Board,
We are the authors of the college-level biology textbook Asking About Life, which Mr. Kurt Zimmermann has asked you to remove from Knox County schools. We understand that budget considerations may be a more pressing issue right now, but we wanted to address Mr. Zimmerman's request.

Our textbook, Asking About Life, was designed for college students and is mainly used in colleges and universities. The word "myth" appears in a brief definition of the word "creationism" in the chapter opening. We introduce our first chapter on evolution with a legal history outlining the efforts of creationists to interfere with the teaching of evolutionary biology in public schools. The story starts, appropriately, with a description of the Scopes trial, in Dayton. We believe that students benefit from learning that this area of science has an exciting aspect to it that has historical, political, philosophical, and personal relevance.

In our two-page discussion, we show that, historically, one way of interfering with the teaching of evolutionary biology has been "equal time" laws that require science teachers to present creationism in science classrooms. But equal time laws have been repeatedly ruled unconstitutional. From the 1987 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that creation science cannot be taught in public schools because it is religion to a similar 2005 Dover decision, U.S. courts have repeatedly affirmed that creationism is religious doctrine, not science, and that schools cannot require teachers to present religion as an alternative to science.

If Mr. Zimmermann had written to us requesting a rewording in a future edition, we would certainly have responded civilly and sought to accommodate him. We don't feel the word "myth" is in any way an error**, but it is not our intention to offend religious feeling.

At the same time, we will not try to conceal from students the reality that scientific fact often conflicts with religious doctrine. The Earth is billions of years old, not 6000 years, as argued by some Christians; American astronauts did land on the moon in 1969, contrary to some Krishna dogma; and the Earth is not supported by four elephants standing on the back of a tortoise (Hindu mythology).

The fact that organisms change over time and, specifically, that new species arise through the process of evolution is universally accepted by practicing biologists as both a fact and a powerful explanation for everything that happens in biology. In contrast, the Bible's two creation stories (Genesis 1:1 - 2:3 and Genesis 2:4 -2:25) may be viewed as metaphors, allegories, or the literal truth, depending on one's religious views. But neither is a scientific explanation of how new species form.

Asking About Life is an award-winning college-level biology textbook. It has been reviewed by more than two hundred biologists from nearly every state in the union. It is considered an exemplary science textbook. Like many other schools and school districts, Knox County selected it for use by Knox County students.

After Mr. Zimmermann's complaint, a six-member review committee at Farragut High School affirmed that the book was an appropriate text for advanced high school biology students. We hope you'll respect the review committee's hard work and direct Mr. Zimmermann to us for a revision of the sentence that is bothering him and allow students to continue to benefit from reading Asking About Life. Thanks very much for your time.

Best wishes,

Jennie Dusheck
Santa Cruz, CA 95060

Allan J. Tobin
Los Angeles, CA 90036

KNOXVILLE TENNESSEE UPDATE

The Knox County school board will meet again this week to discuss a parent's request to ban a textbook that calls creationism a myth.

That hardly qualifies as scientific given the amount of scholarly effort that has gone into understanding the Bible...even accurate translations require a lifetime of study, let alone the history in it.