Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

There was one nearly amusing moment. It featured Richard Dawkins, who can only think inside boxes, but dresses in front of three mirrors. He furiously denounced Gaia theory. Dawkins is a curate in the temple of Darwin: anything that questions the orthodoxy is heretical, and in that there is the truth of science. The comfort of it is all in defending the past; the worry and anxiety is in looking forward.

I suppose that Turkey i in charge of access to the site. I say, lets go and really evaluate this structure.Reserve ANY speculation until a detailed isotope, structural, STRATIGRAPHIC , and alpha track analysis is done to the structure in-situ.

Lets assume that there is truth to this, then all the aspects of the scientific method and falsifiability ought to apply.IF it were there for 4500 years, then there ought to be some talus pile that reflects that age built up around the bottom. C14 andK/Ar(a)/Ar(b) analyses should be done at many points on the structure. Alpha track analysis ought to be done into the wood surface to see how long its been "in the light"(should conform to C14) and C14 of the sealants and pitch.(since pitch , whether its coal ytar or tree gum tar, gets "reset" when its boiled up).

Also, duhhh, somebody with some good stratigraphy savvy should be walking all around the structure searching for anything that resembles high water marks, since a big flood that would reach all those meters high, should have a detritus and sediment levee somewhere.

Those are some of the issues in falsifiability"If this thing were a boat and it were there 4500 years" we should be seeing evidence that the boat is of the same age AND we should see that the environment around it agrees that there was an actual event that caused a boat to even be there.

Of course Im a bit cynical about this cause the "Noahs Ark" folks of modern times have had at least 60 years to futz with such a site and actually "Create" another kind of "Creation Museum Artifact"

In 2007, a joint Turkish-Hong Kong expedition including members of Noah's Ark Ministries International claimed to find an unusual cave with fossilized wooden walls on Mount Ararat, well above the vegetation line. This 2007 expedition marked the first time in history that an alleged material sample of Noah's Ark was retrieved for lab analysis; the sample was determined by the Department of Earth Sciences at the University of Hong Kong to be petrified wood, although the origin of the material remains uncertain. However, since the discovery in 2008 there have been no findings linking this sample to Noah's Ark.[30] In 2010, members of Noah's Ark Ministries International reported that carbon dating suggests the wood is 4,800 years old which they believe to be the date of the Flood. They also deny that there was any human settlement at the site.[31]
This claim was defeated the next day by the exhibitions main investor J. Randall Price in a letter[32] saying,

I was the archaeologist with the Chinese expedition in the summer of 2008 and was given photos of what they now are reporting to be the inside of the Ark. I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our requests to return it, since it was not used for the expedition. The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details).
To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site. The Chinese team went in the late summer of 2009 (I was there at the time and knew about the hoax) and was shown the cave with the wood and made their film. As I said, I have the photos of the inside of the so-called Ark (that show cobwebs in the corners of rafters " something just not possible in these conditions) and our Kurdish partner in Dogubabyazit (the village at the foot of Mt. Ararat) has all of the facts about the location, the men who planted the wood, and even the truck that transported it."

"J. Randall Price, PaleoBabble

They seem to have found Noah's Ark regularly every few years for the last century or so, in a whole bunch of different places. Must have been a whole lot of Noahs.

WRiting, when properly managed,
(as you may be sure I think mine
is) is but a different name for conversa-
tion : As no one, who knows what he is
about in good company, would venture
to talk all ; -- so no author, who under-
stands the just boundaries of decorum
and good breeding, would presume to
think all : The truest respect which you can pay
to the reader's understanding, is
to halve this matter amicably, and leave
him something to imagine, in his turn,
as well as yourself.

For my own part, I am eternally pay-
ing him compliments of this kind, and
do all that lies in my power to keep his
imagination as busy as my own.

Attorney calls more witnesses to defend teacher accused of burning cross
(By Dean Narciso, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH, April 29, 2010)

MOUNT VERNON - Three months ago, attorney R. Kelly Hamilton seemingly rested his case, after bringing dozens of witnesses to testify that John Freshwater was a great teacher who never would preach in class or intentionally harm a student.

The administrative hearing to determine whether Freshwater could keep his job teaching 8th-grade science, now almost two years long, appeared to be complete.

But Hamilton never closed his case.

It resumed today, and will continue Friday. At least three additional dates are scheduled for June, amid uncertainty about when the hearing will end.

Both sides have agreed not to convene the hearing during summer break because witnesses will be difficult to schedule.

Hamilton has subpoenaed 16 additional witnesses since Jan. 15, when an anonymous letter was sent to Freshwater and the school board telling them about materials allegedly taken from his classroom that might exonerate him.

The items include textbooks with handwritten notes that Freshwater testified would illustrate his 8th-grade science techniques at Mount Vernon Middle School.

They also include snake and swordfish remains in jars, mule deer antlers and a mummified cat, remnants of his 20-plus year career.

Attorney David Millstone, who represents the school district, said the items have always been available.

"Had they asked for it, I could care less," he said. "There's nothing there."

Several former students testified today that Freshwater touched students' arms with an electrostatic lab instrument to illustrate electricity . But each denied that anyone was forced to have their arms touched.

One student, Tokala Redman, was asked about testimony from her classmate, Zach Dennis, that Freshwater held his arm down, burned a cross on it and often preached religion in class.

"He's lying," she said. "He didn't hold anyone's arm down."

The students all volunteered, she said.

A civil suit filed by the Dennis family against Freshwater is scheduled to begin next month in federal court.

Redman acknowledged that posters bearing each of the Ten Commandments were on the classroom walls.

On cross examination by Millstone, she said Freshwater told the class the device would leave a mark, which she described as like an X, not a cross.

why come up with reasons to explain the Arks lack of presence?

If you read the description of the ark it is a raft type ferry used to cross the Tigris or Euphrates river. The local King (probably Ut-Naphistim) comandeered it to escape the flood waters that came from the ground..it almost never rains in Mesopotamia...and it didnt come to rest on a mountain, it came to rest on a MOUND.

Ill bet you that we never hear from these latest guys again. They will be asked and interviewed and will find excuses to stonewall the inevitable and the tale of the latest Noah's ark find will disappear up the sacred brown ring.

Where Evangelicals get strange is where they insist that evidence exists for a worldwide flood.

This "ark" at such an elevation , needs extraordinary evidence for such an extraordinary claim.

Some American Indin tribes have a river or lake myth but nothing like Gilgamesh or Noah.

There is an ark on Mt Ararat. It was built by Christian monks during the medieval warm period

(in the mid 1800's) A paper at Constantinople announces the discovery of Noah's Ark. It appears that some Turkish commissioners appointed to investigate the avalanches on Mt. Ararat suddenly came on a gigantic structure of very dark wood, protruding from the glacier. They made inquiries of the local folk. These had seen it for six years, but had been afraid to approach it, because a spirit of fierce aspect had been seen looking out of the upper windows. The Turkish Commissioners, however, are bold men, not deterred by such trifles, and they determined to reach it.

Situated as it was among the fastnesses of one of the glens of Mt. Ararat, it was a work of enormous difficulty, and it was only after incredible hardships that they succeeded. The Ark was in a good state of preservation.... They recognized it at once.

There was an English-speaking man among them, who had presumably read his Bible, and he saw it was made of gopher wood, the ancient timber of the scripture, which, as everyone knows, grows only on the plains of the Euphrates. Effecting an entrance into the structure, which was painted brown, they found that the Admirality requirements for the conveyance of horses had been carried out, and the interior was divided into partitions 15 feet high.

Into only three of these could they get, the others being full of ice, and how far the Ark extended into the glacier they could not tell. If, however, on being uncovered, it turns out to be 300 cubits long [the dimensions cited in Genesis], it will go hard with disbelievers.

In 1892 Archdeacon John Joseph Nouri of the Chaldean Church reported that he had found the ark and even entered it. While there, he took the opportunity to measure it, finding-unsurprisingly-that it was 300 cubits long.

In the following decades a number of expeditions were launched. Most ended in disappointment, and a few others returned claiming sightings. A 1952 expedition led by wealthy French inclustralist Fernand Navarra produced samples of wood which, when first tested, were dated at 5,000 years. A later, more accurate test resulted in a disappointing finding: the wood was from A.D. 800 and probably from a monks' shrine built on the side of the mountain. A 1960 Life photograph of a ship-shaped depression on the mountain sent an expedition racing for an onsite look-at what turned out to be a natural formation created by a recent landslide.

Chinese explorers stand by claim of Noah's Ark find in Turkey
(By Stephen Kurczy, Christian Science Monitor, April 30, 2010)

Two members of the search team that claims to have found Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey responded to skepticism by saying that there is no plausible explanation for what they found other than it is the fabled biblical boat that floated on a flooded earth for 40 days and 40 nights.

Noah's Ark Ministries International (NAMI) held a press conference April 25 in Hong Kong to present their findings and say they were “99.9 percent sure” that a wooden structure found at a 12,000-ft. elevation and dated as 4,800 years old was Noah’s Ark.

A flood massive enough to float a boat to the top of Mount Ararat bucks against geologic studies that show no evidence of a worldwide flood that would also have wiped out all plants, animals, and most traces of human civilization. Even prominent fundamentalist Christians who do believe in a worldwide flood have cast doubt on the latest purported discovery.

But members of the Chinese-Turkish team stood by their finding.

“How can a ship be on a mountain?” Yeung Wing-cheung, one of six team members who entered the structure on Mount Ararat last October, told the Monitor today by telephone from Hong Kong.

“The only record of a wooden structure on Mount Ararat is Noah’s Ark," Clara Wei, the team coordinator, also said today by telephone from Beijing. "So up to now I believe this is the most probable explanation. We don’t have another explanation."

While both say more research is necessary, they rebutted critics who say that the finding was a hoax. NAMI is a subsidiary of Hong Kong-based Media Evangelism Limited, founded in 1989 to publish multimedia geared toward evangelizing.

“We don’t have anything to hide,” says Mrs. Wei. She says that massive wooden planks, some 20 meters long, were found in wooden rooms and hallways buried in the ice atop Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey. People could not carry such heavy wood to such a height, nor can vehicles access such a remote location on the mountain. A video of the exploration shows team members wearing crampons and trekking through snow to reach the site.

“You can hire horses to carry bags, but they cannot balance themselves with 20-meter-long timber,” says Wei, adding that there was no cultural evidence " such as pottery " that the structure was a former house or church.

Turkish officials from Agri Province, the location of Mount Ararat, also attended this week’s press conference in Hong Kong. Lieutenant governor Murat Güven and Cultural Ministries Director Muhsin Bulut, both provincial officials, believe the discovery is likely Noah’s Ark, according to the announcement posted on the team's website.

“The local government thinks this is Noah’s Ark,” Mr. Yeung says.

Over the decades, many explorers have hunted for Noah’s Ark on Mount Ararat, and a number claimed to find the boat.

Russian World War I aviator Vladimir Roskovitsky claimed to see a large ship resting high on Mount Ararat in 1917. The astronaut James Irwin led a number of disappointing expeditions to Mt. Ararat between 1982 and 1986. French industrialist Fernand Navarra ascended Ararat in 1955, recovering a piece of oak initially dated 5,000 years old; more accurate carbon dating later showed it in the range of A.D. 620 to A.D. 90.

However, NAMI claims that their expedition was the first to invest several years of effort with the locals. Starting in 2004, NAMI spent several months every year at the mountain conducting searches while also maintaining contact with local fixers. What began as a documentary about the legend of Noah’s Ark turned into their own obsession with finding the mythic vessel when a local guide by the name of Parasut told them in mid-2008 that he knew the boat’s location. One team member, Panda Lee, visited the location that October.

Wei says bad weather prevented NAMI from reaching the site again until October 2009, this time with a three-person film crew. They took video and rock and wood samples, which they then sent to a university in Tehran, Iran " she declined to reveal which one " for radiocarbon dating. This showed the wood to be 4,800 years old, Wei says. The team then spent several months speaking with Turkish officials and researchers before holding this week’s press conference in Hong Kong, which set off a firestorm of media reports on major outlets such as Fox News to Good Morning America.

Initially, prominent ark-hunter Randall Price, an evangelical Christian and professor at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., was also a member of the team. He quit, however, over doubts about Parasut’s honesty, and has since concluded that the site is an elaborate "hoax." Mr. Price has questioned why Parasut and NAMI refuse to reveal the location of the finding.

Yeung and Wei say that this could open the site to pillaging.

While ark-hunting has become an industry of sorts in southeastern Turkey, with a number of locals on hand to show visitors where to find the ark, Wei insists their guide is trustworthy and only wants to bring attention to his discovery on the mountain.

“He thinks we have the power to bring this to the world. He knows we can do that for him,” she says.

Wei and Yeung both declined the reveal the amount of money NAMI spent searching for the ark. Yeung said it came from private donors in Hong Kong and Australia.

Creationists, like many of those searching for the ark, have long sought evidence of Noah's Ark to reaffirm their belief that God created the world in seven days and judges the wicked, as when the world was destroyed in flood that spared only Noah and his family.

“If Noah built a real solid boat just like you or I could build a solid boat, and traveled over a stormy sea just like you or I could travel over a stormy sea, and landed on solid ground just like you or I could land on solid ground, if all that could be affirmed, it would also affirm the moral theories that they’re interested in,” says Christopher Toumey, an anthropology professor at the University of South Carolina.

The story of an ancient flood is more ancient than Genesis, says Professor Toumey. A passage from the Sumerian epic Gilgamesh, among the world's oldest known literature, tells of a man named Ziusudra surviving a great flood. The Babylonian version of that story says Utnapishtum survives the flood. The plot was reworked and the name again changed, this time to Noah, in the version in the book of Genesis.

As such, Toumey says the discovery of Noah's Ark may not necessarily prove useful to evangelical Christians.

“Obviously they want it to affirm the story of Noah. It could just as easily affirm the story of Ziusudra or Utnapishtum,” Toumey told the Monitor.

Turkey’s culture minister this week ordered a probe into how NAMI brought pieces of the wood sampled from Turkey to China.

“How did these objects get there [to Hong Kong] and under whose authority were the officials present there? We are investigating this,” Culture and Tourism Minister Ertuğrul Günay said, according to local newspaper Today’s Zaman. At the same time he welcomed the finding and said it could boost tourism.

The next step in the discovery, says Wei, is to coordinate with scientists, researchers, and the Turkish government to conduct further studies on the site.

Mrs. Wei says she is 99.9 percent sure they have found Noah’s Ark.

“We need scientists to give us another 0.1 percent.”

Turkey’s culture minister this week ordered a probe into how NAMI brought pieces of the wood sampled from Turkey to China.

“How did these objects get there [to Hong Kong] and under whose authority were the officials present there? We are investigating this,” Culture and Tourism Minister Ertuğrul Günay said, according to local newspaper Today’s Zaman. At the same time he welcomed the finding and said it could boost tourism.