61
   

Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2009 08:57 pm
@Lightwizard,
How did you arrive at that conclusion? GWBush received his masters degree from Harvard; you trying to imply his degree is worth more than most degrees earned at any Seventh Day Adventist university?

How do you base you conclusion?

Many of those derivatives were created by Harvard graduates; don't you have some kind of standard for what they do with their degrees?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:01 am
Once again may I remind you that unless you have engaged your mind with Veblen's The Higher Learning in America you have little understanding of the basics of the modern educational industry. So there is little need to take seriously any expostulations about understanding the basics of biology from those who hold forth about the educational system without any understanding of its basic principles.

Obviously those who hold certifications will pretend such literature doesn't exist in much the same way that some fundies, a few, and a few ideal for inspiring outrage freakouts, pretend evolution theory doesn't exist. Such people usually restrict their contacts to people similarly placed so that they can all reassure each other how extraordinarily clever they are. A bit like Masons.

My advice to anybody with good brains is to get out of school at 15 and get into making money.

Extended infant dependence does make unemployment statistics more acceptable.

In Media Studies they don't study Media. They study how to bamboozle the population which is paying for the privilege.

They sell a ticket to ride and mainly to the offspring of the loins of those who live in large houses.

Is anybody claiming that Mr Bush was in the top intelligence braket when he was "accredited" to Harvard?

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:15 am
@cicerone imposter,
We actually have to go into the curricula makeup of any U to see whether they are indeed accredited, and by what unit or accreditation. Liberty college IS accredited in biology because they sneak by the accreditation requiremenst be focusing on core courses that they claim are a "pre med" program. However, they are NOT accredited in certain subjects like evolution, and althought they have a geology department, its not accredited by anyone except some Evangelical Christian outfit. If a student were educated at Liberty and tried to get into a "real" grad school, theyd probably have a lot of trouble unless they go and fullfill the unfullfilled requirements. Of course grad schools always make exceptions and design programs based upon the applicants aptitude and performance and their statement that they really want to get past the religious focus of their previous Baccalaureate experience.
The elite Universities will, no matter what, scrutinize their grad applicants no matter what the accreditation status of their alma mater.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:36 am
@farmerman,
Pure bullshit effemm. As ambiguous as it gets. There are loopholes you could drive a Michigan through. What does "scrutinize" mean for example.

It's a good example though of what I mentioned previously about mutual ego stroking.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:42 am
@spendius,
If youre gonna be A2k's offishal Imp, at leastt get the references right. You mean a DETROIT .

Do you deny the accuracy of what I wrote? If you do, try to comment at that and we can discuss your comment. Otherwise just continue strapping your carrot.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 05:57 am
@farmerman,
I did discuss what you wrote. I said it was as ambiguous as it gets and gave an example with "scrutinize". It was bullshit.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 06:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
Bush didn't graduate from Harvard, but Harvard Business College, an entirely different school -- I believe he still maintained a C average and not high up on any survey of colleges and universities.

From The Atlantic

Bush also came to the White House with two kinds of experience"in business and in politics. He attended Harvard Business School from 1973 to 1975, making him the only modern President to have had such training. (Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush ran businesses, but neither went to business school.)

An important effect of going to business school is that it may keep one from going to law school"an especially important effect these days, when so many people in government have legal training. Many law schools and business schools, including Harvard's, use the case method, requiring students to work through historic trials or the problems of actual companies. But they use the method differently. Lawschool accustoms future lawyers to discerning theoretical constructs, either in past decisions or in legal principles, and applying them to the case at hand.Business school immerses future businessmen in the histories of specific companies, in order to develop problem-solving abilities. Law school worships understanding, business school worships skill. Law-school students scrutinize what has been done. If business-school students don't quite learn by doing, they learn how things have been done. Typical of the Harvard Business School's ethos is a line from the textbook Business Policy, by C. Roland Christensen, et al., about company presidents: in "the incomparably detailed confusion of a national company" the role and function of a president "cannot possibly be made clear [by] generalization." In a famous lecture atHarvard, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. declared that "the life of the law" was not logic but experience. These days the business school is actually truer to Holmes's dictum than the law school is.

From USA Today

Top Ten Forbes Colleges

By Mary Beth Marklein, USA TODAY

The U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., is the top college in Forbes magazine's list of America's best colleges.

The magazine entered the rankings fray last year and focuses on five criteria: graduation rates, number of national and global awards to students and faculty; student satisfaction (from RateMyProfessors.com), average debt upon graduation and postgraduate success, based on average salaries of recent graduates and listings in Who's Who in America.

The magazine hits newsstands Friday, but its lists are online now at forbes.com/education.

Here are the schools that rounded out the top 10:

2. Princeton University

3. California Institute of Technology

4. Williams College

5. Harvard University

6. Wellesley College

7. U.S. Air Force Academy

8. Amherst College

9. Yale University

10. Stanford University

End of quotes

In the surveys of best college and universities for 2009, USA Today and Forbes being one of the most comprehensive, you will not find Seventh Day Adventists schools anywhere at the top of the list.






0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 06:43 am
@cicerone imposter,
Sierra isn't even on the list -- I suppose they don't consider it an actual college?

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/94/colleges-09_Americas-Best-Colleges_Name.html

I have the two volumes from Harvard Business School directed at salesmanship. I think this is what Bush studied hardest -- how to sell his adventures in war to Congress, the Senate and the American people. Turns out he learned something there, because he sold all of us (but not the majority of the world) a lemon as far as wars go.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 07:37 am
(I meant to type "most of us," not "all of us.")
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 07:40 am
@farmerman,
I'd like to see someone try to drive Lake Michigan anywhere! Rolling Eyes
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 08:29 am
@Lightwizard,
You could get the Pacific Ocean through the loopholes in effemm's obsequious post.

Knowing human nature as well as I do I don't feel that there's the slightest chance that a vigourous spirit of jealousy and ostentation is not the guiding beacon of education policy. In fact it more than peeps out in these last posts of LW. Certificates from establishments feechewered in the ratings of excellence will no doubt be exchangeable for higher salaries and status and there is little likelihood that the paucity of intelligence of the students will be allowed to detract from their value when PR work can overcome almost any obstacle.

The Power Elite by C.Wright Mills is a useful guide in these respects.

One can be certain that when authority in any major department of life is divided into an incomprehensible system there will be due diligence brought to bear on the multiplication of offices and titles each of which will be supported by splendid and expensive establishments in like manner to the later stages of the Byzantium government.

It would seem that effemm has been a minion in one of these corals in the reef and actually had to have personal contact with students.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 08:57 am
PZ MYERS ON LA SIERRA UNIVERSITY CONTROVERSY
Quote:
Carlos Cerna will someday demand his Ph.D.
(PZ Myers, ScienceBlogs.com, September 1, 2009)

When you tie a university to a religious ideology, you create stresses that show that the modern search for knowledge is the antithesis of religious dogma. I keep telling people that science and religion are in opposition, and here's a perfect example: La Sierra University is a Seventh Day Adventist college. SDAs are fundamentalists and literalists (although, isn't it strange how different literalist sects all seem to come up with different…ahem…interpretations of the Bible?) who as a point of doctrine believe in a young earth and seven day creation. La Sierra has a biology department, as well as teaching other science disciplines.

Let that sink in. Science departments. Six thousand year old earth.

Does not compute. Error. Abort, retry, fail?

How do they do that? Well, a recent controversy has exposed what goes on there, and as it turns out…they teach pretty good mainstream science. From that story, the faculty in their biology department seem to know what they are doing, and they teach that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, and they go over the evidence for it in considerable detail. The professor who teaches one of the courses seems to be no-nonsense and on the ball:
Bradley says he's felt no pressure to change anything about his course, and says bluntly that he doesn't plan to turn his class into a theological seminar, or to present evolutionary theory only to then dismantle it for students. While he's fine with helping students work through struggles of faith, Bradley says he won't undercut decades of peer reviewed scientific research in the interest of religious consistency. "I am not OK with getting up in a science course and saying most science is bullshit," he said.

Meanwhile, the Seventh Day Advent church and the administrators of the college have a different agenda in mind. They want the scientific evidence taught to the students so they can oppose it, and the whole mission of the college is to eventually lead them back into the worship of dogma and superstition " they are plainly going to undermine the teaching of Bradley and get the students to believe that most science is bullshit.

By June 19, the president of the worldwide church had written a letter affirming the church's belief in a "literal, recent, six-day creation" and that "the Flood was global in nature." Jay Paulsen, the church's president, went on to say that church-sponsored colleges and universities should teach students about evolution, but mindfully steer them back toward the church's contrary view.

"As part of that exercise [in teaching] you will also expose them to elements and concepts of evolution. That is understood," he wrote. "As your pastor, however, I appeal to you that when you take your students out on the journey, you bring them safely back home before the day is over. And their home must always be in the world of faith. You owe it to the students, you owe it to God, you owe it to their parents, you owe it to the church, and you owe it to yourself as a believer to safely guide them through difficult moments on their journey."

Oh, and by the way, you cannot get tenure at La Sierra unless you are a member of the Seventh Day Adventist church. The mind boggles. I know this kind of restriction is fairly common at fundie colleges, but it is such an imposition of ideology on the faculty " it turns academic freedom into a joke.

One thing I cannot understand is how Gary Bradley can stomach investing so much of his career in such a place…but he says he is a practicing Adventist.

This exposure of the slimy underbelly of a religious institution came to light as a consequence of an angry student with a sense of entitlement (I've run into a few of those " we have them even at secular universities). He took one of Bradley's courses which taught the real scientific evidence for the age of the earth, and was expected to understand it and be able to explain it in a five page term paper. He couldn't. In fact, his paper is more concerned with presenting a superficial discussion of a few dating methods and then bringing up creationist objections to them, contrary to the instructions he was given.

You can read Carlos Cerna's paper online. It's not very good; it's 13 pages long, but the treatment is incredibly shallow, it has only 5 references, all of which are used to weakly bolster contrarian claims, and simply regurgitates (with skeptical caveats) what he was told in class as representations of standard scientific opinion. For that, he got an incredibly generous C. I would have wobbled between outright flunking the kid or giving him a pity D for being able to type up sentences that are mostly grammatically correct.

You can also read the post-grading exchanges between the student and professor. He's "flabbergasted" that he only got a C. Yeah, I know those students " the ones who think the grade they should get is the one they want, not the one they earned. Bradley's comments are actually very cogent and helpful; he explains what he expected, and that the included apologetics are inappropriate. Here's Bradley's summary; the student was following standard creationist tactics:
As I said, this paper is unacceptable. When I reluctantly agreed that you could insert paragraphs [single paragraphs!] taking issue with the mainstream data I fully expected you to do a good job with that mainstream data. Instead you have largely ignored it and generated yet another creation apologetic piece that "mines quotes" and ignores volumes of data. You can and must do better than this.

It's a valid criticism. I don't quite know why an unacceptable paper was given a C, but I know grade inflation is rampant everywhere.

Meanwhile, the Seventh Day Adventists are freaking out, and protesting that kids are actually exposed to good science in the biology program at "their" university, which they think ought to be teaching only the dogma of their religion. If you ask me, their kids look to be getting a far better education than they deserve.

WARNING TO BIOLOGY PROGRAMS EVERYWHERE: The student, Carlos Cerna, has announced his intention to get a Ph.D. in molecular biology. If you take him on, be aware that he's going to need a lot of remedial instruction, that he has an attitude, and that he probably just wants a degree from your institution so he can use it to peddle creationism to the ignorant. Don't let him slip through your program without thoroughly grilling him on the basics of biology, or he's going to bring some shame on your program.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 09:04 am
@wandeljw,
Mr Cerna will, no doubt, be interviewed at his candidate grad schools. Im assuming that his grades will meet some minimal threshhold of the grad school. The "C" awarded for a paper may just be a portion of his grade and his GRE's and application package < AND letters of endorsement from his faculty and advisors. Im sure that he wouldnt get a glowing letter from Bradley and , if Bradley were his faculty advisor, hed HAVE TO be one who sends in an endorsement or qualifier letter.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 09:25 am
The Seventh Day Adventists have graduated from door-to-door selling fanatical religious ideas along with the infamous Watchtower rag. I haven't bothered to check if any of their "colleges" are listed in the Forbes or USA Today study, but I doubt it. I have an idea that they've abandoned the house call sales, having the door slammed it their faces or suffering a rational retort just one to many times. Anybody who would seek an education from them is not recognizing their cult features, not much different than the Rosicrucians or Scientology. I can just imagine the quality of their biology, let along evolutionary biology. Just like I can imagine Pope Splendious XXX singing Figaro at the Met.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 09:25 am
C.I.
In the U.S, Canada, Britain etc high school students take the S.A.T's or equivalent based on standard of knowledge. If you don't meet or beat the educational standards, your choices, education/school wise have been greatly diminished. You no longer have to choose between a Harvard or a Liberty, your stuck with whoever will take you or whether you go to university, college, to the trades or drop out. Right???
I'm a big proponent of life skills so I'm not sure why you think I don't understand this concept. Of course school is only the foundation of a career. But you can't learn calculus without the basic understanding of math.
I realize not every course is accredited, that's why schools offer courses in Klingon and so on to expand the mind or the horizons... But sciences should be standardized, at least at the university level, not necessarily the same course at each individual school.
I'm still not sure why anyone would bother with a school you can't transfer courses from, accreditation wise... or why you anyone would take a course on Biology that has no practical basis in the world. Or why anyone would defend such a place. But hey, I'm not spending my money or time on a shoddy degree. So, why should I care. Huh... I don't. Just curious.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 10:20 am
@Ceili,
Many of what makes up America do not attend Harvard, Stanford or UC Berkeley; the majority goes to public colleges and universities that provides that backbone in every field of endeavor - and provides for our country's economic superpower.

My brother and most of my nephews and nieces attended Seventh Day Adventist colleges for their medical or dental degrees. They are all practicing their skills in the public arena in private practice and public hospitals all across this country. They are all contributing to our society.

On a personal note, I barely graduated from high school, and earned my college degree at community and state university while working and going to school full time after I spent four years in the US Air Force. I was offered four jobs before I graduated from college, because our school was known for their Accounting graduates good reputation. I went to work for Florsheim Shoe Company as a traveling auditor in the seven western states, and after 3.5 years, the company promoted me to Audit Manager. After my ten year stint with Florsheim, I worked in management positions for the remainder of my working career - and did consulting work to supplement my salaries.

I was the last in my family to earn a college degree, but the first one to retire, and our retirement is very comfortable.

I didn't need to have a SAT score to accomplish what I did.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 12:39 pm
Each of us has at least 100 new mutations in our DNA, according to research published in the journal Current Biology.

Scientists have been trying to get an accurate estimate of the mutation rate for over 70 years.

However, only now has it been possible to get a reliable estimate, thanks to "next generation" technology for genetic sequencing.

The findings may lead to new treatments and insights into our evolution.

In 1935, one of the founders of modern genetics, JBS Haldane, studied a group of men with the blood disease haemophilia. He speculated that there would be about 150 new mutations in each of us.

Others have since looked at DNA in chimpanzees to try to produce general estimates for humans.

However, next generation sequencing technology has enabled the scientists to produce a far more direct and reliable estimate.

They looked at thousands of genes in the Y chromosomes of two Chinese men. They knew the men were distantly related, having shared a common ancestor who was born in 1805.

By looking at the number of differences between the two men, and the size of the human genome, they were able to come up with an estimate of between 100 and 200 new mutations per person.

Impressively, it seems that Haldane was right all along.

Unimaginable

One of the scientists, Dr Yali Xue from the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridgeshire, said: "The amount of data we generated would have been unimaginable just a few years ago.

"And finding this tiny number of mutations was more difficult than finding an ant's egg in an emperor's rice store."

New mutations can occasionally lead to severe diseases like cancer. It is hoped that the findings may lead to new ways to reduce mutations and provide insights into human evolution.

Joseph Nadeau, from the Case Western Reserve University in the US, who was not involved in this study said: "New mutations are the source of inherited variation, some of which can lead to disease and dysfunction, and some of which determine the nature and pace of evolutionary change.

"These are exciting times," he added.

"We are finally obtaining good reliable estimates of genetic features that are urgently needed to understand who we are genetically."


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 01:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgar, Since you're able to spend so much time on these boards, I'm sure you can manage to spend a few hours in Austin this weekend. I really, really, want to meet you!
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 01:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI - three things:
1. I am getting around like an old man right now. The work I do has been getting to me. I need lots of recover time.
2. Money and transportation hinder me.
3. I have to be on the job Sunday morning because the owner will be here from California.

I really do want to meet you, but I don't think so this time around.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Sep, 2009 02:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
Hey, we're about the same age, and according to wandel in Chicago, I walked about 41 miles during my 4.5days in the windy city last week.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 09/19/2024 at 07:34:17