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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:39 pm
@spendius,
It's child's play, and that's the reason you fail to understand it.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 04:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
now whats he trying to emit?
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 04:51 pm
@farmerman,
It was clear enough effemm. Did you have difficulty with it. I tried my best to use simply words that everybody understands.

What specifically were you not able to follow?

What difficulty with evolution theory do you think presents a problem for anybody who can wipe their own arse and chew gum at the same time?

Which NSF spokesperson has been quoted on these threads?

Which president was an anti-IDer in the period 1950-Now?

Why would any respectable scientist want you silly fuckers on their defence team? You can hardly read or write. As you just proved.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 08:21 pm
@farmerman,
A lot of gas. Man and it stinks to high heaven. Where in the world did he get the idea the President in charge has much to do with who is hired at NSF or IGERT? Where is any proof of how many IDiots are working there? More and more brain farting -- probably goes with the beer farts and I pity the person who's in his home.

GERT is also a disease and one of the prime causes in alcohol.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 08:41 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/oldestanimalfossilsfoundinlakesnotoceans

Quote:
Conventional wisdom has it that the first animals evolved in the ocean.


Now researchers studying ancient rock samples in South China have found that the first animal fossils are preserved in ancient lake deposits, not in marine sediments as commonly assumed.

These new findings not only raise questions as to where the earliest animals were living, but what factors drove animals to evolve in the first place.


how will this affect the study of evolution?
Anybody?
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:14 am
@panzade,
It probably wont affect anything except to affect models of the "first cell" hypothesis. Since the development of the first cells are dependent upon the chemistry of the environment, an aqueous environment is probably critical becuase water acts as the "universal solvent". Many times lake deposits can become elevated in certain salts other than the standard ocean mix. (Eg, many lakes along the rift of Africa are enriched in CO, CO2 and H2S. Many lakes may actually be deadly but sometimes life needs a good kick in the ass to get rolling. Chemical energy can be just as powerful a driving force as is electricity.

I hope that theres more on this since Im not fully certain I understand how they did their "Age dating" and correlation among similar age sediments.

There is a plavce in Greenland that has always been considered one of the initial spots where life first appeared. The evidence is based entirely on the ratio of specific isotopes of carbon (life preferes to use a single carbon isotope in its building blocks). So, while that evidence is based on what we know today, we still arent sure whethre , in the past, life couldnt have used C13 instead of C12 as its favorite "sauce". Same thing with the Chinese stuff, its only what Id call some educated speculation at this stage. It could be important but lets just wait and see what more evidence shows. Im sure there will be all kinds of articles in juried journals as workers piece the story together.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:29 am
@Lightwizard,
Try reading posts LW before blurting responses.

Quote:
A lot of gas.


From the Playpen Book of Wit.

Quote:
Man and it stinks to high heaven.


Ditto.

Quote:
Where in the world did he get the idea the President in charge has much to do with who is hired at NSF or IGERT?


Send this man for ECEC. (Emergency comprehension and expression correction.)

Quote:
Where is any proof of how many IDiots are working there?


Intensive Care department.

Quote:
More and more brain farting


From the Playpen Book of Wit. Potty trained section.

Quote:
probably goes with the beer farts and I pity the person who's in his home.


What? On the money them buggers are on!!

You're more or less illiterate LW.





0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:33 am
@panzade,
HOLD ON WHAT I JUST SAID.I looked up the Doushantuo Formation and it turns out that this formation is actually from the late preCambrian and overlaps the early Cambrian.(where these fossils were found)and heres some info about it
Quote:


The interesting thing about the stratigraphy is that, by dating its sed position from its position just after the "Snowball Earth" deposits, it becomes one of the first lagerstattes of the pre CAmbrian time. (A lagerstatte is the name we give to fine grained thin deposits of very well preserved fossils , like the Burgess Shale of Canada).
NOW,if these data are correct, the article actually is saying that the first appearance of complex ANIMALS, predates the "CAmbrian Explosion" by some 50 million years. (Something that Id been saying all along,) the actual development of complex animal life didnt occur in a space of only 10 million years, Now it appears that weve got a period of time that could be as long as 40 to 50 million years in length. This is important data because it implies that the "Cambrian Explosion" may just have been an outdated interpretation of a concept that was based only upon limited fossil location data.As we get more and more fossil locations, the story actually gets knit together much better.

The importance of SMECTITE as a clay mineral found in the Doushantuo Formation is that, for the most part, this clay is quite indicative of environments that are primarily volcanic ash deposits (smectite makes up a clay type called BENTONITE which is an expandable volcanic ash deposit). SO we probably have an ash deposit that could have closed off an arm to an ancient sea and formed a lake of long duration in which some early animal life appeared.All this occured shortly after the entire planet was casting off the evidence of a very large glacial epoch that was almost circum planetary

Im gonna try to find an index of the fossils found in the Chinese Formation to see what genera these old fossils represent. Remember, in the Burgess Shale, most of the fossils dont even have any modern genera with the excption of certain arthropods and a peculiar fossil that could have had the beginnings of a "backbone"

Right now, I gotta get m some bekrass.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:40 am
@panzade,
If you ask questions like that on here panzade you will get meaningless answers such as the one effemm has seen fit to burn our retinas with.

It won't affect the study of evolution. It might affect the discourse about the study of evolution but that is not unlike Paris fashions without the sex. Don't become confused about the place in Greenland always having "been considered" life's kick off point. Many other places have also been considered for that role. It depends on the funding really and who your friends and relations are.

spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 04:43 am
@spendius,
Even effemm found out about the meaningless of his first effort. If we give him a week he will probably come up with a few more versions. Notice the Royal "we".

The correct attitude to adopt panzade is the one Holden Caulfield's tutor adopted when discussing the lad's essay on Egypt.
panzade
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 08:55 am
@spendius,
Quote:
If you ask questions like that on here panzade you will get meaningless answers such as the one effemm has seen fit to burn our retinas with.


I had nowhere else to go spendi. What would you have me do, stifle my inquisitiveness?
I wore my scientific goggles to lessen the damage to my retinas

Quote:
It won't affect the study of evolution.

This made me sad because I realized you hadn't even bothered to read the article I offered,where it is obvious even to Harry Patch that the factors that drove animals to evolve are being questioned.

Quote:
It depends on the funding really and who your friends and relations are.


Such a cynical statement, and not worthy of your obvious intelligence IMO.

panzade
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 08:58 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The correct attitude to adopt panzade is the one Holden Caulfield's tutor adopted when discussing the lad's essay on Egypt.


I am eagerly awaiting your interpretation , as I haven't read Catcher In The Rye since my 6th form days in Wales.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 11:05 am
@panzade,
Quote:
This made me sad because I realized you hadn't even bothered to read the article I offered,where it is obvious even to Harry Patch that the factors that drove animals to evolve are being questioned.


First, I don't believe you were sad.

Look panzade-- whenever I read this sort of thing--

Quote:
Taken together, several lines of evidence indicated to us that these early animals lived in a lake environment."

This discovery raises questions as to how and why animals appeared when they did.


I stop reading there and then. I have neither the time nor the inclination to read tripe of that nature. One cannot go from "indicated to us" to "This discovery".

You inquisitiveness is more that stifled by that sort of thing. It is led up the garden path.

The principle factor which caused organisms to evolve is a total mystery and will remain so. It is the capacity to do so. God's design or an accident of inorganic matter possibly occuring nowhere else in the universe.

Once that capacity exists it is fairly simple to understand the processes by which environments cause the manifold manifestations which result. They are physiological responses to life's will to survive. The details are as complicated as the manifestations are manifold. But that's all they are--complicated. Each detail easy to understand. The capacity to evolve is complex and irreducibly so.

By weaving technical, polysyllabic labels about exotic creatures in exotic locations and providing a sort of breathless urgency to the prose one might prise funds out of an institution which hopes to bask in the reflected glories of "discoveries" of the sort referred to in your link and which all involved have an interest in forgetting that they had only been "indicated to us". (That is the recipients of the funds which cover more than searching the lake.
Possibly quite a lot more.) I'm sure the American composer Harry Patch was astute enough to be aware that these matters are being questioned. Anybody can see that.

Once man became more or less physiologically perfected,(ahem), and Jeremy Button is sufficient proof of that, the process of further evolution took a psychological turn although still subject to physical events such as catastrophic weather or plagues.

No atheist has yet offered an explanation for the marvellous transformation, in a blink of the eye in Darwinian time, from the Venus of Willendorf to, say, Noami Campbell without recourse to a religion.

Bernard Shaw said something about people who call others cynics. Something to do with them having said something they wished they had thought of.

I'm needed urgently outside.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:26 pm
Prof. Erich Heller wrote, in The Ironic German, his brilliant book about Thomas Mann-

Quote:
Ideally speaking, art shares with politics precisely that which distinguishes both from the deliberate rationality of science and the blue-prints of ideological programmes: that it springs from the elemental human need to discipline into articulate form and communicable convention the inarticulate and rationally incommunicable forces of life, the chthonic ground of existence; and a rationality cut off from those roots leads to the corruption of the arts and the degradation of politics. Then both art and politics are exposed in hysterical impotence to the revenge of Nature which, betrayed by the Reason, and indeed as the crowning paradox of the Reason's own manoeuvres, mockingly regains its primeval and unmanageable demonic powers, condemning the speech of the political animal to hectic trivialities in the face of brainwashers, scientifically equipped sadists, and radioactive cataclysms, and the artistic productions of the creative creature to banal anger or desperate distraction and abstraction.


So now you know how Stalin and Hitler both knew what sort of art to approve and what sort to burn. It had to be banal. And it was. And it had to have a simple message. Which it did.

And anti-IDers on here are most certainly banal and simple. They couldn't even read a book like that.

Quote:
Heller was born at Chomutov (German: Komotau) in Bohemia (then within Austria-Hungary, now the Czech Republic), to the family of a Jewish physician. He graduated a doctor of law from the German University in Prague (Deutsche Universität in Prag, Juridische Fakultät) on 11 February 1935, at the age of 23. In 1939 he emigrated to the United Kingdom, where he began his professional career as a Germanist, being active at Cambridge and London (England) and at Swansea (Wales). Heller became a British subject in 1947. From 1960 onwards he was based in the United States, primarily at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, where he was initially Professor of German, and subsequently Avalon Professor of the Humanities until his retirement in 1979.

For Heller, German letters as an academic discipline was something of an avocation, a marriage of convenience to supply a vehicle for the conveyance of thought of a wider scope. He kept a certain distance from the scholarly community around him, believing (with Jacob Burckhardt) this community's pedantry and unremitting quest for precision to be ‘one of the most cunning enemies of truth’, their cumulative effect being ‘the absence of true comprehension’.

spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 12:32 pm
@spendius,
And the phrase "rationally incommunicable" is the reason why these illiterate anti-IDers insist that science will reduce all complexities. Which is a religious belief.

They have to do in order to have a leg to stand on. But those forces of life are rationally incommunicable as a fact so not only do they not have a leg to stand on they betray their asserted belief in rationality and reason. As an extra so to speak.

And the American public know it. The anti-IDers simply take advantage of that public being unable to articulate it as is often the case with gut feelings.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 07:37 pm
@spendius,
who the hell are you even talking at? and about what are you all feverish ?

Arent you mellowed out for the night?
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 07:39 pm
@farmerman,
The public's "gut feelings" are stuffing themselves with MacDonald's burgers and fries. As if they really understood ID, from Creationism, from Evolution. Not.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Tue 28 Jul, 2009 09:32 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Prof. Erich Heller wrote, in The Ironic German, his brilliant book about Thomas Mann-


This is a funny coincidence. My father earned a PhD. in German Literature at Northwestern University in 1966. Erich Heller was the professor who guided my father's dissertation.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 06:42 am
UK UPDATE
Quote:
Evangelical course that treats Nessie as fact endorsed by government agency
(By: Michael Shaw, Times Educational Supplement, July 31, 2009)

Exams for an Evangelical Christian curriculum in which pupils have been taught that the Loch Ness monster disproves evolution and racial segregation is beneficial have been ruled equivalent to international A- levels by a UK government agency.

The National Recognition Information Centre (Naric), which guides universities and employers on the validity of different qualifications, has judged the International Certificate of Christian Education (ICCE) officially comparable to qualifications offered by the Cambridge International exam board.

Hundreds of teenagers at around 50 private Christian schools in Britain study for the certificates, as well as several home-educated students.

The courses are based around the Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) programme, which originated in Texas in the 1970s. Pupils study a range of subjects, including science and English, but spend half their studies learning from Bible-influenced US textbooks, often in isolation from each other, Jonny Scaramanga, a music lecturer who attended an ACE school in Bath as a child, said he was astonished the courses were judged comparable to international A-levels and O-levels.

In a complaint to Naric, he provided examples of the material taught on the courses. These included claims in its science and history textbooks that:
-the Loch Ness monster, which “appears to be a plesiosaur” from photographs, helps to disprove evolution;
-apartheid was beneficial to South Africa; reasons include the claim that segregated schools “made it possible for each group to maintain and pass on their culture and heritage to their children”;
-“unquestionable proofs” and “unarguable evidences” existed for creationism.

Scaramanga said: “Those who challenge the explanations given in the materials are described as ‘godless’, ‘anti-biblical’, and ‘foolish’. There needs to be greater public awareness of what these schools tell students.”

The evangelical content of ACE courses taught in Britain and the US have attracted criticism over the past decade. The scientist Professor Richard Dawkins visited a London school which used the curriculum in 2006. He said he was appalled to learn that pupils were taught that Noah’s Ark was real and that Aids victims were sinners.

But Naric, which is funded by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, nevertheless carried out a "benchmarking exercise” on the ICCE last summer. It ruled that the course’s general certificate, which involves two to three years of study, should be compared to Cambridge International’s O-level at grades C to E; the intermediate certificate to the international O-level at grades A to B; and the advanced certificate to an international A-level.

In a statement on the decision in August 2008, Naric said: “The ICCE are delighted by the results of the project and we feel that this work also helps improve awareness and understanding of such international qualifications.”

Tim Buttress, Naric’s spokesman, told The TES that the agency’s role was to guide universities and employers on the “rigour” of qualifications, but investigating curriculum content was outside its remit.

“It’s like comparing an engineering degree at Luton University and Sheffield Hallam - the degrees are at the same level, but the content may be different,” he said.

However, Brenda Lewis, ICCE chief executive officer in the UK, said tNaric had examined the content. “We were taken aback by how thorough they were,” she said.

British teachers found ACE textbooks useful, she said, but sometimes pointed out comments they regarded as unreasonable to pupils.

Mrs Lewis had not noticed the Loch Ness monster claims, which she suggested may have been a “slip at the typewriter”, adding that the science curriculum had helped a student to gain a place to study natural sciences at Oxford University.

She also said she had never seen the apartheid claims, but stressed that British teachers would strongly challenge them.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 1 Aug, 2009 04:56 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
This is a funny coincidence. My father earned a PhD. in German Literature at Northwestern University in 1966. Erich Heller was the professor who guided my father's dissertation.


All I can say to that wande is that it proves how wide generation gaps can get.
0 Replies
 
 

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