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Latest Challenges to the Teaching of Evolution

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 06:36 pm
@spendius,
We do not "promote" atheism. How does anyone promote atheism in a country where religion is over 90% of the population? Atheists probably represents less than 2% of the population.

If you know how, please teach us.
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 08:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Typical right-wing brain farting -- I don't believe there is anyone on the forum who has any inspiration to promote atheism. It's more of a triviality than the Wayne's World Second Law of Thermodynamics travesty where only one poster (guess who) saw it necessary to write a long, drawn out, boring dissertation.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2009 08:41 pm
@Lightwizard,
It's not only that; we have all arrived at our belief that no god exists in an environment full of religious people. I doubt very much any of my childhood friends or anybody at work ever tried to talk to me about atheism.

All my siblings are christians, married to christians, and all their children are christians.

I believe all of us who are atheists came from a background with most people believing in one religion or another. Mine were buddhists early in my life, then christianity when our mother forced us to attend church when we were still very young. Most of my childhood friends were buddhists. Not once did they try to convert me into buddhism.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 06:46 am
Quote:
Why don’t Americans understand science better? Start with the scientists.
(By Chris Mooney and Sheril Kirshenbaum | The Boston Globe | July 26, 2009)

Earlier this month, the Pew Research Center and the American Association for the Advancement of Science unveiled the latest embarrassing evidence of our nation’s scientific illiteracy. Only 52 percent of Americans in their survey knew why stem cells differ from other kinds of cells; just 46 percent knew that atoms are larger than electrons. On a highly contentious issue like global warming, meanwhile, the gap between scientists and the public was vast: 84 percent of scientists, but just 49 percent of Americans, think human emissions are causing global warming.

Scientists are fond of citing statistics such as these in explaining conflicts between the public and the scientific community. On politicized issues like climate change, embryonic stem cell research, the teaching of evolution, and the safety of vaccines, many Americans not only question scientific expertise but even feel entitled to discard it completely. The reason, many scientists infer, is that the public is just clueless; perhaps we wouldn’t have these problems if the average citizen were better educated, more knowledgeable, better informed.

Yet while scientific illiteracy is nothing to shrug at, the truth is that it’s only part of a broader problem for which scientists themselves must shoulder a significant portion of the responsibility. Decrying ignorance and scientific illiteracy, many scientists treat their fellow citizens as empty vessels waiting for an infusion of knowledge. That is exactly wrong, and exactly why so many people, in turn, see science and scientists as distant, inscrutable, aloof, arrogant. Rather than blaming, scientists ought to be engaging with the public, trying to personally make their knowledge hit home and to instill by example (rather than from a distance) the nature and virtues of the scientific mindset - while also encouraging average Americans to ask their own questions and have their say. Scientists must make it clear that while they don’t have all the answers, science is about searching for the truth, an imperfect process of doing the best one can with the information available, while knowing there is always more to learn - the epitome of humility.

Ask yourself: How much would more scientific literacy help the public, really, in understanding the toughest, most contentious issues? Undoubtedly, the more scientifically literate Americans are, the more they’ll understand newspaper articles about science, and be able to follow public debates. But there’s a limit: Scientific literacy is no shield against anti-evolutionists or global warming deniers, for example, who are often scientists themselves, who couch their arguments in sophisticated scientific language, and who regularly cite articles in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. Having the knowledge equivalent of a PhD is more along the lines of what’s necessary to refute them, and even then, the task requires considerable research and intellectual labor, far more than most people have the time for.

If members of the public aren’t all going to earn PhD’s, they need something else, an attribute the standard “scientific illiteracy” survey questions don’t really measure. We would describe it as a deep and abiding awareness of the importance of the scientific endeavor to their lives and the national future. This means that Americans would be more likely to see - much in the way that scientists currently see - how science-centered developments and controversies will shape the coming decades and guide countless critical political decisions, in areas ranging from energy policy to the ethics of various types of biomedical research.

To that end, Americans should be far more engaged with scientists and what they’re doing. They should know the names of leading researchers (most Americans do not) and the nation’s top scientific agencies (again, most Americans do not). To the extent possible they should know scientists personally, both so they can get a sense of the nature of scientific reasoning and so they feel they are being heard, not just lectured to. Perhaps this way, when it comes to the toughest and most politicized questions, they will better recognize that scientists will not rally around a firm conclusion unless it really is precisely that.

As matters currently stand, though, such reaching out to the public isn’t much rewarded in the scientific community. There’s little incentive for it. Advancement in science doesn’t happen, for the most part, due to one’s public engagement or media skills. Rather, it’s all about your published research: How many papers have you placed into leading journals, and how much are they being cited by other scientists?

There are, admittedly, efforts afoot to change this problem. The National Science Foundation’s decade-old IGERT program - Integrative Graduate Education and Research Traineeship - strives to impart a far broader set of skills to young scientists, and is supporting some of the best courses in the nation to this end. For example, an IGERT-supported course entitled “Climate Change and Marine Ecosystems,” taught at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography by marine biologist Jeremy Jackson, introduces young scientists not only to the research on climate change, biodiversity, and conservation, but also to economic thinking, policy realities, the nature of the modern media, and even the work of filmmakers, improv comedians, and Internet organizers.

However, the IGERT program is a shadow of what it could be: At present, the program disburses about 20 grants per year, yet each funding cycle, the NSF reports receiving more than 400 preliminary IGERT proposals.

We need an entirely new project of public outreach on the part of the scientific community. It shouldn’t require every academic scientist to go door to door - not all will be interested in this work, and not all will be good at it. Rather, it should centrally focus on training those young researchers who are not destined for academic jobs - their numbers are growing today, as academic opportunities decline - so that they’re ideal emissaries for bringing science to the rest of society.

The enthusiasm is already there in the youngest generation of American scientists, who want to give something back. Some will become our next crop of great researchers - yet some don’t want to follow in the footsteps of their professors, and are ideal candidates for becoming liaisons between science and society. But finding careers for them in public outreach is another matter entirely. As the free market surely won’t do it, universities, philanthropists, and scientific societies must create these careers - and of course, we need the help of government as well.

Ultimately, all of this could lead to nothing less than a substantial redefinition of the role of the scientist in public life. No longer merely a distant voice of authority, the scientist could also become an everyday guide and ally, a listener as much as a lecturer. There’s no doubt members of the public must become much more knowledgeable about science and its importance. But scientists must also become far more involved with - and knowledgeable about - the public.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 07:05 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
Why don’t Americans understand science better? Start with the scientists.
(By Chris Mooney and Sheril Kirshenbaum | The Boston Globe | July 26, 2009)

Rather than blaming, scientists ought to be engaging with the public, trying to personally make their knowledge hit home and to instill by example (rather than from a distance) the nature and virtues of the scientific mindset - while also encouraging average Americans to ask their own questions and have their say. Scientists must make it clear that while they don’t have all the answers, science is about searching for the truth, an imperfect process of doing the best one can with the information available, while knowing there is always more to learn - the epitome of humility.

This is exactly why those of us who do have a decent grasp of science should continue to make ourselves heard (on A2K and everywhere). It's not just the scientists who need to share their knowledge, but that portion of the population which is already enthusiastic and optimistic about science and the future.

Ignorance and pessimism grow like weeds, but real knowledge requires cultivation and attention. Kids love this stuff. They are like little scientists, they question everything and want to know how things work. But somewhere along the line many of them lose interest in skepticism and settle on easy answers (often the wrong answers). It's probably human nature to be preoccupied with things in life other than academic curiosity, but I think it helps if that portion of the population which still retains this sense of wonder and discovery display the value of their world-view with pride.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 09:33 am
@rosborne979,
ros, I agree; the emphasis needs to be on our kids, because all the grown-ups are already fixed in their minds on creationism. It's easier to educate 1,000 kids over one adult.
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 09:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
A teacher has to come across with an non-intimidating approach to science, or history and math (the other "I don't need that to survive boring subjects"). What's important with evolution is to inspire the few in the class who will take the direction of science. I don't believe it is in their realm to convert anyone away from any religion and I've never had a teacher or professor who did that. If the kids are given the correct scientific information, let them process it, but I know that's what the IDiots and CreatioNuts fear. By attrition, their religious viewpoint on the origin of species and man is slowly waning. They are striking back with even more, now old and tired, idiotic "science" and I think it's backfiring on them.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 10:14 am
@Lightwizard,
I'm aware that teachers teach in non-threatening ways. They don't even have to disparage religion (they can't anywhos) when they teach science.

Good teachers know how to create interest in almost any subject. I used to hate History in grade school; memorize dates, people and places without any regards to the whys and their relationships to contemporary times.

My interest in History perked up when I started to travel around the world. I have found that no matter where one travels, most cultures are in some ways interconnected by their history. There are even inter-relationships between the three greats of Europe and Asia; Tamarin, Alexander the Great, and Genghis Khan and ruled almost the same territories at different times.

Good teachers know how to motivate the students to further pursue the subject on their own.

However, during this economic crisis, it's going to be more difficult to teach students properly when funding to education continues on its downward spiral.



0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 10:50 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
If you know how, please teach us.


Of course I know. It is simply that it is not allowed. And you couldn't do it anyway because of your residual Christianity. And I have dropped hints all along these threads right from the very beginning.

But you have ignored them all or labelled them trolling or boring or idiotic or, effemms's favourite, mental masturbation. Well you would wouldn't you? How facile. It is proof of anti-IDers lack of knowledge that they deploy such fatuous arguments. Year after year. The same at 60 or 70 as they were at 16.

Any fool can assert that someone knows nothing about science, evolution, religion and history. One doesn't need to know anything about any of those things to blurt out assertions of that nature. I feel quite sure that Mr Jindal knows more about those matters that you anti-IDers put together. By a factor of 1,000. At least.

You have made the gross error of thinking that religion can be thought of in isolation. For simplicity's sake of course. In fact it is intimately connected to every aspect of life. As I have previously said, you think the bus came from around the corner at the lights.

Our lovely de Sade has one of his war profiteers kick his long time mistress out because she expressed reservations about his plan to reduce half of France to famine to further his ends.

What has it got to do with me that you anti-IDers, who have to be promoting atheism, despite your denials, arrived at the conclusion that you knew everything there was to know about these matters long before you ever knew anything significant about them at all because it was oh so easy and you had pychological reasons for doing so.

2% eh? I didn't think it was quite that deviant.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 11:02 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
We need an entirely new project of public outreach on the part of the scientific community. It shouldn’t require every academic scientist to go door to door - not all will be interested in this work, and not all will be good at it. Rather, it should centrally focus on training those young researchers who are not destined for academic jobs - their numbers are growing today, as academic opportunities decline - so that they’re ideal emissaries for bringing science to the rest of society.


Missionaries. Like priests why do public outreach on the part of their theological masters. Pie in the sky.

Where is INGERT based wande--it's not on Google. Is it anywhere near Boston?





0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 02:22 pm
@spendius,
Dude, do you ever read your own posts? They are shallow, meandering, and rarely make sense. There is no substance to your posts and they are a real bore.

Please, stop posting while you're drunk. It just makes you look stupid.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 02:28 pm
@kuvasz,
The problem with spendi is that it doesn't matter whether he's sober or drunk; his posts rarely make sense, and when it does, it's by accident.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 02:50 pm
@kuvasz,
Thank you kuvasz. I'll bear it in mind.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2009 02:57 pm
@spendius,
No, you won't; you'll go half-cocked as always.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 07:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
I consider it full-cocked when you and kuvasz respond to this-

Quote:
Where is INGERT based wande--it's not on Google. Is it anywhere near Boston?


with your asinine drivel.

Are you trying to throw A2Kers off the scent? Enabling them not to know so to speak. It would be of significance if INGERT and the Boston newspaper wande quoted had intimate connections. It would help us to appreciate the article.

You have been eager enough to suggest connections between individuals and institutions in relation to the war in Iraq.

Your scientific integrity is completely at the mercy of your subjectivity which is an excellent reason for real scientists to be dismayed at you having the temerity to speak on their behalf.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 09:21 am
What is "INGERT?" Is that something one can search on Google? Sometimes separating the word will come up with some hits, in this case, a description of fornicating with Gert (damn acronyms, they can't spell out the poor woman's full name nor the Pope who's ******* her).

http://www.igert.org/
Lightwizard
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 09:32 am
http://www.nsf.gov/about/

WHERE DISCOVERIES BEGIN

The American people recognized that scientists and engineers had helped win World War II. Penicillin and the atomic bomb were but the two best known of the many contributions made by the research community. With the coming of peace, the challenge facing politicians and researchers alike was how to ensure that science and engineering would continue both to expand the frontiers of knowledge and serve the American people. The answer was the National Science Foundation (NSF), established in 1950, which continues to be the only federal agency dedicated to the support of fundamental research and education in all scientific and engineering disciplines. Charged with making certain that the United States maintains leadership in scientific discovery and the development of new technologies, the NSF has provided funding for thousands of distinguished scientists and engineers to conduct groundbreaking research, including more than 170 Nobel Prize Winners

(It's located in Washington, DC, for the IDiots in our midst).

http://www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/mmg_disp.cfm?med_id=65196

spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 02:15 pm
@Lightwizard,
Sorry. The "N" was a stupid error. IGERT is Integrative Graduate Education and Research Traineeship.

No wonder Google didn't do me much good. It isn't much better now.

I am very suspicious of newspaper editorials. And with good reason. Our local evening paper is owned, along with about 80 other provincial newspapers, in London, and its editorials often promote London interests and not ours. We have been sold the lottery, low interest rates, the Olympic Games and driving the women into a fashion consumption frenzy.

Large media conglomerates have a vested interest in promoting a decline in religious values. Hence their editorial line stems from head office no matter how local they look. The writers are generally paid hacks who will sing whatever the piper tells them to. They may even be selected on that basis.

I presume it is similar in the US.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:24 pm
@Lightwizard,
Quote:
(It's located in Washington, DC, for the IDiots in our midst).


IDiots are in charge of it LW. Did you not know? Which president since 1950 was an anti-IDer?

And IDiots are all in favour of the support of fundamental research and education in all scientific and engineering disciplines providing it is supervised by the political process. Which it is as a federal agency.

In fact IDiots see anti-ID as discrediting science and thus anathema to the NSF.

I certainly see the anti-IDers in that role. By pressing for things people do not want they are giving science a bad name.

Have any spokespersons for the NSF been quoted on these threads supporting anti-ID and ridiculing religion.

Are you suffering under the delusion that IDiots are against scientific research and the development of new technologies? That's a rather large pile of straw I must say.

Do you really think that the NSF wants people as confused as you are speaking up on their behalf?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Jul, 2009 03:29 pm
Evolution theory is neither here nor there. It's child's play.

It's a sort of cosmetic for the wannabee psuedo-scientific who thinks he understands it. (A ten minute explanation suffices. Twenty for those with IQs below 90.)
 

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