McCain's VP:

@Cycloptichorn,

We will know in November if that is true. Looking forward to the debates that hopefully will focus on real issues instead of gotcha personal attacks between the candidates.

1 Reply

@Berger,

Berger wrote:

We will know in November if that is true. Looking forward to the debates that hopefully will focus on real issues instead of gotcha personal attacks between the candidates.

I agree. I think the debates will be interesting, to say the least. I would remind people that neither Obama nor McCain was the best debater in the world, in the primaries; but Obama clearly got better in the one-on-ones he held with Clinton in the later days of the campaign.

This week, we've seen a focus on issues - the economy - and it certainly seems to be benefiting Obama so far. We'll see if that holds up.

Cycloptichorn

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NBC news fact-checks Palin and the McCain camp's claims about her, and let's face it, it isn't pretty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#26759502

No smears, no sliming, just pointing out lies she's told.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Politics as usual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY5CQnOn75c

1 Reply

@Berger,

Berger wrote:

Politics as usual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY5CQnOn75c

You do know that was debunked, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Brodie

Cycloptichorn

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@Berger,

What would you consider the high point of the last 7 1/2 years?

Bush interrupting his vacation to sign a law regarding Terri Schiavo?

Warrantless wiretapping?

Extraordinary rendition?

Torture?

Vetoing a ban on waterboarding?

Loyalty oaths for those attending Republican political rallies?

A record number of signing statements allowing Bush to ignore laws that he just signed?

Harriet Miers?

Congratulating the head of FEMA for how he was handling hurricane Katrina?

Firing federal prosecutors for political reasons?

Allowing North Korea to develop nuclear weapons?

Calling for elections in the Palestinian territories, attempting to dissolve the government that was then elected, then arming the opposition party, which basically ended up arming Hamas after they tore Fatah a new one? (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804 for you viewing pleasure)

Or was there some other pleasant memory you have stashed away?

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad, Your list is worthless to the conservatives, because they don't believe in anything 'negative' about Bush or McCain.

I wish some psychiatrists would do a study on these conflicts between reality and perception. Look at all the conservatives who still believe our economy is still fundamentally strong - while millions continue to lose their jobs, homes, health insurance, while paying much more for food and fuel while wages stay pretty much stagnant. It takes a special kind of mind to divorce reality from perception.

I think that would be an interesting study.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I wish some psychiatrists would do a study on these conflicts between reality and perception.

BBB posted a very interesting article on that very subject, by a psychologist no less.

http://able2know.org/topic/122623-1#post-3404702

Although I do think the economy is fundamentally strong. Not that the President has much to do with it in any case.

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@Berger,

Berger wrote:

Palin isn't ignoring the subpoenas. She is challenging the legitimacy of them in court. Do you understand the difference?

You're misinformed. A lawsuit was filed by five republican legislators seeking to restrain the state legislative branch from investigating ethics complaints against the governor. The lawsuit is frivolous. After all, the state legislature has power to investigate alleged abuses of government power by executive branch officers. Note the following:

Quote:

The Constitution of the State of Alaska

Article 2 - The Legislature

§ 20. Impeachment

All civil officers of the State are subject to impeachment by the legislature. Impeachment shall originate in the senate and must be approved by a two-thirds vote of its members. The motion for impeachment shall list fully the basis for the proceeding. Trial on impeachment shall be conducted by the house of representatives. A supreme court justice designated by the court shall preside at the trial. Concurrence of two-thirds of the members of the house is required for a judgment of impeachment. The judgment may not extend beyond removal from office, but shall not prevent proceedings in the courts on the same or related charges.

Having the constitutional power to conduct impeachment proceedings, the legislature has the concomittant power to investigate charges to determine whether there is a basis for such a proceeding. Additionally, the separation of powers doctrine prohibits the judicial branch from interfering with the constitutional powers of the legislative branch. Thus, the lawsuit is wholly without merit. They filed the lawsuit for the purpose of delay. This lawsuit has NOTHING to do with the subpoenas that were lawfully issued by the legislative committee in charge of the investigation.

The Republican Attorney General Talis Colberg wrote to the committee chairman and asked him to withdraw the subpoenas. The AG also informed the chairman that the subpoenaed state employees would refuse to appear unless either the full state Senate or the entire Legislature votes to compel their testimony. They have NOT filed any motion or petition with any court to quash the subpoenas. (They have no legal grounds to support such a motion.)

The AG ignores the fact that the subpoenas were issued in accordance with the law. If the subpoenaed person fails to appear, the committee may then refer the matter to the full senate for a vote on contempt. If the majority votes to hold the person in contempt, the person will be immediately arrested and held in jail until the person agrees to appear and give testimony as required by law. This is a REMEDIAL procedure. In other words, the contemptnor holds the keys to his jail cell in his own pocket.

But, that doesn't end the matter. The person who fails to appear may also face CRIMINAL charges for refusing to appear. This is a PUNITIVE procedure. The law seeks to punish and the maximum penalty is six months in prison.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

CI wrote: "I wish some psychiatrists would do a study on these conflicts between reality and perception...."

I was watching c-span earlier this evening. A congressman from TN vehemently accused "left-wing EXTREMISTS" (e.g., the Sierra Club, environmentalists) for the energy crisis and gas that costs $4.99 a gallon. He alleged that these EXTREMISTS, who file lawsuits to protect the environment, are responsible for our reliance on foreign oil. <--How do nuts like that get elected?

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@DrewDad,

Low taxes and interest rates, taking on the terrorists and making it possible for Iraqis to depose their dictatorship and install a freely elected democratic style government now on the verge of being self sufficient, defeating the Taliban allowing free elections in Afghanistan, and a personal continued high standard of living in a country where all of sound mind and body have the OPPORTUNITY to choose the level of financial success they want to invest the sweat to earn. Just for starters.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

I think you will find that Palin is represented by a lawyer who has filed papers with the court that includes the aforementioned emails.

My bet is that Palin will not be sanctioned in any way for firing the employee who served at her pleasure and displeased her with his insubordination. We shall just have to wait and see what the court rules.

1 Reply

@Berger,

Berger wrote:

I think you will find that Palin is represented by a lawyer who has filed papers with the court that includes the aforementioned emails.

My bet is that Palin will not be sanctioned in any way for firing the employee who served at her pleasure and displeased her with his insubordination. We shall just have to wait and see what the court rules.

It doesn't matter if Palin WANTS to present emails to the court. The court doesn't have the power to interfere with the legislative branch investigation. Again, she is NOT being investigated for firing an employee who served at her pleasure. She is being investigated for abuse of power--an ethics violation.

1 Reply

@Berger,

Berger wrote:

It is a an attempt to scare voters about Palin's temperment with a political witch hunt masquerading as an objective investigation.

Sure, its an attempt to scare the voters. That's why the Obama camp got the GOP legislature to start the investigation before anyone knew Palin was going to be McCain's pick.

Your statement doesn't even make any sense Berger. It ignores some pretty simple facts like the timing of the investigation compared to when McCain picked her out of the blue.

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@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

The court doesn't have the power to interfere with the legislative branch investigation.

The court does have the power, IMO, how they will rule is another matter.

Again, she is NOT being investigated for firing an employee who served at her pleasure. She is being investigated for abuse of power--an ethics violation.

For firing an employee, who served at her pleasure, for her own personal reasons.

1 Reply

Palin Blames Lobbyists Like Her Campaign Manager For The Failure Of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac»
During his interview with Gov. Sarah Palin (R-AK), Fox’s Sean Hannity asked Palin if she believed an investigation was needed into the “relationships between political donations from Fannie and Freddie Mac and the bankruptcy.” Hannity’s question was presumably inspired by Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) recent emphasis on the significant number of campaign contributions that the two firms have made in recent years.

Tonight, however, Palin played down the role that campaign contributions might have played in the Fannie-Freddie collapse. Instead, she emphasized “the role that lobbyists play in an issue like this”:

HANNITY: Should there be an investigation in terms of the relationship between the political donations and then of course the bankruptcy that ensued and the impact on the economy?

PALIN: I think that’s significant, but even more significant is the role that the lobbyists play in an issue like this also. And in that cronyism " it’s symptomatic of the greater problem that we see right now in Washington and that is just that acceptance of the status quo.

Watch it:

While Palin blames the need for the Fannie-Freddie bailout on the two firms’ lobbyists, she seems more than willing to take those same lobbyists’ money. In fact, at least 20 McCain-Palin fundraisers “have lobbied on behalf of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” in recent years.

More significantly, the McCain-Palin campaign manager, Rick Davis, “served as president of an advocacy group led by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” that worked to cripple regulatory initiatives in Congress and protect the two institution’s “healthy profits.” As the Politico reported in July:

Davis headed the Homeownership Alliance, a lobbying association that included Fannie, Freddie, nonprofit groups, real estate agents, homebuilders and consumer advocates. … [The group] worked to oppose congressional efforts to tighten controls on Fannie and Freddie.

Digg It!

Transcript:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/17/palin-blames-davis/

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@Berger,

So, you support cherry-picking intelligence and deliberately misleading the American people into an unneccesary war. Gotcha.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

No.

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@Berger,

Berger wrote:

Debra Law wrote:

The court doesn't have the power to interfere with the legislative branch investigation.

The court does have the power, IMO, how they will rule is another matter.

Again, she is NOT being investigated for firing an employee who served at her pleasure. She is being investigated for abuse of power--an ethics violation.

For firing an employee, who served at her pleasure, for her own personal reasons.

It is unethical for her to use her personal power to target employees, and fire them for refusing to break the law. That's why it's an ETHICS investigation.

I get that Republicans have a hard time understanding that, though, given the lack of ethics that their leaders display. It must be baffling that someone actually expects people to act in a decent manner.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

What law did Palin ask anyone to violate?

1 Reply

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