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The 2008 Democrat Convention

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:35 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

Punish how?

By illustrating exactly how angry and volatile he can be?
McCain will only punish himself.



Punishment without getting physical or angry.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 04:38 am
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/cvn_conventions_the_bounce;_ylt=AqzzrN4OGukWyI7ON6RJx0KmG78C
Talk about post-convention bounce.
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:27 am
Gore: 'I believe in recycling' but McCain recycling Bush is ridiculous'
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:48 am
@Lash,
OK, so I watched it, live. Was a bit of a mess -- sozlet really needs her sleep and will be seeing Obama in person on Saturday so she agreed not to watch. She actually said she preferred to just sleep and not miss school (I told her she'd have to miss a couple of hours of school if she stayed up for it). BUT, after she went to bed, she woke up, just as it started. So I had to decide whether to try to get her back to sleep -- and stay with her for a possibly long time -- or just go ahead and watch it, with her. Decided what the heck. (E.G.'s words -- "a year from now, what will she remember? this or that she missed a couple of hours of school?")

I had a different reaction to this one than to the 2004 convention speech or his recent race speech. They wowed me for different reasons. The 2004 speech was so refreshing -- so different from what was going on at the time. The race speech was Obama digging down deep and saying some things that were politically dangerous but also true. That was one where he'd lead up to something and I'd think "is he really going there...?" and I'd watch nervously, because it would be disappointing if he backed off but so risky if he did follow through, and he'd say it and it would be the perfect pitch and I was just incredibly impressed.

Some of the things I said to E.G. last night:

- This felt too external to me. CNN and everyone had all of these interviews where they'd ask people (Hillary Clinton supporters, Republican "strategists," etc.) what Obama needed to say in his speech. It seemed like he watched all of those interviews, made a list, and then carefully checked off everything from the list. This might have been necessary. I don't know. I think it took away from the speech's power, though.

- I didn't like the thing about how he won't criticize McCain's motivations. I was reminded later -- must've been the New Yorker because that's the only thing I read after the speech -- that he said something a bit ago about how he will never do that, and asking McCain to do the same. (McCain hasn't responded, so far as I know.) Anyway, I think that's fair game. McCain said something sane about Roe vs. Wade in 1999 and has been running away from it since -- WHY? McCain helped write an immigration bill that he later said he'd vote against -- WHY? This is part of a larger narrative that I think is a good one for the Dems. Maybe Biden will take it up, but then he'd just be contradicting Obama and that's not good, right? So I didn't like that.

- The fighting spirit stuff was evidently good from reactions but not a surprise to me so didn't affect me much.

- The promise/ dream stuff got me. The one time I was really emotional. I said "finally!" to E.G. and he nodded. I'm glad he got that in there.

- I've watched so many stump speeches that the standard Obama stuff doesn't really get me anymore -- I recognized a lot of lines. (I think the "no red states/ no blue states/ united states" line worked especially well in the context of soldiers fighting together though, that was a good section.) I guess this is the uber stump speech, right? There are people who are just tuning in to this process.

- Basically my conclusion was that as a speech, it didn't wow ME that much, but that it might have done exactly what it was intended to do. And it was certainly delivered well.


Now, reactions afterwards (I watched maybe 10 minutes) were rapturous. David Gergen called it a symphony -- high notes, low notes, yadda yadda. Begala was positively gushing. Anderson Cooper said something about Kool-aid.

Haven't read that many responses this morning. But that's half (at least a quarter) of the battle IMO -- wowing the media, who then filter to the people who didn't see the speech. So if he wowed the media, and wowed people just tuning in, that's more important than wowing me.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 05:59 am
Exactly, Soz. Didn't really "wow" me either. My wife loved it, but I think she is actually more prone to overlook anything I may see as weaknesses in things like public speaking appearances. I think he went on a bit long - I think he had 'em at a high note, and ended on a not so high one - a big part of oratory is knowing when to stop. Bill Clinton's first appearance at a National convention is an illustration.
I liked a lot of the things he did in the speech - he let himself get a little worked up over having his patriotism questioned, for instance. He drew pretty stark lines of difference between him and McSame; for those with ears to hear, he included several specifics about what he meant by "change".

...AND, I would be amiss if I didn't mention...

DAMN!!!!! A BLACK MAN AS THE NOMINEE OF A MAJOR PARTY FOR PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.!!! WHOO-FRIKKIN-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 06:07 am
@snood,
I know. So great...! I think I got the full emotional wallop of that when Bernice King gave her speech, followed up by her brother. Also interviews with James Clyburn.
squinney
 
  5  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 06:31 am
I haven't been listening to Obama until now.

I was wowed.

There was something in that stadium that was instinctive, not planned or scripted. You don't script 75,000 people. The energy, excitement and (what?) ... Hope? Empowerment?

While I thought his speech was great, and some here thought it was only good, what matters is that people across the nation are ready for a positive, looking ahead platform. Obama is delivering that.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 06:36 am
@squinney,
Hi squinney,

Cool! I'm glad that's what you got from it.

I guess it's mostly that I have been wowed by Obama for a while now Smile and this didn't take anything to the next level of wowedness. The movement aspect, the positivity and hope, is part of what's wowed me, for sure. I love that, and have loved being right in the thick of it (volunteering for the campaign, etc.)

You're exactly the kind of person whose opinion I'm interested in here -- someone who hasn't really been listening to Obama until now, the "just tuning in" demographic. So I'm thrilled that you were wowed.

Hey, you'd make a super-great community organizer... hint hint... Wink
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 07:12 am
@squinney,
I was going to say that I think this speech was for the people that don't already know him and that I think it was particularly powerful and effective. A lot of it was not news to me. People are always saying he doesn't give specifics but he has before and I've heard them so those were old news to me, but apparently not for others. So I see why he did that. I think that he nailed it when you consider who the intended audience was. Even though I've heard a lot of this stuff before, I had kind of tuned out for a while after the primaries. This speech reminded me why I support him.

I think the pre-buttal of the Republican arguments was particularly effective. It was so powerful that when, minutes later, CNN read McCain's statement it sounded like a pathetic whimper. It brought to mind that scene in 8 Mile where Eminem takes the mike and says basically, yeah, you're going to say all this stuff about me, I know, I know, etc... then gives the mike to the other guy and says "now tell these people something they don't already know about me". Of course, he's speechless.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 07:39 am
I didn't get to see the speech last night because I was working.... but if squinney was wowed I will probably like it because she hasn't been all worshipful of the guy and we are usually pretty close on these kinds of things.... I will find a replay and watch it today.

I'm going to vote for him and I'd like to feel good about it so I will give the speech a real chance to make me finally feel good about something besides Biden being on the ticket.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 07:51 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
You know, I was never all excited about Biden. But after hearing him talk and finding out more about him, I have to say that I think Obama made an excellent choice. Of course, one of the reasons I like Obama is that I believe that he makes good decisions (and that's what the presidency is all about), and this decision really makes that point.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 08:29 am
And to bring the numbers up to date, Rasmussen is reporting a Convention bounce for Obama at this time:

Quote:
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows Barack Obama attracting 46% of the vote nationwide while John McCain earns 43%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 49% and McCain 45% (see recent daily results). Sign up for a free daily e-mail update.

This is Obama’s biggest lead since late July, when he opened up a six-point advantage following his summer speech in Berlin. A separate story looks at the Obama bounce. Other data released this morning shows that Democrats are happier now than before the convention with the choice of Joe Biden as Obama’s running mate. Overall, 74% of Democrats say their convention has unified the party.

Data to be released at noon Eastern today will show the Michelle Obama is now viewed more favorably than before (Premium Members can get an advance look at the data).

Full demographic crosstabs featuring tracking poll results by gender, age, race, ideology, party, most important issues, religious beliefs and more are available to Premium Members via the Daily Snapshot. There’s just three more days to save with summer rates on Premium Memberships. Sign up now and save. Learn More.

In the days Obama named his running mate, Rasmussen Markets data showed Biden to be the clear favorite. There has been no clear favorite to be McCain’s running mate, but Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, and Mitt Romney have each topped the list in the last twelve hours. Palin is now seen by the markets as the most likely prospect. Polling data shows that 67% of American voters have no opinion of the Alaska Governor.

Tracking poll results are based upon nightly telephone interviews and reported on a three-day rolling average basis. Today’s update is based upon interviews conducted Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday night. Virtually all of the interviews were completed before Obama’s acceptance speech last night. Tracking Polls are released at 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time each day.

Obama is now viewed favorably by 56% of the nation’s voters, McCain by 53% (see trends). Other key stats of Election 2008 can still be seen at Obama-McCain: By the Numbers. Data from Rasmussen Markets currently gives Obama a 62.0% chance of winning the White House.

The Rasmussen Reports Balance of Power Calculator currently shows Obama leading in states with 193 Electoral College votes while McCain leads in states with 183 votes (see Quick Campaign Overview). When leaners are included, it’s Obama 264, McCain 247

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:15 am
@sozobe,
Last night I was thinking about Martin Luther King Jr and the "I have a dream..." speech, as well as remembering the horrendous fight to guarantee black people voter registration rights in the Southern states. And then Obama walked out on the stage, accepted the nomination, and I felt the tears of joy well up inside of me. This was the dream, it was now a reality. This was a very historic moment, for our entire country, and, for me, the emotional impact of this event was very powerful.

Unfortunately, I did not feel any emotional impact from the speech that Obama then gave. I wanted him to sweep me off my feet, and help me put aside my regrets that Hillary wasn't standing on that stage in his place. I wanted him to dispel my lingering doubts about his lack of experience. I wanted him to show me how he would rally people to prevent another Republican take-over of the White House. But, for me, those things just didn't happen last night. He gave a perfectly adequate speech, for the circumstances, but it fell far short of being inspiring or even revealing. He did not say what I needed to hear.

Obama will definitely get my vote in November, but I'd like to be able to give it more whole-heartedly. Most importantly, I want him to show me that his lack of experience is not going to matter because other factors, such as his intelligence, or open-mindedness, or grasp of issues, will help to balance it out. He obviously has enormous emotional appeal for many people, but that is not the same as having true leadership ability. It is not enough to offer "hope" or "change", he has to convince people to follow his specific ideas, attitudes, and proposals. To do that, he must first define himself more, since he does not have an extensive past record for people to look at. In his debates with Hillary Clinton, I felt she seemed much better versed on the issues, and some of his ideas, particularly on foreign policy, struck me as somewhat naive. If McCain makes him seem weak or naive in this area, it will be disasterous. Idealism in foreign policy is admirable, but it's got to be balanced with pragmatism, an appreciation of the constraints inevitably placed on a president, and a thorough knowledge of all of the issues and consequences involved with any possible position. Obama needs to show that he really understands these things. That did not come across to me last night. But, at least, he did point out that McCain's military service, while admirable, did not particularly qualify him to be Commander-in-Chief either.

The entire Democratic tack of simply linking McCain to Bush really seems to me a weak strategy. McCain is not Bush. McCain has to be attacked mainly on his own record, in very specific terms, and not just with phrases like, "He voted with Bush 90% of the time". And, given the fact, that McCain previously admitted he understands little about the economy, doesn't even know how many houses he owns, etc. the Democrats should be able to mop up the floor with him on the major domestic issue. They touched on these things during the convention, but then lapsed back into suggesting we'd be getting four more years of Bush. Thank goodness there is no way on earth we can get four more years of Bush. People need to be convinced we don't want four years of McCain because of who McCain is, what he has done in the past, what he stands for, and where he is likely to lead the nation, in very specific terms.

Make no mistake. I am a dyed-in-the-wool lifelong Democrat. I not only want a Democrat in the White House, I want to feel he will be a very good president, and more than adequately prepared for the job. Obama has two months to convince me before I pull that lever in November, and I want him to convince me, so I can cast that vote without simply seeing him as the lesser of two evils. And, if he can't convince me, he won't garner the votes he needs from independents, and others, that he needs in order to win. I do believe that too much is at stake for our country, and I really don't want to see the Democrats blow another presidential election.

I think the convention got things off to a good start, particularly in terms of party unity, but I think it missed an opportunity to pull harder punches against the Republicans, to actively convince undecided voters, and to present Obama as a genuinely inspiring leader. But, hopefully, the campaign will accomplish all of those things. I am optimistic.



okie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 09:53 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

.....
Unfortunately, I did not feel any emotional impact from the speech that Obama then gave. I wanted him to sweep me off my feet, and help me put aside my regrets that Hillary wasn't standing on that stage in his place. I wanted him to dispel my lingering doubts about his lack of experience. I wanted him to show me how he would rally people to prevent another Republican take-over of the White House. But, for me, those things just didn't happen last night. He gave a perfectly adequate speech, for the circumstances, but it fell far short of being inspiring or even revealing. He did not say what I needed to hear.
....


Actually, alot of his laundry list sounded pretty Republicanish. For all the talk about change, when he finally gets to specifics, it sounded pretty much like same old same old run of the mill stuff, which actually is comforting to me, because all of this change stuff means what, change to what? I happen to think the country is a pretty good place now, and so whats all the beating of the chest for change?

He talked about the opportunities he had, he is living proof what a poor kid born into a poor family could achieve in this country, through education and work. So why run down the country, after knowing what you can achieve? Sheesh, what more can a country do for a person, guarantee a monthly paycheck for doing nothing? So I think his entire speech proved his change mantra to be pretty vaccuous and always has been pretty empty, nothing more than a chant to work up the emotions, and when his laundry list was ticked off, big deal, we are back to tweaking a pretty good system, not changing it entirely.

But underneath it all, there is the lurking suspicion that he really does have something more than tweaking the system, but he isn't rolling it out now, which makes him less than honest. Which brings us back to the question, Who is Obama?
Gargamel
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:08 am
@okie,
Quote:
I happen to think the country is a pretty good place now, and so whats all the beating of the chest for change?


This just in--America in Super Totally Awesome Excellent Shape: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26454398
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:21 am
@Gargamel,
It's no surprise that the tax rebates was a temporary fix; Americans needs jobs, not a one time handout. All our government accomplished was to increase the debt that our children and grandchildren will be paying off, and exacerbating inflation. There's no cure for stupid.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:39 am
I was impressed with Obama's acceptance speech. The DNC was an overwhelming success.

I'm sitting here listening to McCain's choice, Palin, on CNN . . . and . . . she's coming across as a moron. If McCain, 72 years old, suddenly kicks the bucket . . . she's the one that he chose to take his place? I'm scared.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:48 am
@Debra Law,
I wonder who has the better odds of dying while president, McCain or Obama.
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  3  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 10:53 am
@maporsche,
ask yourself who you'd rather have as president...Joe Biden or this prom queen who's wearing my first wife's hairdo from 1966?
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:09 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
I like Biden....and don't really know enough about Palin to like/dislike her.

You have to admit BPB, that she is pretty cute (20 years my elder, but cute)
 

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