The 2008 Democrat Convention

@okie,

Okie.

You are back the the "marxist" argument that you used all the time when you first showed up here. It was ridiculous then and is ridiculous now.

Hell.. Let's play your game...

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Fascists exist, they are plentiful in some places around the country, I believe, such as Oklahoma.

Fascists constantly look for new ways to package their product, and new personalities to push their agenda.

Okie fits the mold. For now, I think he is a certifiable, nothing more, but the reason I look at these people with such a jaundiced eye is because many fascists cannot be totally honest about all of their beliefs, because if they did, they wouldn't win.
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Makes perfects sense, doesn't it okie? Now that we have labeled you I guess we know where you are coming from and we only need to look for the code words.

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For whatever reasons the Clintons still holds sway in the democratic party, all the damage against Obama has already happened. It won't matter what Hillary says tonite; most have already made up their minds. Damage control is too late; the Clintons made sure of that. The voters who wanted Hillary and don't want Obama made up their minds long before now. That many will vote for McCain instead shows how ignorant most voters are. Religion and politics are never logical.

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@parados,

You left out the challenge to "prove otherwise."

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@JTT,

Neither party gets things right all the time...I was contrasting the basic philosophies.

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Just came across this...

Quote:

Aides say Obama's main priority has been preparing the speech he will deliver Thursday night at the giant Invesco Field, home of the Denver Broncos football team.

The stakes are high for his address: He is the first black candidate to win a major party's nomination, accepting the nomination on the 45th anniversary of Rev. Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech. And it was his soaring address at the 2004 Democratic convention in Boston that catapulted the formerly unknown Senate candidate to national prominence. The speech also offered Obama the best platform yet to persuade skeptical voters that he understands middle class concerns.

Obama has intentionally downplayed expectations for his performance. But his actions have belied his words.

Obama has worked late into the evening several days in a row on the speech, editing the final draft while polishing its delivery. He's consulted on the draft with senior strategist David Axelrod and speechwriter Jon Favreau but has done most of the preparation himself.

This is gonna be good...

1 Reply

@sozobe,

Good grief. Buys stock in Kleenex. Very Happy

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@Lash,

The anniversary aspect is pretty amazing, isn't it?

Automatic goosebumps.

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More bounce talk.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26408501/

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@Lash,

Quote:

Neither party gets things right all the time...I was contrasting the basic philosophies.

Come on, Lash, you're way more savvy than that. You know that there has never been a bigger group pf phuck-ups than those of the last eight years. No where even close.

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@JTT,

Biden et al believed Saddam Hussein needed to be taken out. Suddenly, everybody forgets what we all thought back then. If the intel had been right, perceptions about Bush and Co would be completely different. Almost the whole of Congress agreed with Bush then.

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@Lash,

I didn't think it back then. And a lot of us didn't, and turns out that our claims that the intel was bullshit were right. Please remember that when you say 'we all thought.' A large percentage of us most certainly didn't.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

"Us" = congress and the majority of Americans as polled at the time.

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@Lash,

Yeah, that's what will happen when the president uses his power to lie and whip people up into fear, after 9/11. Which is exactly what they did, and you know it.

It isn't as if I wasn't a Bush supporter before that; I had been wavering some, but the day he was asked about catching Bin Laden, and said 'it's not that important,' he lost me forever; and I was right, when I said that night to my pop, 'this whole thing is just an excuse to him.' Just an excuse to start a war of opportunity.

You should admit that the ones supposedly 'cooking dinner,' your party, got their heads lost in dreams of the future, and burnt the pot roast.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

I can easily admit that the wrong intel led us into a war that has really hurt us in a multitude of ways....trying to set the dinner table for the folks down the street...

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@Lash,

Quote:

...etc underlines the basic difference in the GOP and Dems....Realists (the way it is) vs Idealists (the way it should be).

I don't think there's a party philosophy that doesn't seek to improve the situation, to work towards a better future. And certainly both Republicans as well as Democrats are idealists in some regard.

Take the whole Middle East thing: the Republican line at the time was that democracy in the region is actually achievable. That a dictator can be toppled, that Iraqis can be liberated, that regime change is a swift and easy thing. And that after that, other regimes in the region will just follow suit, will crumble and fall. I'd certainly call that idealism.

Same's certainly true for Democrats - it's just different priorities. Issues like universal health care come to mind. Or energy independence, mostly based on renewable energy. Stuff like that.

1 Reply

@old europe,

I think the GOP's m.o. in the Middle East was rooted in Realism: " Saddam Hussein is going to ultimately hurt the US, likely by providing safe haven for terrorists and supplying them with training, training grounds, and weapons." It was the basic "best defense is a strong offense" dealio.

I did think democracy would spread there, once it was rooted in Iraq. Oddly, it spread in the Eastern European countries, instead...

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@Lash,

Not all that odd, if you think about it. See, the people who lived there self-determined that this is the way they wanted to go with things. We, in the middle east, decided to impose a Democracy upon them; not much of a success rate in imposing things on people though, I fear.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

That imposition wasn't our primary goal...it's what we had to do when we beheaded their government. That, or install a shah....Hussien, Jr wasn't available...

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@Lash,

Well, even you would have thought, at the time, that the reasons given by the administration were all true, all based in reality - how does that make the perspective for the future, as proposed by the administration back then, less idealistic? You know, all the talk about how the war would be over in three months maximum, how Americans would be welcomed as liberators, how the reconstruction would be paid for by revenues from selling Iraqi oil, how the dominoes would be falling all over the Middle East?

Then of course, you could argue that not even the premise of the war was based on a realistic assessment of the situation....

1 Reply

@Lash,

Is this one of those things that maybe we should have thought about before hand? Yeah. Did they? No, it's quite obvious that they didn't. In their zealous lust for war in Iraq, the long-term situation wasn't given much thought. Today we are seeing the effects of that.

The knock against Bush and the Republicans isn't just the decision to go to war, it's the incredible mis-management of the period afterward. That's what a lack of planning will do for ya. It's probably the biggest stain on your party in the last 30 years - a repudiation of the typical meme that Republicans are specialists in foreign policy matters.

Cycloptichorn

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The 2008 Democrat Convention

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