53
   

The 2008 Democrat Convention

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:38 am
@Lash,
Yes, but you don't offer advice like this on national tv, you offer it behind the scenes. It isn't like Dean is watching CNN. When you are making your grievances public, you are essentially working to sabotage the works, especially in a fora where public opinion of the effectiveness of the event helps create a narrative. Carville wanted to create a narrative that things were going poorly, and that's what he worked to do.

While I do think that those two are anti-Obama, based on a lot of things they've done and said in the past, their true opponent is Howard Dean. They know that presidents come and go and both of them know that their party positions will be safe whether Obama wins or loses; they are struggling for control of the party, something that transcends this election. So they will criticize Dean and his production at every opportunity.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:41 am
Just want to remind you guys, that the convention doesn't have to convince one single independent for Obama to win - he only needs to solidify the Dem party behind him. The independent and cross-over Republicans are already there for him.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:43 am
@Cycloptichorn,
One more thing, I forgot to add - Hillary can stiffen up that support considerably with one line:

"I asked Sen. Obama not to consider me for VP."

Cycloptichorn
squinney
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:45 am
Just cathing up here....

Thanks for the warning and only time I plan to use the ignore button.

I don't think the girls were scripted due to the interrupting of Daddy. Agree with Bear they may have been told they could say hi to him, but don't see that as staged. Found myself wanting to reach for the microphone and wondering why Michelle didn't take it back or pass it to big sis sooner. Loved their confidence!

Heard and agreed with most of what Michelle said. Was a bit put off by it sounding like a sermon, but then realized that given her background it may have been that I was hearing / seeing in mannerisms more of an opening or closing argument. We were the jury.

REALLY put off by the dead spaces throughout the evening. Wanted more fanfare, big intro's, ... I dunno... Excitement! I mean, come on, we're about to finally get rid of the worst president ever and this is what I see and hear from the team that has been handed the game?

There were several times the media caught audience members looking stoic, sleepy and bored. That wasn't good.

Looking forward to Hillary tonight.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:46 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

One more thing, I forgot to add - Hillary can stiffen up that support considerably with one line:

"I asked Sen. Obama not to consider me for VP."



Shocked Do you really think she is capable of lying to the world like that?




It turns out Mrs. Bill Clinton was never on Obama's VP list.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  4  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:49 am
@okie,
Quote:
Now, based on one speech by his wife, and his children saying I love you daddy, all scripted to soften their image for a few hours in Denver, we are supposed to gush over these people and vote for him?


Nope, not based on that. That's certainly not what I'm saying.

Look, I'm just saying that if you're listening to any speech by any politician (or any politician's spouse, for that matter) with the firm idea in mind that deep down, he really, really hates America, and any moment now he'll use some kind of code word that betrays his real feelings - then you'll probably find something anywhere.

Essentially, I'm just making the case for keeping an open mind. I'm fully aware that I might not be able to persuade you, though.

That said, I'm gonna step back a bit for now, letting the other folks talk about the convention rather than sidetracking this thread endlessly....
okie
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 11:51 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

Here are the quotes I am talking about:

"Barack stood up that day, and spoke words that have stayed with me ever since. He talked about “The world as it is” and “The world as it should be.” And he said that all too often, we accept the distance between the two, and settle for the world as it is " even when it doesn’t reflect our values and aspirations. But he reminded us that we know what our world should look like. We know what fairness and justice and opportunity look like. And he urged us to believe in ourselves " to find the strength within ourselves to strive for the world as it should be. And isn’t that the great American story?"

"They’ll tell them how this time, we listened to our hopes, instead of our fears. How this time, we decided to stop doubting and to start dreaming. How this time, in this great country " where a girl from the South Side of Chicago can go to college and law school, and the son of a single mother from Hawaii can go all the way to the White House " we committed ourselves to building the world as it should be."


Again, the Obamaites will accuse me of seeing things here that are not here. But the speech was designed as a feel good speech, to talk about family, to emphasize values that all Americans can relate to, but Michelle could not resist throwing in the comments about changing the country from what it is, with the hardships, with the doubts, injustices, etc. and transform it into something it should be, even the world as it should be. Now, apparently she wrote the speech, but it was tweaked some, perhaps softening it, but some limited reference to their mindset still made it through the editors.

I think they are a terribly angry pair of people with aspirations that go beyond what a president is capable of doing or should even try to do.

Further comment on the above. It has been pointed out that the language used by Michelle, in regard to Obama saying "the world as it is, and the world as it should be," although I picked up on it as code talk for a a leftist viewpoint. I was right. It has been brought to my attention that Saul Alinsky, the Marxist, used similar language in his writings, such as Rules for Radicals.

I don't really have much doubt that the Obamas are committed leftists, possibly even Marxists, I don't really know because they would never admit it if they were. For now, they will be content if elected to push their agenda of more government mandated stuff, health care, youth corps, on and on.
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:00 pm
@old europe,
You made perfect sense to anyone with a triple digit IQ, OE. It just doesn't matter how compelling you present your argument to a house plant.

If she had somehow managed to avoid every potentially twistable phrase; today they'd be calling her a fake, a hypocrite or worse. Listening to Rush is aggravating enough, let alone his half-witted disciples.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:03 pm
@old europe,
Don't go!!! I always really like to know how you see things.

and Cyclo---I was thinking about what you were saying about WHERE they are expressing their negative opinions....I understand. This may be sour grapes by the two of them, who are miffed that the O camp (and Dean) have pushed them out of the situation room/planning. They were --or at least Carville was---very sought after advisors. I guess they've been pushed to the side, so they resort to giving ring side commentary.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:04 pm
@okie,
Okay, I have to respond to this one.

This is just silly. Absolutely ridiculous. Has some dubious "Marxist" that you've never, ever heard about used similar words? Maybe.

But look, that tells us nothing. Hey, I can give you a quote by Condoleeza Rice, using the same words:

Quote:
Almost a year ago today in his second Inaugural Address, President Bush laid out a vision that now leads America into the world. "It is the policy of the United States," the President said, "to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world." To achieve this bold mission, America needs equally bold diplomacy, a diplomacy that not only reports about the world as it is, but seeks to change the world itself. I and others have called this mission "transformational diplomacy." And today I want to explain what it is in principle and how we are advancing it in practice.


She said that in a speech at Georgetown University, by the way.


And look, she said it again, at the Southern Baptist Convention Annual Meeting:

Quote:
Let us draw inspiration from impatient patriots in other lands who struggle onward only with their love of freedom and their faith in deliverance. And finally, more than anything, let us resolve to deal with the world as it is, but never to accept that we are powerless to make it better than it is. Not perfect, but better.



And again, at a town hall meeting in Washington

Quote:
That is the basis of our foreign policy. It's a foreign policy based on values; it's a foreign policy based on the heart of who we are. Yes, we have interests, and we know that there is a world out there that looks a certain way, that we have to deal with the world as it is. But you know, the thing about the Trumans and the Achesons and the Kennans is they didn't just accept the world as it was. They believed that it was possible to change it.



She even talking about CHANGE!!!

Change, and "the world as it is, and the world as it should be"! She a Marxist! Incredible! And you haven't noticed it for almost 8 years!!!


---


okie, this is exactly what I meant. You have your preconceived notions, and then you go out of your way to find something, anything, that confirms them.

It's ridiculous.
Lash
 
  4  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:06 pm
@okie,
To me..and I caught that, too...the world as it is...etc underlines the basic difference in the GOP and Dems....Realists (the way it is) vs Idealists (the way it should be). I like that people are constantly reaching for the stars, meanwhile, somebody has to make supper.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:33 pm
@Lash,
Fine with us. Ya'll focus on making supper while we figure out the future Laughing

Division of labor is a wonderful thing

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:35 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Hey, this is what I like about Obama -- the pragmatism. The getting-things-done-ness. (Reported to be a big reason for why he chose Biden -- he likes how the guy gets stuff done.) He's making supper AND he's looking to the future. Lots to like.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:41 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
<mutters about feeding those head -in- the- clouds dreamers...>
<I think we should finally tell them we had to kill a cow for that steak>
Cool
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:55 pm
@old europe,
oe, explain it away, fine, leftists exist, and the Democratic Party is beholden to the left, and that left has embraced Barack Obama.

Marxists exist, they are plentiful in some places around the country, I believe, such as colleges and universities.

Leftists constantly look for new ways to package their product, and new personalities to push their agenda.

Obama fits the mold. For now, I think he is a certifiable greenhorn, and certifiable liberal, nothing more, but the reason I look at these people with such a jaundiced eye is because many leftists cannot be totally honest about all of their beliefs, because if they did, they wouldn't win.
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:56 pm
Anyhow, round two is coming up, and based on the following and some other pundits I have been reading, the convention organizers may be hoping they won't want to rewind to last night's fluff and puff content.

Quote:
The former president, speaking in Denver, posed a hypothetical question in which he seemed to suggest that that the Democratic Party was making a mistake in choosing Obama as its presidential nominee.

He said: "Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Then, perhaps mindful of how his off-the-cuff remarks might be taken, Clinton added after a pause: "This has nothing to do with what's going on now."

The comments are unlikely to be taken as an innocent mistake by those Democrats who continue to be angry with the former president for, they say, not supporting the Illinois senator wholeheartedly, if not implicitly undercutting him.

The controversial comments came just hours before Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), the former first lady and principal rival to Obama, was due to speak from the convention podium.

Democrats concerned about what the former president might say when he addresses the Democratic convention Wednesday night would likely have cringed at his remarks Tuesday to a group of foreign dignitaries.

The former president talked about the importance of a politician being able to deliver on his promises following an electoral victory and how voters factor in that ability to deliver when picking their candidate.

During the contentious and at times nasty nomination battle between Clinton and Obama, the Clinton campaign repeatedly pushed the question of whether Obama, a freshman senator, had the experience or the ability to deliver on his promises if elected. Clinton, they argued, was more suited to do so. . . .

. . . .Now in a convention that continues to be racked with stories and questions about how unified the Democratic Party truly is, Clinton's appearance Wednesday " and his tendency to go off the teleprompter " has some Democrats very nervous. . . .

WHOLE PIECE HERE
http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/bill-clinton-in-denver-again-undercuts-obama-2008-08-26.html


http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/sst082508dBP.jpg
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:56 pm
@okie,
Quote:

Marxists exist, they are plentiful in some places around the country, I believe, such as colleges and universities.


Not that you have any actual evidence, being not too well acquianted with modern colleges and universities, would you?

Geez

Cycloptichorn
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 01:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26406555/
More discussion of the Clinton Factor at the Convention.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 01:12 pm
@Lash,
How can you say this with a straight face, Lash. Hasn't the last 8 years taught you anything. Or do you include "phucking things up royally" as getting things done?

old europe
 
  3  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2008 01:19 pm
@okie,
Quote:
oe, explain it away, fine


I'm not explaining anything away. There's nothing there to be explained away. You were walking right off into wild-eyed crazy conspiracy theory territory, without a shred of evidence.

Gosh, give me any speech by any politician, and I can find a sequence of five words that can also be found in the bible, in the Communist Manifesto and in Mein Kampf.
 

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