Oil Vs. Alternative Energy

Advocate wrote:

Jerk, we learned much more from unmanned rockets to the moon and elsewhere, at a tiny fraction of the cost.

No, we did not.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

I started out in caps and was half way through before I noticed and wasn't about to start over.
Advocate
You need to research the return on the technology advances due to the minitureazation of the equipment used by the moon project. Cell phones, laptop computers, the huge increase in memory for computers and much technology worth many trillions of $ in cars planes and watches. Goggle it and educate your self. Investing in going to the astroids or other planets would yield the same or more return. This is something that needs to be planed for in terms of hundreds of years and by multiple governments. But with our political people it probably wont. Their planning is in terms of 4 years at a time.

0 Replies

The returns were from the entire space program, not the trip to the moon, which was just a showpiece. Also, the returns are vastly exagerated, and would have been greater from direct research (such as in connection with energy, autos, etc.). The space people will tell you they invented sliced bread.

0 Replies

If not for the space program it would have taken business 50 years to gain this technology. Government money drove the knowledge gained by this program. Business wouldn't have invested the huge sums of money it took. Business isn't interested in knowledge only in making money. Some things government is much better at than business and this is one of those things.

0 Replies

Unprovable!

0 Replies

fyi

how much does electricity cost?

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cost.html

wind electricity basics
http://www.homepower.com/basics/wind/

adding wind mill power to your home

http://ezinearticles.com/?Adding-Windmill-Power-To-Your-Home&id=914338

wind turbines

http://ezinearticles.com/?Adding-Windmill-Power-To-Your-Home&id=914338

wind and hydropower programs

http://www.eere.energy.gov/windandhydro/windpoweringamerica/

bottom line it will cost you about $15,000 to put up a small wind turbine plus tower. you will likely get 200-400kwh of energy from this from a wind speed of 12 mph, from this, with an average home of 1500-2000 square feet one uses about 1,000kwh per month.

so you'll likely cut your electricity costs by 20-40% for the 15 year lifespan of the turbine

i am investigating using the wind turbine to supply energy for a hybid car in case gasoline goes much higher than $7/gallon

it was "fishin'" i believe that decried the lack of information available so one could do all this oneself and i am in total agreement, it took me a weekend to go through the litertature to glean enough info to seriously consider buying the wind turbine.

adding solar panels

http://www.evo.com/content/2936/solar_basics_-_is_solar_power_a_good_investment

For an average family home, the stats are:

KW Hours Per Year 12,000
KW Hours per month 1,000
KW Hours per day 33.
Power station Kw Required 6 KW per hour.
Cost per KW installed $5,500
Cost of Solar Power Station $33,000
Solar Energy Grants $15,000
Net Cost 18,000.00
Let's say...

You borrow $18,000 at an average interest rate of 6.00%
Repayment per Month 107.92
Ave Cost Per KW Hour 0.11
Yearly Price Increase 6.00%
Inflation Rate 3.00%
Here is how it adds up:

In the First Year your new power station is saving you $110 a month in electricity.
1000 KW hours * 11c = $110
You are paying 107.92 in interest.
So your 1000 kw hours actually costing 2.08 less a month
By year 10 you are saving $77 a month or $935 a year
Over the 30 life years you actually save $65,000 in power bills or $34,000 in today's money from your power station on top of paying back the $18,000 plus the interest it cost you. '' In other states rebates are not as large but is possible to make savings in less than 2 to 5 years.''

This example was provided on Squidoo - Facts About Solar Energy

btw it grieves me to agree with mysteryman, but nuclear is the way to go for the foreseeable future

0 Replies

Here's a nice article about a real-world, large scale home solar instillation, with pictures, costs, extensive documentation, everything. With a follow up.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2308674,00.asp

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

kuvasz wrote:

...nuclear is the way to go for the foreseeable future

i like the idea of nuclear energy. the technology has gotten a lot more stable.

the big problem i have with it is that we haven't found a way to get rid of the waste. right now, the best they can come up with is pouring it down a big hole ?

not only will that dog not hunt, he won't even get off the porch.

0 Replies

kuvasz wrote:

i am investigating using the wind turbine to supply energy for a hybid car in case gasoline goes much higher than $7/gallon

If you do choose to do it PLEASE put together some sort of blog on the project! (With as much detail as you are comfortable listing!)

We need to quit reinventing the wheel with this stuff. The small wind turbines should be an "off the shelf" kit at this point. They aren't that complicated but the places that do sell them either expect each buyer to assemble their own kit or pay them out the whazoo to do it for you. That's fine for the techno-geeks but not practical for the general population.

I'm toying with my own combined wind/solar project and keeping LOTS of notes as I research stuff.

0 Replies

Advocate wrote:

The returns were from the entire space program, not the trip to the moon, which was just a showpiece. Also, the returns are vastly exagerated, and would have been greater from direct research (such as in connection with energy, autos, etc.). The space people will tell you they invented sliced bread.

But the trip to the moon was the goal of the space program.
Thats why Kennedy ordered the space program to begin.

So any benefits or returns from the space program came directly because we were trying to get to the moon.

0 Replies

fishin wrote:

kuvasz wrote:

i am investigating using the wind turbine to supply energy for a hybid car in case gasoline goes much higher than $7/gallon

If you do choose to do it PLEASE put together some sort of blog on the project! (With as much detail as you are comfortable listing!)

We need to quit reinventing the wheel with this stuff. The small wind turbines should be an "off the shelf" kit at this point. They aren't that complicated but the places that do sell them either expect each buyer to assemble their own kit or pay them out the whazoo to do it for you. That's fine for the techno-geeks but not practical for the general population.

I'm toying with my own combined wind/solar project and keeping LOTS of notes as I research stuff.

we ought to share the knowledge because while it is out there one has to search through the Antipodes to glean it.

my wife and i are moving to a wooded 4 acre farm with a house with 3200 square feet of roof, she works 30 miles away and i work out of my home office, so i think that once we convert to a hybrid vehicle that runs on gas and electricity she can drive almost for free on the two days she has to teach her classes at law school. with the forest producing wood for the wood burning stove, that heats most of the house and the hot water, along with the wind and solar we hope to be off the grid in a few years.

i will keep you up to date about how we accomplish the task of using non-oil based fuel for power.

if al gore wants us to reduce fuel consumption he ought to gather the best brains available and set them to producing modular units for wind and solar energy capture for easy assembly so regular folk can do this without having to be a journeyman electrician or carpenter., because the highest cost right now is paying for someone else to do the work. while a number of states have tax rebates we ought to have more if this is the best way to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:
Advocate wrote:

BTW, what is Boone Pickens going to recommend?

It will be something that will make him some money. Don't get me started on T. Boone Pickens.

And here I thought you supported 'making money,' Okie.

Cycloptichorn

Pickens is a "promoter" first and an oilman second, just my opinion. I have been aware of him a long time ago. He has his name on the school of geology, where I graduated, and I am not all that excited about it.

His program now is to apparently get the government to promote the saps in Washington to help him make a gob of money. I say apparently because I just read the news like anyone else and don't know the details. My advice to Pickens, go build your windmills, like everyone else does, and pay for them yourself, or get the electrical utilitities to do it, not Washington.

0 Replies

kuvasz wrote:

my wife and i are moving to a wooded 4 acre farm with a house with 3200 square feet of roof, she works 30 miles away and i work out of my home office, so i think that once we convert to a hybrid vehicle that runs on gas and electricity she can drive almost for free on the two days she has to teach her classes at law school. with the forest producing wood for the wood burning stove, that heats most of the house and the hot water, along with the wind and solar we hope to be off the grid in a few years.

Good for you, but Al Gore would not be very proud. Burning wood is not all that carbon neutral, and living 30 miles from work is pretty wasteful. And isn't your wife at least going to take a bus instead of drive a car? And don't you know that living in a flat downtown is the ultimate thing to do, energy wise. Living on a farm, before long, you will be nothing but another hayseed.

0 Replies

okie wrote:

kuvasz wrote:

my wife and i are moving to a wooded 4 acre farm with a house with 3200 square feet of roof, she works 30 miles away and i work out of my home office, so i think that once we convert to a hybrid vehicle that runs on gas and electricity she can drive almost for free on the two days she has to teach her classes at law school. with the forest producing wood for the wood burning stove, that heats most of the house and the hot water, along with the wind and solar we hope to be off the grid in a few years.

Good for you, but Al Gore would not be very proud. Burning wood is not all that carbon neutral, and living 30 miles from work is pretty wasteful. And isn't your wife at least going to take a bus instead of drive a car? And don't you know that living in a flat downtown is the ultimate thing to do, energy wise. Living on a farm, before long, you will be nothing but another hayseed.

gee, i'll let pass the fact that i have been living on a farm for the past nine years, but it takes one to know one now please go back to f%&*king your little sister. you know what creeps me out about you, other than your 7th grade education? that in a thread where i agree with many of your fellow travelers and engage in quite useful dialogue that makes able to know an important conduit for information? that you are so stupid that you fail to grasp it as a clear point for a basis of negotiation elsewhere.

i left you alone last week when it was clear that debating you about ethics was useless and further discussion would humiliate you, and here you are back again but you are too dullwitted to recognize the fact that i could have showed you further to be a mouthbreathing moron, but you persist in thinking that you have even average intelligence.

btw dummy my wife and i are investing in carbon offsets, dick-wad.

0 Replies

kuvasz wrote:

okie wrote:
kuvasz wrote:

my wife and i are moving to a wooded 4 acre farm with a house with 3200 square feet of roof, she works 30 miles away and i work out of my home office, so i think that once we convert to a hybrid vehicle that runs on gas and electricity she can drive almost for free on the two days she has to teach her classes at law school. with the forest producing wood for the wood burning stove, that heats most of the house and the hot water, along with the wind and solar we hope to be off the grid in a few years.

Good for you, but Al Gore would not be very proud. Burning wood is not all that carbon neutral, and living 30 miles from work is pretty wasteful. And isn't your wife at least going to take a bus instead of drive a car? And don't you know that living in a flat downtown is the ultimate thing to do, energy wise. Living on a farm, before long, you will be nothing but another hayseed.

gee, i'll let pass the fact that i have been living on a farm for the past nine years, but it takes one to know one now please go back to f%&*king your little sister. you know what creeps me out about you, other than your 7th grade education? that in a thread where i agree with many of your fellow travelers and engage in quite useful dialogue that makes able to know an important conduit for information? that you are so stupid that you fail to grasp it as a clear point for a basis of negotiation elsewhere.

i left you alone last week when it was clear that debating you about ethics was useless and further discussion would humiliate you, and here you are back again but you are too dullwitted to recognize the fact that i could have showed you further to be a mouthbreathing moron, but you persist in thinking that you have even average intelligence.

btw dummy my wife and i are investing in carbon offsets, dick-wad.

I wonder if a combination of wind and solar would work well for you? Other options such as solar water heating could help get off the grid as well.

Here's a source on micro-wind turbines, cheap and easy to install.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:MotorWind:Pastic_Micro_Wind_Turbines

What sort of budget are you looking at? Dozens of thousands of dollars WILL get you off of the power grid, but for as little as 5 or 10 you could reduce your grid usage by 75% or more.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

What are "carbon offsets" and how do they really help?

I keep seeing that term, but all I can find is that basicly you pay someone to plant trees to make up for the CO2 you create.

I fail to see how tht really does anything excpet make someone rich.

But, if you can get yourself off the grid, then I say good for you.

0 Replies

mysteryman wrote:

What are "carbon offsets" and how do they really help?

I keep seeing that term, but all I can find is that basicly you pay someone to plant trees to make up for the CO2 you create.

I fail to see how tht really does anything excpet make someone rich.

But, if you can get yourself off the grid, then I say good for you.

Uh, it plants more trees, which is a good thing for our environment. So it does do something.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
What are "carbon offsets" and how do they really help?

I keep seeing that term, but all I can find is that basicly you pay someone to plant trees to make up for the CO2 you create.

I fail to see how tht really does anything excpet make someone rich.

But, if you can get yourself off the grid, then I say good for you.

Uh, it plants more trees, which is a good thing for our environment. So it does do something.

Cycloptichorn

I dont deny that.
I just wonder why you or anyone else should pay someone else to plant trees for you?
Do you SEE them plant the trees?
Do you have any input as to what kind of trees are planted?
Do you know where those trees are?

How do you know that it isnt just a scam, where I take your money and do nothing afterwards?

0 Replies

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
What are "carbon offsets" and how do they really help?

I keep seeing that term, but all I can find is that basicly you pay someone to plant trees to make up for the CO2 you create.

I fail to see how tht really does anything excpet make someone rich.

But, if you can get yourself off the grid, then I say good for you.

Uh, it plants more trees, which is a good thing for our environment. So it does do something.

Cycloptichorn

I dont deny that.
I just wonder why you or anyone else should pay someone else to plant trees for you?
Do you SEE them plant the trees?
Do you have any input as to what kind of trees are planted?
Do you know where those trees are?

How do you know that it isnt just a scam, where I take your money and do nothing afterwards?

How do you know that money you give to a charity isn't a scam? Same thing.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
What are "carbon offsets" and how do they really help?

I keep seeing that term, but all I can find is that basicly you pay someone to plant trees to make up for the CO2 you create.

I fail to see how tht really does anything excpet make someone rich.

But, if you can get yourself off the grid, then I say good for you.

Uh, it plants more trees, which is a good thing for our environment. So it does do something.

Cycloptichorn

Uh, uh, uh, uh, cyclops, there are too many trees now in many places. There are more trees now, many many more than there were 100 years ago, in most places I have ever lived. I know places where trees are coming up volunteer, by the tens of thousands, that were not there, that was prairie with no trees a hundred years ago. So I don't plan on planting any more for the stupid carbon offset idea, which is totally bogus.

0 Replies

Oil Vs. Alternative Energy

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know