4
   

Oil Vs. Alternative Energy

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:00 pm
Advocate wrote:

BTW, what is Boone Pickens going to recommend?

It will be something that will make him some money. Don't get me started on T. Boone Pickens.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:00 pm
okie wrote:
Advocate wrote:

BTW, what is Boone Pickens going to recommend?

It will be something that will make him some money. Don't get me started on T. Boone Pickens.


And here I thought you supported 'making money,' Okie.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:26 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
None of the other planets in our little solar system is even remotely habitable. At today's speeds, we could reach the nearest solar system to ours in only 30,000 years. Gee, maybe we could increase our speed so that we could reach that system, and whatever is there, in only, say, 1,000 years. I call that encouraging.


But we do have the capability to build colonies on other planets.


If you buy into this, I have some wonderful real estate to sell to you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:28 pm
Advocate wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
Advocate wrote:
None of the other planets in our little solar system is even remotely habitable. At today's speeds, we could reach the nearest solar system to ours in only 30,000 years. Gee, maybe we could increase our speed so that we could reach that system, and whatever is there, in only, say, 1,000 years. I call that encouraging.


But we do have the capability to build colonies on other planets.


If you buy into this, I have some wonderful real estate to sell to you.


It's just a matter of science, Adv. As you obviously have not done the research on this issue to be able to make authoritative statements, what makes you think that your negative opinions carry any real weight?

Can you tell me: what about starting a moon or Mars colony are we not currently capable of doing? Specifically.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:32 pm
1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.
2. Complete independence of air and food and water.
3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.
4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Just a couple that popped into mind.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 12:51 pm
McGentrix wrote:
1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.
2. Complete independence of air and food and water.
3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.
4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Just a couple that popped into mind.


These are good questions as they relate to a space colony.

1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.

Lots of working out; and more importantly, we'll spin the station for gravity. Probably the easiest to solve of all the issues.

2. Complete independence of air and food and water.

This is going to be a toughie at first, but relatively easy later on. There are thousands of asteroids in the belt composed of ice and dry ice; once we have a few of those, it won't be too difficult to crack O2 and have a steady supply of water.

Obviously, we are going to have to do a lot of work in hydroponics and low grav growing techniques; but, we're going to have to start somewhere, and until we try we'll never know if it will work or not. Early experiments and tests have shown that plants grow just fine in space.

3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.

The ISS is doing a good job of this; there's nothing about this that we don't know how to solve at this time, no real engineering difficulties that we don't have solutions for. New research can help, such as this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-healing_plastic

4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Well; I think we can manage Laughing a space station at L-2 or L-3 wouldn't be a 'space flight' per se.

Let us keep in mind also that our first few stations and colonies will not be self-sufficient until we get the industry up and running; the challenges do not all have to be solved, in order to get started, and many of them cannot be solved until the base work is started.

As a species, we have a fantastic track record of overcoming engineering challenges, and a relatively slow pace of overcoming theoretical challenges. The problems you list, or that may come up, are nearly universally Engineering challenges; we can solve them. There's no real gap in our theory (like there would be for, say, interstellar flight) that poses a real roadblock to our exploration and exploitation of space.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 01:46 pm
Cyclo, I have some nice Enron stock to sell to you.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 01:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.
2. Complete independence of air and food and water.
3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.
4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Just a couple that popped into mind.


These are good questions as they relate to a space colony.

1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.

Lots of working out; and more importantly, we'll spin the station for gravity. Probably the easiest to solve of all the issues.

2. Complete independence of air and food and water.

This is going to be a toughie at first, but relatively easy later on. There are thousands of asteroids in the belt composed of ice and dry ice; once we have a few of those, it won't be too difficult to crack O2 and have a steady supply of water.

Obviously, we are going to have to do a lot of work in hydroponics and low grav growing techniques; but, we're going to have to start somewhere, and until we try we'll never know if it will work or not. Early experiments and tests have shown that plants grow just fine in space.

3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.

The ISS is doing a good job of this; there's nothing about this that we don't know how to solve at this time, no real engineering difficulties that we don't have solutions for. New research can help, such as this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-healing_plastic

4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Well; I think we can manage Laughing a space station at L-2 or L-3 wouldn't be a 'space flight' per se.

Let us keep in mind also that our first few stations and colonies will not be self-sufficient until we get the industry up and running; the challenges do not all have to be solved, in order to get started, and many of them cannot be solved until the base work is started.

As a species, we have a fantastic track record of overcoming engineering challenges, and a relatively slow pace of overcoming theoretical challenges. The problems you list, or that may come up, are nearly universally Engineering challenges; we can solve them. There's no real gap in our theory (like there would be for, say, interstellar flight) that poses a real roadblock to our exploration and exploitation of space.

Cycloptichorn


Bear in mind, you stated:

Quote:
Can you tell me: what about starting a moon or Mars colony are we not currently capable of doing? Specifically.


Well, I answered.

The reason I did so was that I watched a show on history channel (thank god for tv, eh?) and these were all brought up regarding challenges being faced now. They are working on solutions, but do not have any at this time.
0 Replies
 
Avatar ADV
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 01:54 pm
Spinning a colony -on the Moon or Mars- is significantly harder than spinning a space colony; since you'd specified the former, you can hardly blame people for listing long-term exposure to low gravity as a problem to be overcome. The practical engineering hurdles in building the colony at all will be large; building it such that it -spins for gravity- would increase the difficulty by leaps and bounds.

We don't actually know how to process an ice asteroid efficiently (or at all, for that matter). I mean, the basic theory of it, sure, but we're as far from being able to DO it as scientists were from producing an actual atomic explosion in the mid-30s. It's a significant engineering challenge.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 01:57 pm
Mars would be a fun place to live. Can't wait!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 02:32 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.
2. Complete independence of air and food and water.
3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.
4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Just a couple that popped into mind.


These are good questions as they relate to a space colony.

1. Countering the effects of micro-gravity on bone and tissue loss.

Lots of working out; and more importantly, we'll spin the station for gravity. Probably the easiest to solve of all the issues.

2. Complete independence of air and food and water.

This is going to be a toughie at first, but relatively easy later on. There are thousands of asteroids in the belt composed of ice and dry ice; once we have a few of those, it won't be too difficult to crack O2 and have a steady supply of water.

Obviously, we are going to have to do a lot of work in hydroponics and low grav growing techniques; but, we're going to have to start somewhere, and until we try we'll never know if it will work or not. Early experiments and tests have shown that plants grow just fine in space.

3. Overcoming micro fractures in hull stability and tracking minute damages to shelter.

The ISS is doing a good job of this; there's nothing about this that we don't know how to solve at this time, no real engineering difficulties that we don't have solutions for. New research can help, such as this -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-healing_plastic

4. Adapting the social structure of long term space flights.

Well; I think we can manage Laughing a space station at L-2 or L-3 wouldn't be a 'space flight' per se.

Let us keep in mind also that our first few stations and colonies will not be self-sufficient until we get the industry up and running; the challenges do not all have to be solved, in order to get started, and many of them cannot be solved until the base work is started.

As a species, we have a fantastic track record of overcoming engineering challenges, and a relatively slow pace of overcoming theoretical challenges. The problems you list, or that may come up, are nearly universally Engineering challenges; we can solve them. There's no real gap in our theory (like there would be for, say, interstellar flight) that poses a real roadblock to our exploration and exploitation of space.

Cycloptichorn


Bear in mind, you stated:

Quote:
Can you tell me: what about starting a moon or Mars colony are we not currently capable of doing? Specifically.


Well, I answered.

The reason I did so was that I watched a show on history channel (thank god for tv, eh?) and these were all brought up regarding challenges being faced now. They are working on solutions, but do not have any at this time.


Well, I did say -

"These are good questions as they relate to a space colony." And they are, as we don't have all the answers to them yet. But as I said above, these are all engineering challenges, not theoretical ones; there's no reason to think we can't solve them as they come up, and as I've shown, there is already some progress in these areas.

Av,
Quote:


We don't actually know how to process an ice asteroid efficiently (or at all, for that matter). I mean, the basic theory of it, sure, but we're as far from being able to DO it as scientists were from producing an actual atomic explosion in the mid-30s. It's a significant engineering challenge.


In the words of our sainted leader, Bring it On! I love engineering challenges, for as I said earlier, our track record is great on them.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:40 pm
I REMEMBER THESE SAME QUESTION BEING ASKED WHEN KENNEDY PROPOSED GOING TO THE MOON. WE KNOW THAT WE NEVER GOT THERE AND ALL THE MOON AND SPACE PICTURES THAT WERE PRINTED IN THE PAPER WERE MADE UP JUST KIDDING. IF WE SPENT 400 BILLION $ A YEAR ON GOING TO THE ASTROID BELT OR THE MOON AND MARS IN 20 OR 30 YEARS WE WOULD BE THERE. WATER ISN'T A PROBLEM ITS ALL OVER OUR SOLAR SYSTEM AND THERE ARE ASTROIDS BIG ENOUGH TO BE HABITABLE.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:48 pm
Going to the moon was a walk in the park compared to the BS here about settling other planets, etc. For one thing, it is only a couple of hundred thousand miles away. Further, it was a major waste of time and money, which would have been much, much, better spent in solving energy issues.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:48 pm
rabel22 wrote:
I REMEMBER THESE SAME QUESTION BEING ASKED WHEN KENNEDY PROPOSED GOING TO THE MOON. WE KNOW THAT WE NEVER GOT THERE AND ALL THE MOON AND SPACE PICTURES THAT WERE PRINTED IN THE PAPER WERE MADE UP JUST KIDDING. IF WE SPENT 400 BILLION $ A YEAR ON GOING TO THE ASTROID BELT OR THE MOON AND MARS IN 20 OR 30 YEARS WE WOULD BE THERE. WATER ISN'T A PROBLEM ITS ALL OVER OUR SOLAR SYSTEM AND THERE ARE ASTROIDS BIG ENOUGH TO BE HABITABLE.


All caps, but damn right. It wouldn't even take 20 years.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:50 pm
That is patent nonsense. We can't even get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, or find bin-Laden, and we are supposed to settle other planets, etc.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:52 pm
There you go! Can't cure the common, and already to jump into space.

Might as well give up, right?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:53 pm
Advocate wrote:
That is patent nonsense. We can't even get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, or find bin-Laden, and we are supposed to settle other planets, etc.


Couldn't get out of vietnam, made it to the moon.

Next half-assed denial of the potential of space?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 03:56 pm
We spent a fortune getting to the moon, and got nothing from it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 04:02 pm
Advocate wrote:
We spent a fortune getting to the moon, and got nothing from it.


Spoken like an idiot. I don't think you are an idiot, Adv, but this is a ridiculous thing to say. We learned a ton about the moon, about it's composition, about what it would take to get to and land on another planet, communications in space, whew. I mean, we learned a LOT from our moon missions; and the rocks are still being analyzed to this day and sell quite well.

C'mon. Look at the bigger picture here, please!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jul, 2008 04:09 pm
Jerk, we learned much more from unmanned rockets to the moon and elsewhere, at a tiny fraction of the cost.
0 Replies
 
 

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