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Rape: What is it?

 
 
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 06:23 pm
shewolfnm wrote:
Hawkeye 10 said:
Quote:
I have also said that most of what we call marital rape should be given a new label, that the term rape includes such a broad range of boundary violations and relationship misunderstandings that the term rape is currently very vague.


No it isnt.

Rape - forced sexual acts with out consent.


You act like consent and force are cut and dried. They are not, these are very squishy concepts. Actually, rape has been redefined to include coercive sex which is more nebulous still, coercion can been just about anything we want it to mean. We have not gotten there yet but if i take you out to dinner with the expectation that their will be sex after, and after you put the brakes on and I explain that I expected sex after, this will before long be defined as coercion. If you then change your mind and we have sex you could latter make the case that you have been raped. This is about the level that we have gotten to, which basically is that men have no rights to negotiate to have there sexual needs met if their needs exceed that of their female partner. Rape law is being used to shut men up, to not allow men to speak that which women do not what to hear. Rape law is being used to coerce men in to allowing women complete control of sexual encounters. No, I am not agreeing to this scheme, and other men should not either. You don't get to equality based relationship by giving in to every demand that females make, you don't get anywhere in fact.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 21,899 • Replies: 190

 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 06:36 pm
Pathetic.

If you take someone to dinner with the "expectation that their (sic) will be sex after", then you aren't dating someone. You have mistakenly confused an evening's meal with the price of a hooker.

Is there a sliding scale of "dinner expectations" for you?
A quick burger at Wendy's is only good for a hum job?
A Chicken-fried steak and dessert only gets a cowgirl on top with her blouse still buttoned?
A full five course meal at Beppo's with wine results in a mind-shattering, multi-position, orgasmic explosion that will have the dogs two yards over howling in vibrating harmony?

Joe( Christalmighty! Stop watching internet porn, will yah?)Nation
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 06:37 pm
Sexual needs is a misleading phrase. They're sexual wants.

Anyone who expects sex for doing anything for another person, and is angry when it's not forthcoming has issues.

I think you copped a bit of flak months ago for sounding like an apologist for rape, I've been away for a while - did you ever say why this issue bugs you?
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hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:10 pm
The motive of the individual voicing an argument has no bearing on the validity of the argument. However, what I want is for boundary violations to stop, for what I consider to be abuse to not happen, and i think that we can do much better at this if we change how we approach the erotic. I am in favor of mostly soul based solutions, as thus I have little interest in the ego based solutions such as legalism and morality, which have been overly used in western society and no longer work, if they ever did.

My interest in this subject is that it is one of the great problems of our times, and we can not recognize that there is a problem, much less search for coherent approaches to solving the problem.
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Intrepid
 
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Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:28 pm
No means NO. Period.
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hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:31 pm
Intrepid wrote:
No means NO. Period.


Humans do not work that way, negotiations are continuous.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:32 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
No means NO. Period.


Humans do not work that way, negotiations are continuous.


Bullshit
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hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:43 pm
Intrepid wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
No means NO. Period.


Humans do not work that way, negotiations are continuous.


Bullshit


Have you ever been in love or in lust? Always quit at the first "no"? Do those who do quit ever get the girl? Women do not always know what they want, admit to what they want, do not always give straight answers, and do not respect men who give -up on pursuing them.
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dagmaraka
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:46 pm
if the man doesn't quit after the first no, he's going down and not coming back. then i sue his ass till his blue.
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hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:50 pm
dagmaraka wrote:
if the man doesn't quit after the first no, he's going down and not coming back. then i sue his ass till his blue.


So if a guy asks you out and you tell him that you don't want to go out with him and have no plans to accept an offer from him you don't want him to ever ask you out again, right?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:51 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
hawkeye10 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
No means NO. Period.


Humans do not work that way, negotiations are continuous.


Bullshit


Quote:
Have you ever been in love or in lust?

Yes

Quote:
Always quit at the first "no"?

Yes

Quote:
Do those who do quit ever get the girl?

Depends on what you mean by "get". If you mean the possibility of love. Quite possibly. If you mean sex. Eventually, but only consentually.

Quote:
Women do not always know what they want, admit to what they want, do not always give straight answers, and do not respect men who give -up on pursuing them.

You are pathetic and an obvious woman hater. Frankly, you sicken me.
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dagmaraka
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:54 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
dagmaraka wrote:
if the man doesn't quit after the first no, he's going down and not coming back. then i sue his ass till his blue.


So if a guy asks you out and you tell him that you don't want to go out with him and have no plans to accept an offer from him you don't want him to ever ask you out again, right?


if i want to go out with him, i go out with him, i don't play stupid games. if he tries to push himself on me physically when i say no to that, he is done forever, and i don't care if he comes crawling back. he's scum of the earth.
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Chai
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:57 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
Women do not always know what they want, admit to what they want, do not always give straight answers, and do not respect men who give -up on pursuing them.



Pursuing?

As in trying to make the woman admit what she wants?

hawkeye, if you have ever had sex with a woman who has told you "No" you are a rapist.


Some men, like yourself, like to delude themselves that women do not know what they want, as far as wanting to have sex with you at a particular time.

I may not know what I want when choosing between essentially unimportant things, like a burger or chicken sandwich, but I have never, nor have I ever met a woman who doesn't know whether she wants to have sex with someone at a particular time.

ah yes, many are the times I have said to someone "you know, I really can't respect that guy. when he wanted to screw me, and I said no, he just 'gave up'. Jeez, what kind of 'man' is he? I'll tell ya, it's getting harder and harder to find a man that will earn my respect by forcing me to admit I don't know what I want, and giving it to me."
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ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 08:59 pm
hawkeye10 wrote:
So if a guy asks you out and you tell him that you don't want to go out with him and have no plans to accept an offer from him you don't want him to ever ask you out again, right?


No means no.

Why would a woman waste her time with that ^^^ lengthy crap? No.
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hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:07 pm
Chai wrote:
I may not know what I want when choosing between essentially unimportant things, like a burger or chicken sandwich, but I have never, nor have I ever met a woman who doesn't know whether she wants to have sex with someone at a particular time.



In sales there are continual attempts to close the deal, often many "no's" and "maybe's" are encountered before the "yes" comes. I relationships we market ourselves and try to sell ourselves to the ones that we want, not unlike a business deal. Guys and girls who give up on no and mark the person who said no as forever more not an option don't get very far.
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martybarker
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:07 pm
Interesting,yet, disturbing. Joe Nation, I like what you said.

Hawkeye, I'd be a little leary if you invited me out for coffee. And this brings me to another topic. Can't a girl accept an invitation from a man without feeling like she owes him something sexual in return?
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:17 pm
people are not commodities.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:18 pm
martybarker wrote:
Interesting,yet, disturbing. Joe Nation, I like what you said.

Hawkeye, I'd be a little leary if you invited me out for coffee. And this brings me to another topic. Can't a girl accept an invitation from a man without feeling like she owes him something sexual in return?
sure, but as I recall from one of your threads sometimes the guy has different expectations, which you will need to deal with.
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vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:31 pm
Quote:
No means NO. Period.


Depending on the context you use this in - for all contexts this is blatantly not true. Many women enjoy the pursuit and enjoy playing hard to get, where no is negotiable (regarding any aspect of 'courting' not including sex). Most women also want a seduction to happen in a certain way. Most women also enjoy confident and respectful persistence.

That said, the final decision on whether or not to sleep with a man is always the womans.
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martybarker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2008 09:39 pm
Quote:
That said, the final decision on whether or not to sleep with a man is always the womans.


Except in the case of rape when it is not about making a decision
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