All super-duper-perfect

Look, Neo, I give up. You continually avoid my points. I can see that no matter how much evidence I provide, you're not going to budge. I can lead you to water but I can't make you drink. Oh well, I tried. Maybe one day you'll see the light, but for now, there's no way.

aperson

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm pretty safe, because I see my siblings about 3-4 times/year, but my wife is a buddhist, and she doesn't try to convert me!

I respect Buddhism more than any other faith. It's the closest religion to atheism, and technically it is atheism.

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Neo, just look back across the page I can see some glaring targets, but I know there is no point in shooting them down.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

In other words all those folks in heaven will be programmed robots; no negative thoughts or actions.

Actually, they are to be without negative thoughts to get there.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

In other words all those folks in heaven will be programmed robots; no negative thoughts or actions.

How did you arrive at that non sequitur from what I just said?

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aperson wrote:

Look, Neo, I give up. You continually avoid my points. I can see that no matter how much evidence I provide, you're not going to budge. I can lead you to water but I can't make you drink. Oh well, I tried. Maybe one day you'll see the light, but for now, there's no way.

aperson

You have provided only speculation and conjecture. I have answered from the scriptures. You don't have to believe the scriptures, of course; but if you wish to debate me on what they say, try quoting a few.

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aperson wrote:

Neo, just look back across the page I can see some glaring targets, but I know there is no point in shooting them down.

It seems we are not only not on the same page, but not even in the same library.

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neo, Not the same library; you're talking about one book, the bible. It took thousands of theologians to interpret it, and they still came up with different ideas about the same passage.

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cicerone imposter wrote:
But that's the crux of the problem; once they go to heaven, what ever happens to free will?

neo responded:
First of all, most folks will live on earth. We can know that because the job of the few who do go to heaven is to "be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth. . ." (Revelation 5:10)

In case you were wondering what they would do in heaven.

Do heavenly creatures have free will?

The one called Satan does.

******

My non sequitur beats your bible through logic, consistency, and evidence.

What in the world is a "kingdom" to god? From my knowledge of priests, they're one of the worst sinners on this planet; are they ready to ruin more children's lives in heaven?

What kind of religious rights will the "priest" in heaven perform? All in heaven should already be "saved."

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cicerone imposter wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
But that's the crux of the problem; once they go to heaven, what ever happens to free will?

neo responded:
First of all, most folks will live on earth. We can know that because the job of the few who do go to heaven is to "be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth. . ." (Revelation 5:10)

In case you were wondering what they would do in heaven.

Do heavenly creatures have free will?

The one called Satan does.

******

My non sequitur beats your bible through logic, consistency, and evidence.

What in the world is a "kingdom" to god? From my knowledge of priests, they're one of the worst sinners on this planet; are they ready to ruin more children's lives in heaven?

What kind of religious rights will the "priest" in heaven perform? All in heaven should already be "saved."

UHH . . .

These guys will be different from the kings and priests you are familiar with.

Your're just funnin' me, right?

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neologist wrote:

Would you wish your children to have minds of their own - or would you prefer some well behaved puppets?

Ok sure, children should have minds of their own. But why does god need or want children?

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neologist wrote:

aperson wrote:
Look, Neo, I give up. You continually avoid my points. I can see that no matter how much evidence I provide, you're not going to budge. I can lead you to water but I can't make you drink. Oh well, I tried. Maybe one day you'll see the light, but for now, there's no way.

aperson
You have provided only speculation and conjecture. I have answered from the scriptures. You don't have to believe the scriptures, of course; but if you wish to debate me on what they say, try quoting a few.

!!! Do you read any of my posts??? I provided four quotes on homosexuality and three links to pages full of scripture quotes! What more do you want??

Seriously, what the hell?

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We are perfect. Maybe we should stop thinking of god as some cool guy up in the sky who knows all and can do MAGIC Twisted Evil

, it just doesn't work. We argue about why god made us this way and why we are imperfect, but what is imperfect anyway? The fact that we kill animals and eat meat does not mean we are imperfect. From a biological point of view we are perfect, we are at the top of the food chain. Eating meat is not a sin, it is what we are supposed to do. We do everything we can to survive and in a perfect world there would be no vegetarians, in order to survive we must kill and eat animals, it is a fact of life. We are not sinners. We do "bad" things in the christian sense to protect ourselves and continue to live, e.g we eat meat to survive, we lie to protect. Is it a sin to live? When judging between right and wrong I think we have to dump some of the Christian views and take up some human views. Don't feel guilty when you eat meat only feel guilty when you break the law Evil or Very Mad

It is pointless to argue about why God made us this way when we haven't decided if god exists or not and I am quite sure he/she does not. If God created the universe then God is the singularity at the start of the big bang and life as we know it came after that. There are many mysteries about evolution and how it started, what caused the big bang? what came before it? Those questions may be answered in the future but it is unwise to answer them by proposing a God. A God who knows all, sees all and can do anything (even magic Twisted Evil

). Humans are just a small speck in the life of our earth and our universe, one day we will be no more, and there will be no god to save us. Long after we die out even time itself will end.

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aperson wrote:

God that's a good post.

Moving on.

ZoSo wrote:
Ok who says god hates homosexuals?

My friend, I present to you a new weapon, and a truck full of ammunition.

Quote:
You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
- Lev. 18:22

Quote:
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them
- Lev. 20:13

Quote:
Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
- 1 Cor. 6:9-10

Quote:
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.
- Rom. 1:26-28

Many Christians somehow ignore the fact that the Bible condemns homosexuality, but neologist, my dear little neologist, he believes in a literal translation of the Bible, so I don't see how he can say that God does not hate homosexuals.

Sorry to have glossed over this. But there really is no difference between sins. Stealing, adultery, homosexual behavior: all are sins and all are forgivable.

You apparently wish to drag me into the argument that homosexual behavior is not a choice. I submit that all human sexual behavior is by choice. You may caterwaul all you please about how difficult it is for those who were 'born different', or who have impulses they are unable to deny. Well, I struggled with all that myself and have bared my soul on this board many times.

The bible does not say it will be easy to avoid sin. In fact, one may have to exert considerable effort. I take comfort in the fact that our failures may be forgiven so long as we do not give ourselves over to them. We don't get credit for giving up.

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Look, I just don't have the energy to try to explain to you. You obviously either don't read or don't understand my posts. Clap, clap, you found those quotes, but what about the three links I so lovingly provided? I don't want to debate with you anymore, or at least until you stop deluding yourself and start listening.

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I think, neologist, that the problem is that what we are calling into doubt, is what you are taking as true, namely the bible. When you said that you and someone else are not on the same page, you were right, but that goes for me and anyone else who doubts what you assume. You cannot argue from the bible, if you do you cannot argue with us.

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existential potential wrote:

I think, neologist, that the problem is that what we are calling into doubt, is what you are taking as true, namely the bible. When you said that you and someone else are not on the same page, you were right, but that goes for me and anyone else who doubts what you assume. You cannot argue from the bible, if you do you cannot argue with us.

Chumly's original post was bible related. I answer from the bible. You don't have to believe the bible. But if you are not arguing from the bible, you are off topic, IMHO.

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aperson wrote:

Look, I just don't have the energy to try to explain to you. You obviously either don't read or don't understand my posts. Clap, clap, you found those quotes, but what about the three links I so lovingly provided? I don't want to debate with you anymore, or at least until you stop deluding yourself and start listening.

Against my better judgment, I visited the first two of your links. They represent the beliefs of many who call themselves christian. Are you saying you share those beliefs? Or are you saying I should believe?

If you believe in the fiery punishment of hell, say so. If not, is it because you can't reconcile the concept of a loving God with eternal torture? I can't. And it is not taught in the bible.

To the Jews, hell, or sheol, was simply the grave, a place of unconsciousness. The similarity between the words ?'hell' and ?'hole' is no accident. If, at the time the KJV was translated, you were to tell someone to go to hell, they would assume you were talking about the root cellar.

As for why the clergy would, for thousands of years, deliberately obfuscate the message of the bible, you would have to consider the advantages they enjoyed as they bedded themselves with kings.

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neo, The concept of a "loving" god and what has transpired both by nature and god to human-kind is a contradiction. Where in the bible does god show his love? He has penalized man more than "loving" him/her; the numbers even in the bible are self-evident. Let's start with the great world flood.

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Turning on updates here to get back to you, CI. I have a long day ahead. Hope yours is a good one.

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