All super-duper-perfect

Do you take it that all those misaligned-churchies are sinners as per: "Thou shaft have no graven images" (Exodus 20:4)?

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That, and the blood shed in the name of their god.

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I must've been to hundreds of christian churches around the world, and most of them have a "graven image" of the virgin, Jesus, and/or his disciples.

What gives?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

I must've been to hundreds of christian churches around the world, and most of them have a "graven image" of the virgin, Jesus, and/or his disciples.

What gives?

I rest my case.

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Well & good; you're not enamored with the consummate hypocrisy of organized religion.

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Mmmmm the joys of quoting the bible to prove any point.

Here are some charming bits of wisdom the bible has also given us.

Jeramiah 8:17 wrote:

Yes, I will send against you poisonous snakes, Against which no charm will work when they bite you, says the LORD.

Hmmm

Deuteronomy 23:1 wrote:

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

Enough?
There are plenty more direct quotes from the bible that have some very suspect morals present. How can anyone quote from this text and pretent it holds universal value?

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Universal value? I question its value to individuals.

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I value my testicles, however in the new testament, Jesus is quoted as saying that his followers should "make themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."

Deuteronomy 23:1 expels castrated men from the assembly of Israel.

Source: The Practice and Prohibition of Self-Castration in Early Christianity. Daniel F. Caner Vigiliae Christianae, Vol. 51, No. 4 (Nov., 1997), pp. 396-415 (article consists of 20 pages)

Source: Some followers of early Christianity considered castration as an acceptable way to counter sinful desires of the flesh. Wikipedia

Source: In Europe, when women were not permitted to sing in church or cathedral choirs in the Roman Catholic Church, boys were sometimes castrated to prevent their voices breaking at puberty and to develop a special high voice. Wikipedia

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Gee, I hope they all go to heaven as their final reward for treating other humans with such inhumanity. Must be common practice there; they have followed god's word, and god is king.

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neologist wrote:

aperson wrote:
...How can he hate ours sins but love us, and so torture us for our sins. Just take a look at those Bible quotes. They're fairly potent.

And I assume you're replying to my other posts while I am writing this.
My, you folks are busy. Get this torture thing out of your mind. You're not going to hell no matter what you do.

Ok, firstly, sorry, the torture to which I was referring was the torture of getting your head lopped off (or stoned, or whatever they do to you) for something that you had no control over. You are still trying to dodge the fact that the Bible clearly condemns something which people are born with, which God gave them.

Secondly, it's blatantly wrong to state that no-one is going to Hell. Evidence from the Good Book itself. But wait, there's more! A bit extreme, but plenty of supporting Bible quotes.

Take a look at that, and then tell me no-one goes to Hell.

Neo, I'm beginning to think that you don't know the Bible as well as you claim. Just a reminder that I can look up anything Bible-related thanks to the marvel of Google.

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Sorry I am not taking time to parse through your post, but you have

neologist wrote:

several glaring misunderstandings about what the bible really teaches. You can look these up if you want, I'll just cite them:

Humans do not have souls, they are souls. (Genesis 2:7)

Animals are souls.

The hope for the majority of mankind is life on earth, not in heaven (Psalm 37:11, quoted by Jesus at Matthew 5:5)

The consequence of sin is death (Genesis 2:17, Romans 6:23) where there is no consciousness (Ecclesiastes 9:5). So, there is no burning hell.

Ok, so is the whole Roman Catholic church wrong?

If they are, do we not go heaven? We know that the body doesn't. But I think what you're saying is that we are the souls, not bodies which possess souls. If that is the case, it is a subtle and irrelevant change. Please do take the time to sift through my contradictions, for I believe they are solid, and you won't be able to disprove them. I'm not going to let you dismiss them.

Regarding hell, all you do is reveal clear-cut contradictions in the Bible. You're leading yourself into a trap.

Neo, I think you're a good person (much better than people like real life and spendius), but you're obviously deluding yourself. Open your eyes and look at the Bible; look at Christianity. You can't keep lying to yourself.

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aperson, It's not that easy; I know, because I have siblings who continue to try to "convert" me to christ. It's tiresome, but how does one tell his own sister to "knock it off!" Her life is her belief in god.

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aperson wrote:

. . .Ok, so is the whole Roman Catholic church wrong?

Your words , , , ,

aperson wrote:

If they are, do we not go heaven? We know that the body doesn't. But I think what you're saying is that we are the souls, not bodies which possess souls. If that is the case, it is a subtle and irrelevant change. Please do take the time to sift through my contradictions, for I believe they are solid, and you won't be able to disprove them. I'm not going to let you dismiss them.

First of all: What seems reasonable? God promised Adam and Eve life on earth and warned them the consequence of sin would be death. Why would he not tell them right then and there about roasting toasting baking and broiling?

Reason: No such consequence.

aperson wrote:

Regarding hell, all you do is reveal clear-cut contradictions in the Bible. You're leading yourself into a trap.

Seeming contradictions are not clear cut and all may be explained, so name one.

aperson wrote:

Neo, I think you're a good person (much better than people like real life and spendius), but you're obviously deluding yourself. Open your eyes and look at the Bible; look at Christianity. You can't keep lying to yourself.

Thanks, but I'm just someone who believes in doing his homework.

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Why would god care if humans have free will?
It does not make sense he doesn't need people's approval or worship and he certaibly doesn't need what humans do to earth.

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ZoSo wrote:

Why would god care if humans have free will?
It does not make sense he doesn't need people's approval or worship and he certaibly doesn't need what humans do to earth.

Would you wish your children to have minds of their own - or would you prefer some well behaved puppets?

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But that's the crux of the problem; once they go to heaven, what ever happens to free will?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

But that's the crux of the problem; once they go to heaven, what ever happens to free will?

First of all, most folks will live on earth. We can know that because the job of the few who do go to heaven is to "be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth. . ." (Revelation 5:10)

In case you were wondering what they would do in heaven.

Do heavenly creatures have free will?

The one called Satan does

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In other words all those folks in heaven will be programmed robots; no negative thoughts or actions.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

aperson, It's not that easy; I know, because I have siblings who continue to try to "convert" me to christ. It's tiresome, but how does one tell his own sister to "knock it off!" Her life is her belief in god.

Yea, I think if you stay too long in the wet concrete in eventually solidifies around you.

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I'm pretty safe, because I see my siblings about 3-4 times/year, but my wife is a buddhist, and she doesn't try to convert me!

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