Lies, foibles and misrepresentations of Howard Dean.

Are Dean People NICER than Bush People?

According to the survey of 630 drivers [for Dominos Pizza in Washington, DC]... people with "Dean for President" bumper stickers on cars in their driveways tipped 22% higher than people with "Bush for President" bumper stickers. :wink:

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,245894-1-9,00.html

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Sofia wrote:

Dean, sticking to 'principles':
2:30PM--Osama should not be declared guilty.

That's not what he SAID, though.

Dean, "2:30 PM": If you're President or running for president (or in another "executive position"), it's better not to state what the verdict should be before the jury gets to speak - it's just better not to, even if the guy "is very likely to be found guilty".

Its not exactly the kind of nicety that goes down well in campaign times, but IMO, he shoulda just left it at that - and battle people like you who are trying to spin that into "Its too soon to condemn Osama."

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jjorge, thats funny ;-)

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...responding to jjorge's 'sticking to principles' statement... used the shortened form of the quote, rather than the ridiculous, blathering statement quoted...

He switched his 'principle' at breakneck speed.

Now, what word or grammatical error will you use to avoid the issue?

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Misquotes and Sofistry won't stop Dean.

The campaign of spin and character assassination will fail in the end.

"You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire,
Once the flames begin to catch, the wind will blow it higher"
-Peter Gabriel

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The results of last night's house parties are in.

Dean supporters hosted 1,443 parties with an estimated 22,000 party-goers.
Al and Tipper Gore were there, dialing into one of the 1,675 phone lines on the conference call with Governor Dean.

The campaign's financial director reports that about $500,000 was raised. Smile

Dean's total for this quarter thus far:

$15,015,707.

here's the truly astounding part, it was given by 142,156 contributors.
That's an average of $106. per person.

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Expensive Fun[/u]
Howard Dean needs to grow up.

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Didn't Dean threaten to tell his followers to stay home on election day if he's not the nominee? I've never heard of anyone doing this before.

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jjorge-- So you don't think I'm making it up, or following Karl Rove's directives... Here is an example of Dean's hot-head reputation. From the Slate article Fedral linked...
-------------------------------

The fun he enjoys having at other people's expense turns out not to be confined to Bush, Republicans, or people who have wronged Dean. Most DLC members, after all, haven't said anything unkind about Dean. His joy in sticking it to others isn't really about the target of the moment. It's about him.
Until now, this belligerence has served Dean well. In a nine-candidate field, he has distinguished himself by constantly attacking the "Washington Democrats" who stood with Bush on this or that issue. Each time an opponent counterattacks, Dean's campaign exhorts his followers to send the opponent a message by sending Dean money. "It's a polite way of saying where you can take it," Dean explained Friday.

But after a while, telling people where they can take it becomes a problem. The list of constituencies to whom you've given the finger grows. "Them" starts to outnumber "us."

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Sofia wrote:

Didn't Dean threaten to tell his followers to stay home on election day if he's not the nominee?

No.

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PS jjorge--
I'm not picking at you. Sometimes, it's hard to tell during disagreements.

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Sofia wrote:

used the shortened form of the quote, rather than the ridiculous, blathering statement quoted...

Yes, and your "shortened form" handily changed its content to make it something more easily assailable.

Sofia wrote:

Now, what word or grammatical error will you use to avoid the issue?

Oh, we're down to criticizing grammatical errors now?

Lookit, I'm peeved about this one, because I was down with you in thinking Dean had crossed the line when I read your first post here - because I took it at face value.

Now I looked up the actual quote, and it turns out he didnt say anything like the words you put in his mouth. That pisses me off no end because it doesnt just make me disagree with you - it makes me feel silly. <grins>

I came back to post the actual quote, how the NYT reported the quote, AND what the interviewer himself took away from it. And the latter guy - the actual eye witness, I'd say - directly contradicts what you would have Dean to have said. So who's avoiding the issue here?

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jjorge*197982* wrote:

Dean supporters hosted 1,443 parties with an estimated 22,000 party-goers. [..]

The campaign's financial director reports that about $500,000 was raised.

Dean's total for this quarter thus far:

$15,015,707.

here's the truly astounding part, it was given by 142,156 contributors.
That's an average of $106. per person.

That's amazing - but, to be fair, a warning is in order. The whole Dean experience may historically be pretty unique, in its extent, but it seems to be levelling off.

In September, at an identical drive, the Dean campaign also mobilised 1,400 such parties. The goal for time round had initially been 3,000 parties, but instead of doubling, they merely equalled last time's success.

By September, Dean had 450,000 online supporters, and talk was of a million by year-end. Instead, there are 554,163 now.

The fourth-quarter $$ results are amazing - but none higher than the third quarter's had been. Meanwhile, Clark raised almost as much as Dean in the fourth quarter (some 12 million including matching funds, I think) - out of nowhere.

And though Dean is the Dem frontrunner, he still only raised less than half the money Bush did.

Interesting article: CAMPAIGN JOURNAL: Party Politics.

Touches both on how the Deanies don't really fit the cliche image thats been made of them, and how inventive and, in practice, sympathetic a fundraising tool the "house parties" were - and on the apparent limits of the Dean phenomenon and strategies.

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nimh wrote:

Sofia wrote:
used the shortened form of the quote, rather than the ridiculous, blathering statement quoted...

Yes, and your "shortened form" handily changed its content to make it something more easily assailable.
Only because it is coherent. Really though. Isn't it a fair paraphrase?

Sofia wrote:
Now, what word or grammatical error will you use to avoid the issue?

Oh, we're down to criticizing grammatical errors now?
You're not even trying to read now. Nevermind.
Lookit, I'm peeved about this one, because I was down with you in thinking Dean had crossed the line when I read your first post here - because I took it at face value.

Now I looked up the actual quote, and it turns out he didnt say anything like the words you put in his mouth. That pisses me off no end because it doesnt just make me disagree with you - it makes me feel silly. <grins>
I'll come clean. I thought Dean had said it as I said--not exactly, but closer. When I saw the quote you brought, I was moderately embarrassed. I saw that I had read something into the first suspected quote that wasn't there. (As many others did, leading Dean to go schizo and suggest the death penalty.)
I came back to post the actual quote, how the NYT reported the quote, AND what the interviewer himself took away from it. And the latter guy - the actual eye witness, I'd say - directly contradicts what you would have Dean to have said. So who's avoiding the issue here?

But, nimh, I still think the initial wrong statement I attributed to Dean is an accurate parahrase of that longer, actual quote.

Anyhoo--his big mistake was switching opinions so quickly and so diametrically, IMHO. Itn it?

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Sofia wrote:

Anyhoo--his big mistake was switching opinions so quickly and so diametrically, IMHO. Itn it?

Yes <nods>.

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Here's one (in the category of lies and foibles). It's wholly inconsequential, fersure, and you have to dig through the columns of a local newspaper's article (and a series of claims that are true) to find it, but it's still dumb:

Howard Dean wrote:

I understand farm issues. Nobody else comes from a farm state.

(The Post-Crescent: Candidate packs the house)

Gephardt from Missouri, anyone - for one - hello?

Thing is, its dumb, but voters dont really care about this or that misspeak. If there is any election that taught us that, it's Bush's election over Gore. He misspoke so many times and made so many dumb little errors, but it apparently didnt affect the impact of his overall message - I'm a nice guy with a heart for values, I'll lower your taxes and I have some friends who can brief me well on foreign policy.

Rival campaigns pounce on such stuff, but as long as the paragraph's or speech's overall message makes sense to the listeners, they'll forgive a lot. Now if any other candidate can succeed in exciting voters and putting forth a clear alternative the way Dean does, then this kind of dumb stuff will start making the difference to doubting voters looking for a sensible President.

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It may make a diff to voters in other farm states-- or people who wonder if he may shoot his mouth off in a much worse manner than Bush.

<nods>

What's with Dean and his I'm-the-only-one deal? He's getting a Messiah complex.

<teehee>

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Really? I seem to recall that it is Bush who claims that god speaks to him.

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we-ell, worse than Bush ... (much worse, even) ... would be a stretch. at least i havent seen any daily logs of "deanisms" yet ...

the # of would-be entries for now seems to be single- rather than triple-digit ... i'd say we can fairly grant bush victory on this score <nods>

Lies, foibles and misrepresentations of Howard Dean.

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