Fear of a Black President

no one HAS said it.
That is the point I am trying to make and maybe I did not make it very well.
There is nothing in society that stops a black person from doing what they want to do, and being what they want to be.
But if you ask , some people will say other wise.
Some people will impose rules and 'barriers' that truly do not exist.

There are black CEOs. Black people in congress, black people in power, black people in the news, radio stations, corperate america even has a law about hiring black folks.

Why... now.. are people still living by the idea that black people can not do anything and are still victims of racism?

Now.. I know people will post individual accounts of racism between people. Like that poor man who was dragged to death behind that truck a couple of years ago.
yes. People still hate because of skin color.

They also hate and kill women for being women, babies are killed for crying, children are killed for being noisy.. wives are killed for disobeying.. and so on and so on.

My point is that is going to happen everywhere . But there is no real reason why black people can not push themselves forward in this society , and no reason to be claiming to be a victim of racism anymore.




again.. I dont mean to make anyone mad.
This is just my opinion handed out .
Please understand that.

Okay, I get you. It's the victim mentality. I've seen it.

I thought you were implying when you said they weren't "supposed to" do all those things that they were expected not to try. But you're saying it's some of the black people themselves that are holding themselves back with this mentality.

well damn woman.

You said everything I was trying to say in one sentence.
It took me two pages to try to say that

but yes. that is it. :wink:

It was more the "shocked that people like me existed in the world."

I don't know a lot about your background but you were raised by a white mother, right? And your (black) father wasn't in the picture?

You seem kind of separated from the black experience -- the positive parts of "sista."

From what I've seen here, that separation while simultaneously (negatively) judging black culture is bound to get the sort of negative response from black people that you talk about. I don't know that it has anything to do with a victim-type mindset at all.

I've long been on the anti-victim bandwagon -- got me in a lot of trouble in college (mostly about Women's-studies-type issues), and I've been in a lot of arguments with the Deaf community. I completely agree that there are self-fulfilling prophecies in some oppressed cultures.

But what struck me when I read your post is how un-connected you have stated you feel to the black community.



What does this mean... "as a black woman." White women don't qualify for welfare? More black women who qualify for welfare take it than white women?

I had Mame's question, too.

Nothing? In general? For all black people in American society today?

You really believe this?

I personally believe discrimination against blacks still exist today - in the US.

It just went underground - for both blacks and all others.

OK so I'm zooming around doing this and that and didn't read the rest of your post before responding -- later you say, sure there is racism. (Contradictory, but whatever.)

I understand the basic point you're making about the victim mentality. I just think it's naive at best to lay everything at the feet of that.

I've long been anti-victim-mentality and have had a lot of arguments in the Deaf community about that. I think it's real, I think it's limiting. I also get the origins of it and get that it's not so simple to snap out of.

I have a friend who was the basis of a Supreme Court case. She's deaf, her parents are deaf. When she was a kid (my age, so kid in the mid-70's), she was mainstreamed and given no particular assistance -- she did OK. It was a daily struggle, but she did fine.

Her parents asked for interpreters for her so she could reach her potential. Her school said no -- she's doing fine. If she was failing, if she was obviously struggling, maybe. But look at her, she's doing fine. So no, we won't.

My friend is extraordinarily smart. That was what got her to fine, in those circumstances. When she finally had interpreters, she excelled.

Some people are going to do well pretty much no matter what. And not everyone experiences either direct discrimination (cabs passing them by or worse) or indirect discrimination (generations of socio-economic disparity stranding them in dangerous, hopeless neighborhoods). But sure, there are a lot of problems out there, still. And people who complain about that aren't all just making up the problems or using them as excuses. We still have more progress to make.

We will always have more progress to make. But our society TODAY is particularly (in Canada, anyway) PC. It's like unions - no need to do your best because you're never going to get rewarded for what you do in terms of more money, extra vacations, whatever. So people just perform the minimum.

With the case of Aboriginals/First Nations here in BC it's exactly the same. Tax and education is free -- but how many go? I do understand that there are generations of being beaten down, but hey, these young people a) did not personally go through the Resident School problems and b) can DECIDE to change.

People in ghettos (and I'm not talking about housing here - I'm talking about their STATUS), no matter what colour, can and do achieve, climb out of the ghetto and succeed. So what is to stop everyone from doing that? It's a personal mindset that each person has.

For a while, I was in favour of minority rights - just to edge minorities along a little bit, give them the odds. But after 20 years of that, it's time to stop. They've had the benefits for a long time, now it's time for the pendulum to swing back to the centre.

This is likely not going to be a popular position, but I am tired of seeing handouts to groups of people and seeing not a whole lot in return. People who want something will achieve something. People who don't, won't, and no amount of handouts will change that.

which is why I have chosen to maintain a dirty mind.....

I wish snood would speak up, as his points are very valid and a concern
to all of us, not only the black community. I also would like to hear eoe's and oxynelle's point of view, if they'd chime in.

Squinney, your example at the restaurant is probably true for some of
the blacks who are used to being taken care of by the government. They
certainly do expect more of the same and then some more.

I would hope to believe that the majority of African-Americans will see
Obama as someone who can break-down the racial barriers for them in
becoming "We Americans" instead of "us blacks, them whites, browns and
others.

It isn't just a mindset, though.

I'm thinking of a study of stress and taking tests -- can go find it. It showed that black students were generally more stressed than white students, for a variety of reasons (many going back to their living situations). And that the stress adversely affected their test scores.

Also studies about diet and achievement, linked to studies of what sorts of foods are available in black neighborhoods. What is at the corner stores and stuff; especially significant when people don't have their own cars/ need to rely on public transportation.

Again, people CAN break through. People can decide that fresh veggies are worth it and take the bus an hour away to a store that carries them and schlep them back. But it's just not equivalent to the person who can hop in the car and get this stuff easily. (Again, as Lash said earlier, that's also an economic problem, and is not limited to black people.)

Things are way better than they used to be, in lots of different ways. But "nothing" holding them back? No.

Now I don't want to go too far in the other direction -- that it's hopeless, that there is nothing to be done. There are lots of things that can happen -- valuing education, fathers staying involved in their families' lives, all kinds of things. But I do bristle at the idea that "nothing" is holding black people back, in general. Lots obvious and not-so-obvious barriers remain.

Why are we only talking about black people?

There are lots of "beaten down" people out there in all colours and persuasions and all I ever see here is about blacks. Well, I'm sorry, but immigrants of all types have been beaten down, too. In Vancouver, in particular, we have a huge population of Asian (mainly Chinese, but others, too) and East Indian. Thirty years ago, you'd never have heard of an East Indian in law, or medicine. Some of the elder people still work the blueberry farms, it's true, because they have no English skills, but those farms are run by East Indians and they're treating their own people like crap.

Many of our minorities have climbed out of their ghetto - most without any help from the government.

So it can be done.

I'd like to hear about how other minorities in the USA are faring.

We're talking about blacks here because of the black presidential nominee
and the expectations the black community has of him, due to his color.

I realize that, but blacks aren't the only ones we're really talking about. And they're not the only ones that will be affected.

Guess that'll be a different thread.

Being a poor immigrant myself, I agree with you Mame

I took from what Shewolf said that her perception is that black people are not being held back because they're black. Not valuing education, not having a father involved, these are things that would hold anyone back, regardless of skin color.

Hmm... I see that, and agree that the underlying issues can and should be addressed for everyone who experiences them, not just black people. (Agreeing with Mame there, too.)

But there is a pretty direct line from slavery to situations that are still harming the black community. As a quick example, lack of fathers (as a demographic issue -- as in, anyone can lack a father, but fatherless families impacts the black community disproportionately).

I don't think that Obama will treat the black community any better than the rest of the community. He is a politician and realizes that this would lose him the white vote, if he is elected, when he ran for a second term. Once again I don't like him because he is too slick and is a Chicago politician.

The "other minorities" was kinda what I was getting at when I brought up the news references I've heard of blacks resenting hispanics because they are competing for homes and jobs.

There's so much that's been said, I can't even respond to all of it, but Wow! I love the honesty.

I think it is a mindset. I referred earlier to the womens movement and how I didn't think that if Hillary was the nominee other females would be expecting any special treatment of their issues for the female populace just because Hillary was going to be the first female president. I think that is because women have moved past the resentment.

There remains, in my opinion, a lot of resentment in a larger segment of the black population than some suspect. Maybe that's because I am in the south. I don't know. But, I see it. I hear it. I experience it in many ways.

I agree with others that have said there are many things that CAN hold someone back. I can go twenty minutes in any direction and be in the middle of poverty stricken white communities. They still graduate and have fewer white classmates end up in prison than the black communities. Is that all due to racisim? Or, is there a mindset?

I believe there are a multitude of reasons why blacks fail to achieve the potential that others seem to achieve. I think there's a thing called "culture" that should be included in the mix of what many of us call "handicaps."

I read something some time ago about the Hispanic "culture" that seems to stress hard work, but somehow lacks the motivation to do well in school. It's something to do with "expectations" of the majority that seems to hinder their "achievement" in the school environment.

I'd be curious to learn more about the inner workings of the different cultures and how they achieve success in school or work.