2
   

Fear of a Black President

 
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 12:23 am
Re: Mrs. Bill Clinton may have been the better choice for De
JTT wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
Fear of a black president?

I find myself fearing his lack of experience.

Did you vote Bush?

I fear that he is not qualified for the position.

Did you vote Bush?

I fear the dumbmasses will make an uninformed decision on election day.

The dumbasses made two of the most uniformed decisions known to mankind. Did you vote Bush?



JTTFTW.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 06:20 am
Mapleleaf wrote:

I see Obama as one who understands the power and strength of the 'hood...the people.


I thought that's what you meant.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 06:42 am
Re: Mrs. Bill Clinton may have been the better choice for De
JTT wrote:



Did you vote Bush?



Did you vote Bush?



Did you vote Bush?


Laughing Is Bush running for re-election?

H2O_MAN wrote:
Fear of a black president?

I find myself fearing his lack of experience.

I fear that he is not qualified for the position.

I fear the dumbmasses will make an uninformed decision on election day.

Skin color is nothing I fear.

There is no rational or logical reason to judge or fear any human because of their particular pigmentation alone.







Mrs. Bill Clinton may have been the better choice for Democrats . . .
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 10:06 am
Re: Mrs. Bill Clinton may have been the better choice for De
JTT wrote:
H2O_MAN wrote:
Fear of a black president?

I find myself fearing his lack of experience.

Did you vote Bush?

I fear that he is not qualified for the position.

Did you vote Bush?

I fear the dumbmasses will make an uninformed decision on election day.

The dumbasses made two of the most uniformed decisions known to mankind.

Did you vote Bush?


Bush is a dumbass!
Gore is a dumbass!
Kerry is a dumbass!

Of the three, Bush is clearly the least dumbass, so I voted for Bush.

Clinton is a dumbass!
Obama is a dumbass!
McCain is a dumbass!

Of the three, McCaine is clearly the least dumbass, so I will vote for McCain.

But dumbasses think differently. They vote for the most dumbass. It's something to do with they're being "kindred spirits."
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 10:19 am
No ican, I don't believe you are being honest. I think you vote for Bush and McCain because you want your ideas promoted, then you just call them dumbasses to distance yourself away from them when they screw up so that whne they fail, it will be because they were dumbasses, and oithing to do with the ideas that you all share.

Grow a political backbone.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 11:21 am
Diest TKO wrote:
No ican, I don't believe you are being honest. I think you vote for Bush and McCain because you want your ideas promoted, then you just call them dumbasses to distance yourself away from them when they screw up so that whne they fail, it will be because they were dumbasses, and oithing to do with the ideas that you all share.

Grow a political backbone.

T
K
O

I don't believe you are being honest. You don't appear to know what is a true conservative. A true conservative is devoted to the federal government restoring and securing our constitutional republic.

We want to change our course toward full employment of all of the following principles, and away from their increasing abandonment:

The Declaration of Independence
Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Article I. Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Wisdom circa 1778: Alexander Fraser Tytler, better known as Lord Woodhouselee (1747 - 1813)

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

President John F. Kennedy

"No American is ever made better off by pulling a fellow American down, and all of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made better off. … A rising tide raises all boats."


The Change that is Required

Alas, too many Americans have already discovered "they can vote themselves money from the public treasure." An increasing number of Americans do this by electing candidates who ignore our Constitution and promise to vote and do vote Americans "money from the public treasure." As a result we are headed from "complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

To stop and reverse this damnable trend, we must find and support candidates who shun the politics of envy for the politics of freedom: the politics of securing our God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who among the current candidates shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom? Indeed, who among all of us Americans shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom?

For us to be true Americans, we must root for everyone to become the best they can be, and we must stop seeking to suppress those who accomplish more than we do.

DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN LEGISLATING OR ADJUDICATING THE CORRUPTION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. WE WANT THAT CORRUPTION STOPPED AND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC RESTORED. HERE IS HOW WE CAN BEGIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT CHANGE.

1. Reform the Federal Government to comply strictly with those powers delegated to it by the lawfully amended USA Constitution, and begin by terminating those federal departments not expressly authorized by the USA Constitution;

2. Appoint federal judges who will be bound by the USA Constitution, and who will fulfill their oath to support the U.S.A. Constitution, and remove from office any federal judge that cites foreign law in support of his or her decisions;

3. Remove all federal limitations and impediments to the development of USA petroleum reserves to facilitate USA energy independence of foreign countries;

4. In accord with the USA Constitution, Article I, Section 8, 1st paragraph, replace the current federal tax system with one that is uniform per each and every dollar value taxed regardless of who or what is taxed;

5. Prohibit individuals from being prosecuted on the basis of what they voluntary disclose on their tax returns.

6. Limit annual federal expenditures to annual federal income;

7. Require all voters to supply proof of U.S.A. citizenship and be lawfully registered at least 13 days before voting,

8. Repeal all Campaign Finance laws;

9. Repeal all federal charities;

10. Require all federal appointments recommended by the president to be voted on by Congress within 6 months from the time the President submits a recommendation to Congress;

11. Prohibit Congress from establishing any form of theistic or atheistic religion;

12. Permit the display of both religious and non-religious artifacts on selected areas of federal government property on a first come first serve basis;

13. Require the Congress to submit to the state legislatures for their approval a Constitutional Amendment that empowers three-quarters of the state legislatures to vacate USA Supreme Court decisions.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 01:44 am
ican711nm wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
No ican, I don't believe you are being honest. I think you vote for Bush and McCain because you want your ideas promoted, then you just call them dumbasses to distance yourself away from them when they screw up so that whne they fail, it will be because they were dumbasses, and nothing to do with the ideas that you all share.

Grow a political backbone.

T
K
O

I don't believe you are being honest. You don't appear to know what is a true conservative. A true conservative is devoted to the federal government restoring and securing our constitutional republic.

We want to change our course toward full employment of all of the following principles, and away from their increasing abandonment:

The Declaration of Independence
Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Article I. Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Wisdom circa 1778: Alexander Fraser Tytler, better known as Lord Woodhouselee (1747 - 1813)

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

President John F. Kennedy

"No American is ever made better off by pulling a fellow American down, and all of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made better off. … A rising tide raises all boats."


The Change that is Required

Alas, too many Americans have already discovered "they can vote themselves money from the public treasure." An increasing number of Americans do this by electing candidates who ignore our Constitution and promise to vote and do vote Americans "money from the public treasure." As a result we are headed from "complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

To stop and reverse this damnable trend, we must find and support candidates who shun the politics of envy for the politics of freedom: the politics of securing our God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who among the current candidates shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom? Indeed, who among all of us Americans shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom?

For us to be true Americans, we must root for everyone to become the best they can be, and we must stop seeking to suppress those who accomplish more than we do.

DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN LEGISLATING OR ADJUDICATING THE CORRUPTION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. WE WANT THAT CORRUPTION STOPPED AND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC RESTORED. HERE IS HOW WE CAN BEGIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT CHANGE.

1. Reform the Federal Government to comply strictly with those powers delegated to it by the lawfully amended USA Constitution, and begin by terminating those federal departments not expressly authorized by the USA Constitution;

2. Appoint federal judges who will be bound by the USA Constitution, and who will fulfill their oath to support the U.S.A. Constitution, and remove from office any federal judge that cites foreign law in support of his or her decisions;

3. Remove all federal limitations and impediments to the development of USA petroleum reserves to facilitate USA energy independence of foreign countries;

4. In accord with the USA Constitution, Article I, Section 8, 1st paragraph, replace the current federal tax system with one that is uniform per each and every dollar value taxed regardless of who or what is taxed;

5. Prohibit individuals from being prosecuted on the basis of what they voluntary disclose on their tax returns.

6. Limit annual federal expenditures to annual federal income;

7. Require all voters to supply proof of U.S.A. citizenship and be lawfully registered at least 13 days before voting,

8. Repeal all Campaign Finance laws;

9. Repeal all federal charities;

10. Require all federal appointments recommended by the president to be voted on by Congress within 6 months from the time the President submits a recommendation to Congress;

11. Prohibit Congress from establishing any form of theistic or atheistic religion;

12. Permit the display of both religious and non-religious artifacts on selected areas of federal government property on a first come first serve basis;

13. Require the Congress to submit to the state legislatures for their approval a Constitutional Amendment that empowers three-quarters of the state legislatures to vacate USA Supreme Court decisions.


Nothing you posted refuted what I said. In fact, you list illustrates my point quite well: You call McCain a dumbass, but will vote for him regardless. You are more concerned with your ideas going through, but you won't associate your ideas with your candidate because of they fail, then you'd have to defend your ideas.

In all likelihood, you'd probably just say McCain executed them wrong, or that he wasn't a "Good" conservative. I'm willing to bet that you've got all your excuses ready. You think conservatism is perfect, but are too afraid to let it be tested. If you can't find a candidate to promote the very defined conservative doctrine you advertise, isn't that just a tell that it's too impractical.

Anyways, the above in red, your transition into your rant, is totally irrelevant, and a textbook red herring. I made no mention of what a conservative is or is not. It seems like you were going to type the same thing no matter what I wrote.

In fact it reminds me of a little red herring of McCain's. When Ellen DeGeneres asked McCain why he thought she should not be able to marry because she was gay, he replied that he thinks she deserves to be happy. Not really an answer...
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 10:54 am
Diest TKO wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
No ican, I don't believe you are being honest. I think you vote for Bush and McCain because you want your ideas promoted, then you just call them dumbasses to distance yourself away from them when they screw up so that whne they fail, it will be because they were dumbasses, and nothing to do with the ideas that you all share.

Grow a political backbone.

T
K
O

I don't believe you are being honest. You don't appear to know what is a true conservative. A true conservative is devoted to the federal government restoring and securing our constitutional republic.

We want to change our course toward full employment of all of the following principles, and away from their increasing abandonment:

Quote:
(inserted today 07/11/2008)
Quote:
My Version of The Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1 - 20:14

And God spoke all these words, saying:
I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before Me; thou shall not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shall not bow down unto them , nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the Lord thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, nor thy wife, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid- servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it.

Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

Thou shalt not commit murder.

Thou shalt not commit adultery or fornicate.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's.

The Declaration of Independence
Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

The Constitution of the United States of America
Effective as of March 4, 1789
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Article I. Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Wisdom circa 1778: Alexander Fraser Tytler, better known as Lord Woodhouselee (1747 - 1813)

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

President John F. Kennedy

"No American is ever made better off by pulling a fellow American down, and all of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made better off. … A rising tide raises all boats."


The Change that is Required

Alas, too many Americans have already discovered "they can vote themselves money from the public treasure." An increasing number of Americans do this by electing candidates who ignore our Constitution and promise to vote and do vote Americans "money from the public treasure." As a result we are headed from "complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from dependency back to bondage."

To stop and reverse this damnable trend, we must find and support candidates who shun the politics of envy for the politics of freedom: the politics of securing our God given rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who among the current candidates shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom? Indeed, who among all of us Americans shuns the politics of envy for the politics of freedom?

For us to be true Americans, we must root for everyone to become the best they can be, and we must stop seeking to suppress those who accomplish more than we do.

DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN LEGISLATING OR ADJUDICATING THE CORRUPTION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. WE WANT THAT CORRUPTION STOPPED AND OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC RESTORED. HERE IS HOW WE CAN BEGIN TO ACCOMPLISH THAT CHANGE.

1. Reform the Federal Government to comply strictly with those powers delegated to it by the lawfully amended USA Constitution, and begin by terminating those federal departments not expressly authorized by the USA Constitution;

2. Appoint federal judges who will be bound by the USA Constitution, and who will fulfill their oath to support the U.S.A. Constitution, and remove from office any federal judge that cites foreign law in support of his or her decisions;

3. Remove all federal limitations and impediments to the development of USA petroleum reserves to facilitate USA energy independence of foreign countries;

4. In accord with the USA Constitution, Article I, Section 8, 1st paragraph, replace the current federal tax system with one that is uniform per each and every dollar value taxed regardless of who or what is taxed;

5. Prohibit individuals from being prosecuted on the basis of what they voluntary disclose on their tax returns.

6. Limit annual federal expenditures to annual federal income;

7. Require all voters to supply proof of U.S.A. citizenship and be lawfully registered at least 13 days before voting,

8. Repeal all Campaign Finance laws;

9. Repeal all federal charities;

10. Require all federal appointments recommended by the president to be voted on by Congress within 6 months from the time the President submits a recommendation to Congress;

11. Prohibit Congress from establishing any form of theistic or atheistic religion;

12. Permit the display of both religious and non-religious artifacts on selected areas of federal government property on a first come first serve basis;

13. Require the Congress to submit to the state legislatures for their approval a Constitutional Amendment that empowers three-quarters of the state legislatures to vacate USA Supreme Court decisions.


Nothing you posted refuted what I said. In fact, you list illustrates my point quite well: You call McCain a dumbass, but will vote for him regardless. You are more concerned with your ideas going through, but you won't associate your ideas with your candidate because of they fail, then you'd have to defend your ideas.

Gad, your statement is stupid! I told you that of the three candidates, Clinton, Obama, and McCain, McCain is the least dumbass. If you think there is another candidate better than these three, name him or her. Of course I don't associate my ideas with candidates who do not advocate these ideas.

In all likelihood, you'd probably just say McCain executed them wrong, or that he wasn't a "Good" conservative. I'm willing to bet that you've got all your excuses ready. You think conservatism is perfect, but are too afraid to let it be tested. If you can't find a candidate to promote the very defined conservative doctrine you advertise, isn't that just a tell that it's too impractical.

Your statement is looney! McCain is not a conservative. He is merely less objectionable than the other candidates. The Libertarian candidate, Bob Barr, advocates almost the same principles, but is too unlikely to be elected over the three dumbasses, so I think it prudent to vote for the least dumbass, FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO DO WHAT LITTLE I CAN TO ENSURE A WORSE DUMBASS IS NOT ELECTED.

Anyways, the above in red, your transition into your rant, is totally irrelevant, and a textbook red herring. I made no mention of what a conservative is or is not. It seems like you were going to type the same thing no matter what I wrote.

The above in red is totally RELEVANT and a textbook example of what WE SHOULD BE DEBATING.


In fact it reminds me of a little red herring of McCain's. When Ellen DeGeneres asked McCain why he thought she should not be able to marry because she was gay, he replied that he thinks she deserves to be happy. Not really an answer...

Ahhh, we agree on something! That really was not an answer by McCain.

Likewise your response here is even a better example of what is really not an answer. In your case, your response is not only sophism it is irrational sophism. You poor fellow, I realize you are incapable of comprehending your own irrational sophisms, so I will merely provide you a definition of sophism and hope someone close to you can help you come to understand that definition and eventually learn why your sophism is indeed irrational.


sophism: 1. an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid; (especially) such an argument used for deception, disputation, or the display of intellectual brilliance; 2. specious reasoning.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 11:02 am
When did I say McCain was a conservative ican?

You are all over the place. Focus. Plus I don't care what you "think" should be debated here, the simple fact is that you posted something altogether unrelated to what I did.

As for choosing to not vote for Barr, I guess this kind of makes you look like a hypocrite when advertising your ideas.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 11:07 am
ican quoted :

Quote:
President John F. Kennedy

"No American is ever made better off by pulling a fellow American down, and all of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made better off. … A rising tide raises all boats."


listening to wallstreet news this morning , i get the impression that some boats are leaking and some have sunk already .
perhaps some of those "boats" were not expecting a rising tide ?
were the bilge pumps not working ?
hbg


from wiki :

Quote:
A bilge pump is a pump to remove bilge water. Because fuel can end up in the bilge, electric bilge pumps are designed not to cause sparks. Electric bilge pumps are often fitted with float switches which turn on the pump when the bilge fills to a set level. Because bilge pumps frequently fail, a backup pump is advised. The primary pump should be located at the lowest point of the bilge, while the secondary pump should be located somewhat higher. This activates the secondary pump only when the primary pump is overwhelmed and keeps the secondary pump free of the debris in the bilge that tends to clog the primary pump.[
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 12:03 pm
hamburger wrote:
ican quoted :

Quote:
President John F. Kennedy

"No American is ever made better off by pulling a fellow American down, and all of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made better off. … A rising tide raises all boats."


listening to wallstreet news this morning , i get the impression that some boats are leaking and some have sunk already .
perhaps some of those "boats" were not expecting a rising tide ?
were the bilge pumps not working ?
hbg
...

You have missed the complete meaning of President Kennedy's point.

Currently, we are a nation whose less wealthy Americans have increasingly sought to make themselves better off by pulling, fellow more wealthy Americans down. This effort to pull fellow Americans down is lowering our tide and more and more of our boats.

So we have more evidence that us Americans are not ever made better off by pulling fellow Americans down, and none of us are made better off whenever any one of us is made worse off.

Pernicious envy of those doing better than ourselves can only result in all of us doing worse. Rooting for those doing better than ourselves can only result in more of us doing better.

Using government to steal from some and give some of what is stolen to others, helps government increase its power and be corrupted into incompetence and fraud thereby. I trust those pursuing profitable enterprises far more than I trust those pursuing powerful agencies.

If it weren't for the wealthy, few of us would have a way to support our families and become wealthier. In my business, I would not have been able to achieve my engineering and later aviation dreams if it weren't for those able to afford to purchase my engineering and aviation services.

Remember:
Quote:
...
God spoke all these words, saying:
...
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 12:13 pm
ican, How does wealthy Americans get "pulled down?" The only Americans being pulled down are those in the middle class and the poor; they've not even kept up with inflation during the past seven years, but the wealthy, the CEOs, who used to make about 35% of the average worker now earns over 400%.

You either don't understand math, or are ignorant of the struggles of many Americans of today.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 01:08 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, How does wealthy Americans get "pulled down?" The only Americans being pulled down are those in the middle class and the poor; they've not even kept up with inflation during the past seven years, but the wealthy, the CEOs, who used to make about 35% of the average worker now earns over 400%.

You either don't understand math, or are ignorant of the struggles of many Americans of today.

I'm a member of the lower third of the middle class, and I'm rooting for Gates and Dell, for example, to double their wealth ASAP the same way they obtained their current wealth. I don't give a damn whether the top wealthy earn 1,000 or 1,000,000 or 1,000,000,000 times what I earn. I do give damn whether or not they continue to accomplish more than I do. I want them to continue!

By the way, I was ecstatic when I learned that in less than the last 50 years, the total number of billionaires increased from 13 to 500.

The wealthy get pulled down when they suffer a reduction in profits. If that reduction continues long enough, the wealthy suffer loses. If the losses continue long enough, the wealthy become bankrupt. If the wealthy suffer all this, so do their employees and investors: reduction of incomes; loss of incomes; loss of jobs. If the wealthy suffer all this, there are fewer products for me to buy. If the wealthy suffer this, less is invested by them in making life better. If all that happens, I am more easily victimized by a growing perpetual power seeking government.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 01:17 pm
ican wrote: The wealthy get pulled down when they suffer a reduction in profits. If that reduction continues long enough, the wealthy suffer loses. If the losses continue long enough, the wealthy become bankrupt. If the wealthy suffer all this, so do their employees and investors: reduction of incomes; loss of incomes; loss of jobs. If the wealthy suffer all this, there are fewer products for me to buy. If the wealthy suffer this, less is invested by them in making life better. If all that happens, I am more easily victimized by a growing perpetual power seeking government.

********************

Your imagination exceeds your ignorance. You wrote "...if the wealthy suffer all this..." What's "all this?" You probably don't remember Bush's rhetoric about his tax cuts creating more jobs. Is this all part of "all this?" More than 400,000 lost their jobs since January of this year, and 62,000 last month. That's job creation like god's creation; it has no evidence.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 01:52 pm
CI, don't tell the right that. They will demand even bigger tax cuts for the wealthy.

Wachovia Bank just hired a new CEO, who had no experience running an organization even close to the size of this bank, who stands to start at $28 M per annum. I wonder how he will get by.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 02:09 pm
It's obscene, but ican wants to protect their income.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 02:33 pm
A government that can confiscate the property of the wealthy for no other reason that 'they don't deserve to be so wealthy' is a government that can and will take whatever it wants from you.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 02:33 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican wrote: The wealthy get pulled down when they suffer a reduction in profits. If that reduction continues long enough, the wealthy suffer loses. If the losses continue long enough, the wealthy become bankrupt. If the wealthy suffer all this, so do their employees and investors: reduction of incomes; loss of incomes; loss of jobs. If the wealthy suffer all this, there are fewer products for me to buy. If the wealthy suffer this, less is invested by them in making life better. If all that happens, I am more easily victimized by a growing perpetual power seeking government.

********************

Your imagination exceeds your ignorance. You wrote "...if the wealthy suffer all this..." What's "all this?" You probably don't remember Bush's rhetoric about his tax cuts creating more jobs. Is this all part of "all this?" More than 400,000 lost their jobs since January of this year, and 62,000 last month. That's job creation like god's creation; it has no evidence.

Bush's tax cuts did create more jobs until the price of crude oil skyrocketed. The price of crude oil skyrocketed because the American Congress decided by default to grant foreign crude oil drillers and lifters an increasing virtual monopoly of crude oil drilling and lifting. That monopoly could have been reduced by more oil drilling and lifting in domestic areas known to have significant oil reserves. Our Congress continues to stifle that, and continues to aid and abet foreign oil drillers and lifters.

While you want to blame Bush, most of us know damn well who the real culprits are. Why do you think the approval rating of Congress is now lower than it has ever been: 9%? Oh, you probably want to blame that on Bush too, because his approval rating is much higher. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 03:24 pm
Advocate wrote:
CI, don't tell the right that. They will demand even bigger tax cuts for the wealthy.
...

Right you are! I demand that the tax rate per dollar of income be made UNIFORM throughout the country.
Quote:
USA Constitution (1789),
Article I. Section 8, first paragraph:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be UNIFORM throughout the United States


Quote:
Amendment XVI (1913)
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration.


In simpler words, If my tax rate = 8% on gross income, then everyone else's tax rate IS REQUIRED BY LAW to be 8% on gross income.

If Bill Gates' tax rate = 35% on gross income, then everyone else's tax rate IS REQUIRED BY LAW to be = 35% on gross income.

I prefer 8%, but 13% is tolerable even though I end up with a +5% tax rate increase.

Let's stop demanding that our government help us steal from each other!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2008 03:34 pm
Quote:
Exodus, Chapter 20

And God spoke all these words, saying:

...

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house; thou shall not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his man servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is thy neighbour's.

...
0 Replies
 
 

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